Mafia: Oakwood Mafia [11-6-12] [ENDGAME - Town Victory!] - Page 7

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Thread: Oakwood Mafia [11-6-12] [ENDGAME - Town Victory!]

  1. #91
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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-20-12] [Day 1 - The Sleeping Giant]

    Update pending.

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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-20-12] [Day 1 - The Sleeping Giant]



    "Did you make this?"

    The woman's delicate fingers gently ran over the detailed, intense brush strokes of the large painting, lingering on the bright yellow sun shining down happily on purple flowers - violets, if she wasn't mistaken. The painting wasn't particularly flashy, but something about it gave off a comforting air that drew the woman's attention to it. It felt warm, like drinking hot chocolate in the winter or snuggling under a blanket on a cold winter day. It reminded her of better times, happier times, when her father was still alive.

    The old man standing next to her smiled, picking up on her emotions. "No, dear," he said softly, gazing momentarily at the painting hanging on the wall of the Governor's office. "This was made by your father. He spent many of his days in here, working on it. He never spoke to anyone about it, and I didn't find out until recently. It was his secret hobby." He watched the woman's face carefully for her reaction, wondering if he had said too much.

    "I never knew that," whispered the woman, touching the paint again, then pulling back as if she had been shocked. "My father... there are many things about him I don't know. He wasn't close to me when he was alive - he was too focused on his job as Governor. There were times I talked to him, asked him if he would spend time with me and my brother, but he always said he was too busy. He spent a lot of time in here, doing God knows what. Probably just staring out the window and thinking."

    The woman stopped, trembling slightly. She realized she had probably said too much and revealed details that nobody really cared about. Ever so slightly, she let her hand fall to her side. Silence reigned across the hall as the two stood, neither one doing anything in particular, simply staring at the painting on the wall pretending to be preoccupied.

    "I'm sorry," the woman said at last, the words barely audible as they passed through her lips. She closed her eyes and turned away, walking down the hall with quick, pained strides.

    The old man watched her walk, wanting to call out to her, to stand by her side and hold her and comfort her. He didn't move. There was nothing he could say, nothing he could do the ease her pain.

    ---

    Bright orange and golden leaves drifted lazily through the autumn breeze. They swept around the silhouette of a young man donned in a red plaid shirt and loose, baggy jeans. He watched the sun set silently, reflecting on the mistakes he had made. He wondered if what he had done had been enough to stop a tragedy from happening. He had tried his best, but in the end, he might not be able to save them. Not quite.

    ---

    "I swear, it wasn't me!"

    The young woman struggled fiercely, lashing out in fury at the men surrounding her on both sides, keeping a close grip on both her arms. She looked hopefully into the crowd, looking for someone to save her, but the other people in the city just looked on with blank and somewhat worried expressions, not sure how to feel. Tears brimmed in the woman's eyes when she realized nobody would be coming to her rescue. Not any of her friends, or her colleagues or workmates. Everyone stood like a stone, staring out at the woman being arrested.

    At this point, the woman was nearly in tears, scanning the crowd for someone with an expression on their face, someone that might believe she wasn't one of the killers. She wondered briefly if someone else had seen her in the Governor's office and assumed she had been poking around the crime scene for shady reasons, even if that was not the case. There were many reasons to go into the Governor's office that had nothing to do with the crime. That was blasphemous, though; there weren't any hidden cameras that she knew about and since it was three stories off the ground, she doubted anyone could've looked through the window.

    The crowd was hollering now, completely losing their calm. Many of them were shouting for an execution, some shouting very graphic and obscene things. No one believed she was innocent. One of the marshalls grabbed a gun and pointed it at the woman, his hands shaking as he tried to steady it. He was obviously quite nervous and not completely convinced the woman was innocent.

    "Go ahead," she murmured, her voice barely a whisper. "I'm not afraid of death anymore." She spoke this more confidently, lifting her head to look the marshall right in the eye. "I hope you know what you're doing, however. You're making a huge mistake, one that you'll never let go."

    The marshall looked at her, trying to gauge her reaction. "All right," he muttered, slowly lowering his gun. "I'm trusting you for now. Don't let me down."




    It is now Night 1.
    This phase will end Monday, October 22nd, at 9:30 PM EDT.

