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  1. #91
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 2 - You were warned. [10-29]



    @Dark Blueberry; replaces Atomic.

    Carry on with your discussion.
    the vile, wandering one sneaks up

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    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 2 - You were warned. [10-29]

    @Master Mew; Since when did I have to participate in a debate to agree with a reached conclusion? As well as that, I never once said that I found you suspicious for voting No Lynch. I said that I found you suspicious because you didn't want to give off the impression that you wanted to lynch Sputnik, which is completely off to me -- why would you even bother overexplaining like that? It seems to me like you're getting defensive before anyone even puts something against you, and, yes, it might be useful for the future, but I don't see why you'd plan for the future when you can die at almost any point in the game, and the fact that you mentioned that it might be good for the future tells me that you're expecting an increased longevity for some reason.

    I don't see how I'm 'acting like a weather-vane' at all; all you've pretty much done there is suggested that, since I didn't talk, I can't agree, and that I said something that I didn't say? Either you're widely misunderstanding/misreading, or you're just looking for something to put against me.

  4. #94
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 2 - You were warned. [10-29]

    Quote Originally Posted by Buoy View Post
    I never once said that I found you suspicious for voting No Lynch.
    I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but here's the progression that led me to that conclusion:

    I voted No Lynch. -> My reason for voting No Lynch was to clarify that I wasn't ready to lynch Sputnik yet. -> You were suspicious of me not wanting to lynch Sputnik yet.

    In other words, since my No Lynch vote was (given the broader context of the post I said it in) the logical equivalent of not wanting to lynch Sputnik yet, and you found that logical equivalent suspicious, I equated that (perhaps incorrectly) to finding the vote itself suspicious.

    If I was wrong, I apologize.
    I said that I found you suspicious because you didn't want to give off the impression that you wanted to lynch Sputnik, which is completely off to me -- why would you even bother overexplaining like that?
    Because I was asked.
    It seems to me like you're getting defensive before anyone even puts something against you, and, yes, it might be useful for the future, but I don't see why you'd plan for the future when you can die at almost any point in the game, and the fact that you mentioned that it might be good for the future tells me that you're expecting an increased longevity for some reason.
    We should plan on dying?

    Of course I plan on living, in a game with no power roles planning on dying is only useful for the mafia. Townies have no additional information to reveal to the Town before they die, so they really ought to plan on living. Plus, planning on getting nightkilled is just depressing.

    Besides, look at the broader context: I suspected that Sputnik was mafia, but the Town wasn't ready to lynch anyone on Day 1. If I had made it abundantly clear that I wanted to lynch Sputnik during the next Phase, and she really was mafia, that would have made me a prime nightkill target. I don't like dying, so I didn't do that.

    As a general rule, I never state my intention to lynch someone until the Phase in which I'm prepared to lynch them.

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  5. #95
    Let's get funky! Gama's Avatar Former Head Administrator
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 2 - You were warned. [10-29]

    Hi all, I am playing, sorry for my absence thus far. To be perfectly honest, I forgot I had joined this game. I know I shouldn't have done that etc etc but at this point all I can do is apologise and be active from now on. So, sorry. Activity commences now:

    I'll start by going over my thoughts on each player. I've read through the whole thread. I'll leave out Missy since he is sadly no longer with us.

    Master Mew;

    To be honest I'm a little suspicious. He's really coming down on his FOS for Sputnik and while I am by no means suggesting that she is innocent, his reasoning seems to be the following:

    1) She NL'd for no reason at the start of D1. This is something only Mafia do according to MM, though we aren't really offered an explanation of why this is scummy behaviour. Please note that Sput does this in almost every game she plays, MM even seems to be aware of this.

    2) She was suspicious of MM but didn't want to out-and-out accuse him, only jumping behind Buoy's FOS when that surfaced. Uhh, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. She is just pressing harder when another player validates her views. Probably not the best way to play but I don't see how

    3) After NLing at the start of D1 she thanked Phoenicks for making her feel confident in her vote. Of course, at the time (read: before MM decided to pick on Sput) this was not reacted to with suspicion but with reassurance. (See post linked to in 1st point.)

    So it seems to me that MM's very hard FOS on Sputnik seems to be based more on the fact that he wants to FOS somebody than on the fact that he is finding anyone particularly suspicious.

    Sputnik;

    It is true she is, as MM puts it, acting like a "weathervane". She is not really making decisions or deductions for herself and instead following those of other people. Sadly (and I don't mean to insult you here, Sput, so I apologise if you do take it as an insult) this does not seem particularly out of character. While her claim that MM doesn't want to vote her because it would "lead to his downfall" is a little bizarre, it's not really enough for me to think much of it. That said, I don't think an MM/Sputnik Mafia is out of the question.

    Buoy;

    Not much to say here except that I'd like to know what it is about MM's FOS on Sput followed by an NL that you found so suspicious. To me, that reeked of poor playing but not necessarily scumminess. Of course, as I've said above, I do suspect MM, but not for that reason. Other than this I haven't seen much from Buoy to go on (hypocritical, I know).

    Feralize;

    I think the suggestion that Sput thanking Nix for "validating her playstyle" is suspicious or might be some bizarre buddy slip is a bit of a big one. I can't really conceive of why that would be a thing the Mafia would do, particularly not in the main thread. I'd like to hear why that seems suspicious to you.

    Phoenicks;

    Aside from a mostly banal commentary on the ridiculous to lynch or not lynch argument from Day 1 there isn't an awful lot for me to say here either really. The only comment I have is on his challenge to Zenax, Mido and Atomic on why they stopped their anti-NL sentiments after his pro-NL post: it seemed quite obvious to me that they were mostly arguing against Sput's auto-NL rather than the premise of an NL altogether, (and I find it difficult to believe that someone who plays to the standard that Nix usually seems to didn't also find this obvious) so it seemed unnecessary to force them to explain that. On the other hand, of course, forcing people to explain pointless things does make them more likely to slip if they are Mafia and give you more opportunity to deduce that they are town if they are not so there is a reasonable explanation to this too.

    Zenax;

    Sadly, nothing much to go on. Lots of Zenax just being Zenax. I could comment on specific instances but there's nothing out of character or that really deserves particular mention. The only thing that I have noticed which deserves any commentary whatsoever is that he doesn't seem to have even hinted at having any FOSs. Haven't played many games with Zenax so I don't know how usual/unusual this is but I'd like to know if he has any.

    Midorikawa

    There's not been a whole ton of action here either.


    I know this post leaves a little to be desired but I'm kinda tired right now. More on this as it develops.

  6. #96
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 2 - You were warned. [10-29]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gama View Post
    To be honest I'm a little suspicious. He's really coming down on his FOS for Sputnik and while I am by no means suggesting that she is innocent, his reasoning seems to be the following:

    1) She NL'd for no reason at the start of D1. This is something only Mafia do according to MM, though we aren't really offered an explanation of why this is scummy behaviour. Please note that Sput does this in almost every game she plays, MM even seems to be aware of this.

    2) She was suspicious of MM but didn't want to out-and-out accuse him, only jumping behind Buoy's FOS when that surfaced. Uhh, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. She is just pressing harder when another player validates her views. Probably not the best way to play but I don't see how

    3) After NLing at the start of D1 she thanked Phoenicks for making her feel confident in her vote. Of course, at the time (read: before MM decided to pick on Sput) this was not reacted to with suspicion but with reassurance. (See post linked to in 1st point.)
    No, it's mostly the weathervane thing (although #3 is definitely playing in, but that pretty much falls under weathervane). I thought Sputnik usually contributed more of her own insights than this, but if you say otherwise, I can accept that.

    As for my poor play, this is a really lame answer for that, but it's the truth (and if holding out on it for fear of sounding lame is going to get me lynched, it's not worth it): I was in a downright miserable mood and not thinking clearly. I'd had a very, very bad day.

    ^ Not your problem, I know, but I'd hate for anyone to get the lasting impression that I'm stupid and don't know how to play this game effectively.

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  7. #97
    noble roar Buoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 2 - You were warned. [10-29]

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew
    I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but here's the progression that led me to that conclusion:

    I voted No Lynch. -> My reason for voting No Lynch was to clarify that I wasn't ready to lynch Sputnik yet. -> You were suspicious of me not wanting to lynch Sputnik yet.