  3. #93
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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-20-12] [Day 1 - The Sleeping Giant]

    Thank you for unvoting me, everyone. However, I know I will be dead by the end of this phase, so I'm afraid you'll have to make do without a doctor. I already sent the protection PM for Human, as he is the only player I trust right now, even though his role isn't that great. I wish you guys luck. :)

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    URPG! GliscorMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-21-12] [Night 1 - Memories]

    So, my gauge on what happened yesterday.

    @Zenax; came off incredibly, almost suspiciously strong. Sure you're supposed to pressure people, see what happens when you question them. That's what D1 is all about. But actually going as far as to lynch someone? That's a little too strong. Sure we have misslynches to use, but why use them now, when a wrong move could put us far behind the mafia from the start? The voting process of D1 and the Mafia's kill on N1 tells you how to act on D2. The votes tell you things, not the death that results from a lynching. Most of the time, dead people can't talk. It's senseless to kill someone D1.

    And @Akuraito; and @Sputnik; were both wrong about my reason for voting, and here's a little explanation. Using Meta is actually helpful, occasionally, (especially against those Dragon-types) even if it is frowned on. I also didn't vote for the sake of breaking the tie (although it was a factor). My intention was to spark a little broader of a conversation instead of just focusing on one person (as if that worked).

    Short of confusing the Mafia with a WIFOM argument, we should really be looking at @Feralize; and @Hitomi;. Fera jumped on a bandwagon, with little to contribute. The lynch, at that point, would've happened anyways so her vote was unnecessary. Nearly the reverse is true for Hitomi. She threw suspicion onto Sputnik without physically voting, possibly trying to lie low. To me, these are red flags and seem scummy.

    Looking forward to rebukes/retributions/reprisals...
    Last edited by GliscorMan; 22nd October 2012 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Formatting...

    Credit to HikaruIzumi for the awesome avatar!

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    カジカ Zeems's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-21-12] [Night 1 - Memories]

    Doctor ≠ Mafia, GliscorMan. XD No one has counterclaimed me yet, and it will soon be proven that I am really the doctor.

  6. #96
    Rock of Ages! Zenax's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-21-12] [Night 1 - Memories]

    Quote Originally Posted by GliscorMan View Post
    @Zenax; came off incredibly, almost suspiciously strong. Sure you're supposed to pressure people, see what happens when you question them. That's what D1 is all about. But actually going as far as to lynch someone? That's a little too strong.
    Please extrapolate on this, because I don't see how withholding information from the town is being a little too strong.

    Sure we have misslynches to use, but why use them now,
    You're saying this like lynches are done randomly, with absolutely no consensus on the lynchee, and assuming that lynching on day 1 will always be a mislynch, which they are not.

    when a wrong move could put us far behind the mafia from the start?
    Except that this is what not lynching on day 1 is. Sure, you can be sure that no townie will be lynched, but no mafia will be lynched, either, and waiting for day 2 to start lynching is dumb when you could do it on day 1. If there is a player that is generally agreed upon to be worthy of lynching (i.e. that they have a majority of votes on them), then not lynching them is only being counterproductive.

    The voting process of D1 and the Mafia's kill on N1 tells you how to act on D2.
    The voting process of Day 1 and the other players' posts can also tell you how to act on Day 1. You don't need a mafia kill for that. Not to mention that pressuring people is pretty ineffective when the pressured player knows that they will unvote afterward if they have a satisfactory response because there's some kind of consensus saying that lynching on Day 1 is bad.

    The votes tell you things, not the death that results from a lynching. Most of the time, dead people can't talk. It's senseless to kill someone D1.
    I disagree entirely. Both are important factors, because the alignment of the player is an essential piece of information you need to have if you want to analyze a bandwagon. That's why Janitor is essentially an anti-town role.

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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-21-12] [Night 1 - Memories]

    Quote Originally Posted by GliscorMan View Post
    Short of confusing the Mafia with a WIFOM argument, we should really be looking at @Feralize; and @Hitomi;. Fera jumped on a bandwagon, with little to contribute. The lynch, at that point, would've happened anyways so her vote was unnecessary. Nearly the reverse is true for Hitomi. She threw suspicion onto Sputnik without physically voting, possibly trying to lie low. To me, these are red flags and seem scummy.
    Did anyone have much of anything more to contribute to that bandwagon? No, it was Day 1. We had our suspicions and that was it. What I aimed to accomplish with my vote was to find out Sputnik's roleclaim. She did a very imprudent thing in just announcing it to everyone, and that cannot be pinned on me.

    Votes are never useless or unnecessary. They give you information, even if the person is simply jumping on a bandwagon. I chose to take a stand and vote not only to give others an idea of what I was thinking, but to make my voice heard by participating. It wasn't wasted effort.

  8. #98
    URPG! GliscorMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-21-12] [Night 1 - Memories]

    Here we go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Doctor ≠ Mafia, GliscorMan. XD No one has counterclaimed me yet, and it will soon be proven that I am really the doctor.
    I never said, or even implied that you were Mafia. Just that you were wrong in your initial assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GliscorMan View Post
    Zenax came off incredibly, almost suspiciously strong. Sure you're supposed to pressure people, see what happens when you question them. That's what D1 is all about. But actually going as far as to lynch someone? That's a little too strong.
    Please extrapolate on this, because I don't see how withholding information from the town is being a little too strong.
    Extrapolate? Sure. You see it as withholding information, I see it as senseless killing which solves less than it reveals. What's the use of a player who's randomly lynched, if they're dead? The odds of hitting a Mafia get better with the progression of the game, but at the beginning, they're absolutely abysmal. There's no PR checks, very little opportunity to scumhunt and no Vigilante or even Mafia kills to work off of. If we had any of that, for example, if it was a true-night start, things would be different. But it isn't, so we have nothing to work off of except for a little scumhunting at the beginning, which is the point of voting, not lynching.

    You're saying this like lynches are done randomly, with absolutely no consensus on the lynchee, and assuming that lynching on day 1 will always be a mislynch, which they are not.
    Majority =/= consensus. A consensus of 3 or 4 people, 2 of which jumped on it as a bandwagon does not constitute a common consensus at all. And I am not assuming that the D1 lynch always results in a mislynch, I'm stating that it is the most common and statistically viable outcome. The odds lessen the less players are left in the game. Conversely, the odds of the Mafia successfully killing a power role N1 is less than the odds of hitting another, less powerful towny or third party.

    Except that this is what not lynching on day 1 is. Sure, you can be sure that no townie will be lynched, but no mafia will be lynched, either, and waiting for day 2 to start lynching is dumb when you could do it on day 1. If there is a player that is generally agreed upon to be worthy of lynching (i.e. that they have a majority of votes on them), then not lynching them is only being counterproductive.
    You're using circular reasoning here always wanted to call someone out with a logical fallacy. The odds are still against us. And, as I said, the conversations that start are what helps you figure out who's Mafia and who's Town. It gives you an idea of who the scum is. Counterproductive? No. It's just as productive as lynching the person, and it comes at less of a risk.

    The voting process of Day 1 and the other players' posts can also tell you how to act on Day 1. You don't need a mafia kill for that. Not to mention that pressuring people is pretty ineffective when the pressured player knows that they will unvote afterward if they have a satisfactory response because there's some kind of consensus saying that lynching on Day 1 is bad.
    My case is general, not specific. If they're not worried, because they think they're going to be unvoted, things become obvious. This is when you use a cop check or, in extreme cases, go forward with the lynch. It's a case-by-case business. What we did was start a bandwagon (my bad, personally) and attack a singular person relentlessly. That person cracked under the pressure, and we possibly have a dead doctor on our hands. If we spread the votes out, fluctuating and changing who we're threatening to lynch, then we find more things out than if we just barrel through.

    I disagree entirely. Both are important factors, because the alignment of the player is an essential piece of information you need to have if you want to analyze a bandwagon. That's why Janitor is essentially an anti-town role.
    I didn't mention a Janitor at all. Finding the alignment of a player is why we have the cop, the watcher and other roles, is it not? You don't need to randomly lynch someone D1 to use those roles (although that's a good idea for a separate game...).