    In other words, since my No Lynch vote was (given the broader context of the post I said it in) the logical equivalent of not wanting to lynch Sputnik yet, and you found that logical equivalent suspicious, I equated that (perhaps incorrectly) to finding the vote itself suspicious.

    If I was wrong, I apologize.
    You sort of left out the key word 'yet' when you were busy trying to explain your 'intentions'. You said that you didn't want people to get the impression that you wanted to 'lynch Sputnik', not 'lynch Sputnik yet' -- the first quote, what you said, was suggesting that you didn't actually want to lynch Sputnik at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew
    Because I was asked.


    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew
    We should plan on dying?

    Of course I plan on living, in a game with no power roles planning on dying is only useful for the mafia. Townies have no additional information to reveal to the Town before they die, so they really ought to plan on living. Plus, planning on getting nightkilled is just depressing.

    Besides, look at the broader context: I suspected that Sputnik was mafia, but the Town wasn't ready to lynch anyone on Day 1. If I had made it abundantly clear that I wanted to lynch Sputnik during the next phase, and she really was mafia, that would have made me a prime nightkill target. I don't like dying, so I didn't do that.

    As a general rule, I never state my intention to lynch someone until the Phase in which I'm prepared to lynch them.
    I never said that you should plan on dying. Why do you keep pretending that I'm implying things that I'm not?

    You keep saying 'plan' constantly, when I only mentioned that you're planning for the future by saying what you did, and why would you bother overexplaining to prevent misunderstandings in the future when you've got an equal chance of dying as anybody else (excluding mafia)? The fact that you're doing things FOR THE FUTURE implies that you're actually going to live to see said future, which is why I said that it sounds like you're expecting a greater longevity. There's no point in making precautions if you can't guarantee that you're going to live to see their effects, after all.

    Your whole 'broader context' thing is completely irrelevant to what I said in my post. You keep suggesting in your post that I said something like 'you should plan to die, not to live', but I never even said that? As well as that, I think we've came across a problem in that you 'don't like dying'. Why don't you like dying? Is it just because you're not going to be playing anymore, or is it because you can't personally win if you die? If it's the former, then tough titties, because you're going to have to deal with it if you do die -- withholding intentions or information is detrimental to town, and if you're just doing so because you want to live to play more, then that's pretty selfish and you're not giving the town much of a chance to win. If the scenario you mentioned did happen (which is unlikely, because I don't think a mafia player would ever want to try and draw attention like that), we'd have a lead of sorts on Sputnik -- an obvious lead, surely, but it'd either tell us if it was a frame job or if it was true. As for the latter I mentioned, get over it if you can't personally win -- the wins that matter in the games are factional wins, as I've stressed numerous times all over the place.

    Do you want to state your intentions to lynch Sputnik now, or do you want to wait for a bit? You've already made it clear that you'd WANT to lynch her at this point.

    Anyway...

    Vote: Master Mew.

    Odd comment about not wanting to give the impression that he wants to lynch Sputnik, keeps suggesting that I'm saying things that I'm not, only selectively answering my posts, the whole 'I don't want to die' business (not the most major of factors, but, as I've mentioned above, not wanting to die can indicate town-detrimental tendencies), as well as the fact that it sounds like he knows he's going to be alive in the future. In other words, read the last couple of posts I made regarding him if you want it more in-depth. Thanks.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 2 - You were warned. [10-29]

    Quote Originally Posted by Buoy View Post
    You sort of left out the key word 'yet' when you were busy trying to explain your 'intentions'. You said that you didn't want people to get the impression that you wanted to 'lynch Sputnik', not 'lynch Sputnik yet' -- the first quote, what you said, was suggesting that you didn't actually want to lynch Sputnik at all.
    Already explained why. See above.
    I never said that you should plan on dying. Why do you keep pretending that I'm implying things that I'm not?
    Because finding it suspicious that I plan on living implies that you think I shouldn't.
    You keep saying 'plan' constantly, when I only mentioned that you're planning for the future by saying what you did, and why would you bother overexplaining to prevent misunderstandings in the future when you've got an equal chance of dying as anybody else (excluding mafia)? The fact that you're doing things FOR THE FUTURE implies that you're actually going to live to see said future, which is why I said that it sounds like you're expecting a greater longevity. There's no point in making precautions if you can't guarantee that you're going to live to see their effects, after all.
    Um... what? Yes there is. Planning for the future isn't guaranteed to work since you might get nightkilled, but that doesn't mean there's no benefit. As for 'plan,' OMG only a Mafioso would make plans.
    Why don't you like dying? Is it just because you're not going to be playing anymore, or is it because you can't personally win if you die?
    The former, believe it or not, I sign up for these games because I enjoy them. So yes, I'd like to keep playing. Nobody likes dying, if I OMGUS'd and voted for you, you wouldn't like it, either.