    Conclusion: We differ on playing styles drastically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feralize View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GliscorMan View Post
    Short of confusing the Mafia with a WIFOM argument, we should really be looking at @Feralize; and @Hitomi;. Fera jumped on a bandwagon, with little to contribute. The lynch, at that point, would've happened anyways so her vote was unnecessary. Nearly the reverse is true for Hitomi. She threw suspicion onto Sputnik without physically voting, possibly trying to lie low. To me, these are red flags and seem scummy.
    Did anyone have much of anything more to contribute to that bandwagon? No, it was Day 1. We had our suspicions and that was it. What I aimed to accomplish with my vote was to find out Sputnik's roleclaim. She did a very imprudent thing in just announcing it to everyone, and that cannot be pinned on me.
    By the looks of it, Sputnik was going to claim anyways. There was too much pressure and, despite claiming in-thread being a rash move, it may have saved us a Doctor. I'm not pinning that on you, I'm pinning you for scum because you continued the bandwagon. This, in my experience, is a scummy move unless there's an excessive amount of evidence. Which there wasn't.

    Votes are never useless or unnecessary. They give you information, even if the person is simply jumping on a bandwagon. I chose to take a stand and vote not only to give others an idea of what I was thinking, but to make my voice heard by participating. It wasn't wasted effort.
    Why I said it was unnecessary was because it was a D1 bandwagon. Other bandwagons are understandable, but bandwagonning with no evidence is not something to be taken lightly. Just making your voice heard, with nothing to say is something that is characteristically scum. If you hadn't said anything, it would've been all just as well. The pressure was still there and unyielding.

    Conclusion: Feralize has not provided a stable argument. Bandwagon =/= logical excuse. In fact, it's a logical fallacy.

    Credit to HikaruIzumi for the awesome avatar!

  9. #99
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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-21-12] [Night 1 - Memories]

    I have to say that I don't disagree with Zenax's methods. It's not necessarily senseless to kill someone D1--I have been in games before where we've lynched a mafia member on D1, giving us a nice head start. However, common sense is key (obviously) when using pressure to get information out of someone. Zenax and Feral put just the right amount of pressure on, and you'll notice that Feral and Aku backed off after Sputnik role claimed. I think that what happened during this phase was a good example of pressing for information without riding the bandwagon into something hasty.

    I also don't necessarily think that Hitomi's actions are suspicious. Given the late state of the phase, voting randomly without a reason would have been pointless and a bit suspicious, and voting for Sputnik would come off as kind of trigger-happy and unnecessary. She was asking questions that needed to be asked without making a decision one way or another, which is basically the same thing I was doing, except I got an early random vote in.

    FoS is on the ones who have been inactive and/or haven't contributed much to the discussion, even though I've seen you reading the thread. *squinty eyes*
    Last edited by Laterose; 22nd October 2012 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Added a point.

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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-21-12] [Night 1 - Memories]

    This Day 1 Lynching controversy is getting old. We have this debate in every game.

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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-21-12] [Night 1 - Memories]

    Update pending.

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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-21-12] [Night 1 - Memories]

    Quote Originally Posted by GliscorMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Feralize View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GliscorMan View Post
    Short of confusing the Mafia with a WIFOM argument, we should really be looking at @Feralize; and @Hitomi;. Fera jumped on a bandwagon, with little to contribute. The lynch, at that point, would've happened anyways so her vote was unnecessary. Nearly the reverse is true for Hitomi. She threw suspicion onto Sputnik without physically voting, possibly trying to lie low. To me, these are red flags and seem scummy.
    Did anyone have much of anything more to contribute to that bandwagon? No, it was Day 1. We had our suspicions and that was it. What I aimed to accomplish with my vote was to find out Sputnik's roleclaim. She did a very imprudent thing in just announcing it to everyone, and that cannot be pinned on me.
    By the looks of it, Sputnik was going to claim anyways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    My situation is so ironic and extremely irritating, so I think it would be hilarious if I didn't roleclaim in thread. All I will say is that you guys will regret lynching me, assuming this situation stays. XD
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    You know what, I just can't bring myself to claim in thread. I would rather you guys lynch me than the mafia kill me... And no, I am not the fool. XD
    And she didn't claim.

    There was too much pressure and, despite claiming in-thread being a rash move, it may have saved us a Doctor. I'm not pinning that on you, I'm pinning you for scum because you continued the bandwagon. This, in my experience, is a scummy move unless there's an excessive amount of evidence. Which there wasn't.
    She would have been lynched had I said nothing. It really makes no difference at this stage, because she's dead either way and I would have looked bad either way (pressuring her or staying quiet and lurking on D1).
    Votes are never useless or unnecessary. They give you information, even if the person is simply jumping on a bandwagon. I chose to take a stand and vote not only to give others an idea of what I was thinking, but to make my voice heard by participating. It wasn't wasted effort.
    Why I said it was unnecessary was because it was a D1 bandwagon. Other bandwagons are understandable, but bandwagonning with no evidence is not something to be taken lightly. Just making your voice heard, with nothing to say is something that is characteristically scum. If you hadn't said anything, it would've been all just as well. The pressure was still there and unyielding.
    I think that her poor reaction to pressure and lack of any sort of defense was pretty solid for D1 reasoning. It wasn't a game of mindless follow-the-leader, I legitimately suspected her.
    Conclusion: Feralize has not provided a stable argument. Bandwagon =/= logical excuse. In fact, it's a logical fallacy.
    Zenax pressures Sputnik --> She refuses to claim, making the situation worse --> people are suspicious. It's a very simple path of thought, and I actually gave decent reasoning which you seem to be conveniently ignoring.

  13. #103
    shsl music club member Catspring's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-21-12] [Night 1 - Memories]



    The middle aged man watched the sun dip below the horizon, casting a golden glow on the land before him. A vast expanse of yellow-green grass spread out before him like an ocean of earth, and sparse trees were scattered around the wide field, coming together to form a thick forest in the distance. This spot was in the middle of nowhere, but it was a common getaway for him. It was somewhere he could go to relax. It was a recent find of his; in his rough, busy life he had never had time to relax before, instead struggling for his own survival. Survival of the fittest - that's what they always told him.

    He remembered his childhood, not a pleasant experience. He was always beaten down, the smallest one of his family. He had to learn to fight for himself, and it wasn't easy. This had prepared him a great deal for the real world, where everyone seemed to be a hell of a lot tougher. He had gotten a job as a bartender a few years ago, one of the worst decisions of his life. Eventually he snapped and got into a fight at the bar, causing him to be fired, kicked out, and banned from the facility. He was forced to live in a cramped apartment building with sweaty, smelly kids running all over the place screaming and hollering while he tried to get a decent night's rest on the makeshift bed - really just a mattress, some blankets, and an old pillow that used to be white but had since faded to a dullish cream.

    Reflecting on this, the man pulled something out of his pocket, watching its silver edges catch in the sunlight. It was a coin; not just any coin, but a special one. Given to him by an old friend of his, one that he may never see again. He forgot exactly but it was called, but they didn't print these anymore, and they were quite a rarity. Not that that meant anything to him; it just reminded him of better days when he wasn't so gruff. When he actually had a heart.

    It wasn't until the sun had just dipped below the peaks of the trees that the man heard the first gunshot. It rang out from far off in the woods, echoing around the lofty canopies of the forest and leaving his ears ringing. Confused, he looked around, wondering why someone was hunting at this place. As far as he knew, there weren't many deer. Unless, of course, the hunters were after something else. Almost instinctively, his hands flew to the inside of his jacket, where they clasped around a small metallic object - his gun, the one thing he never went anywhere without. This was silly, of course; there was nothing to be scared of out here in the middle of nowhere with nothing but sky and trees and his thoughts all around him.

    ---

    The headlines the next morning read, "Man Killed In Hunting Accident". No one had any reason to believe this was anything more than a simple accident, a hunter misfiring his gun. No one suspected there was an ulterior motive behind it; he had simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time. He had it coming; he had only himself to blame.






    It is now Day 2.
    This phase will end Tuesday, October 23rd, at 9:30 PM EDT.

  14. #104
    Rock of Ages! Zenax's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-22-12] [Day 2 - Swinging Punches]

    First game in like 2 months and I'm killed Night 1? Rude.

  15. #105
    Mr. F's Bulbawife Hitomi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oakwood Mafia [10-22-12] [Day 2 - Swinging Punches]

    She threw suspicion onto Sputnik without physically voting, possibly trying to lie low. To me, these are red flags and seem scummy.
    Actually, I was asking Human about why he retracted his vote on Sputnik. As to why I didn't vote for Sputnik, I tend to not just "VOTE: X" until I have a reason to do so; I ask for a defense before putting up a vote. I was legitimately curious as to Human's reasoning behind supporting Sputnik, which I don't believe is scummy at all. Merely curious.

    And an update as I type this. Huh. I can honestly say I was not expecting that.

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