    Do you want to state your intentions to lynch Sputnik now, or do you want to wait for a bit? You've already made it clear that you'd WANT to lynch her at this point.
    I thought I implied that in my previous post, but yes, I would be willing to lynch Sputnik now.
    Anyway...

    Vote: Master Mew.

    Odd comment about not wanting to give the impression that he wants to lynch Sputnik, keeps suggesting that I'm saying things that I'm not, only selectively answering my posts, the whole 'I don't want to die' business (not the most major of factors, but, as I've mentioned above, not wanting to die can indicate town-detrimental tendencies), as well as the fact that it sounds like he knows he's going to be alive in the future. In other words, read the last couple of posts I made regarding him if you want it more in-depth. Thanks.
    A.) The "odd comment" wasn't odd at all, I was answering a direct question. B.) Then stop making implications and them dropping them as soon as they're questioned. C.) I "selectively" answered your posts because most of what you've said is incoherent nonsense. D.) I "don't want to die" because, duh, nobody wants to die. I'm willing to die if it helps the town, but at the moment, it doesn't. E.) I act like I'm going to live because there's no reason not to, as I've previously explained.

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  9. #99
    noble roar Buoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 2 - You were warned. [10-29]

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew
    Already explained why. See above.
    ok

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew
    Because finding it suspicious that I plan on living implies that you think I shouldn't.
    Did I say that I found it suspicious that you plan on living? No, I found it suspicious that you're making precautions when you can't guarantee that you're going to live to see their effects -- increased longevity in a vanilla game is down to being a mafioso, and that's the long and short of it. You were making assumptions that you were going to live -- planning to live is a completely different thing to acting like you're really going to. ;_;

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew
    Um... what? Yes there is. Planning for the future isn't guaranteed to work since you might get nightkilled, but that doesn't mean there's no benefit. As for 'plan,' OMG only a Mafioso would make plans.
    What point is there? Stating that you didn't want to lynch Sputnik D1 is going to do nothing if you're dead. There isn't really much benefit to what you've been doing -- sure, saying to someone, "Lynch x if I die tonight" does have some merit, but is that what you've been doing? Nope. And there's really no need to get sarcastic like that -- if you see, you're making plans in the context that they're all going to be of use to you in the future, but, as I've said, saying that you didn't want to lynch Sputnik D1 is going to do nothing if you're dead (yes, repetitive, but I feel like I need to get something drilled in).

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew
    The former, believe it or not, I sign up for these games because I enjoy them. So yes, I'd like to keep playing. Nobody likes dying, if I OMGUS'd and voted for you, you wouldn't like it, either.
    sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    not my point

    and i wouldn't like it if u did that because u haven't presented any reasoning to??????????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew
    I thought I implied that in my previous post, but yes, I would be willing to lynch Sputnik now.
    I didn't see your previous post, as I was still writing out mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew
    A.) The "odd comment" wasn't odd at all, I was answering a direct question. B.) Then stop making implications and them dropping them as soon as they're questioned. C.) I "selectively" answered your posts because most of what you've said is incoherent nonsense. D.) I "don't want to die" because, duh, nobody wants to die. I'm willing to die if it helps the town, but at the moment, it doesn't. E.) I act like I'm going to live because there's no reason not to, as I've previously explained.
    A.) Okay.
    B.) I'm not making any special implications that I know of -- 'you're making plans for the future like you're going to see them through' is not the same as 'OMG STOP PLANNING TO LIVE U SHUD DIE'.
    C.) 'Incoherent nonsense' -- Thanks. That's what I really love to hear after trying to put some effort into a game -- that what I BOTHER to write out is dismissed as 'incoherent nonsense'. Belittling me is not helping your case, believe me -- it seems like a continuation of your AtE that you already started by saying "ooft so tired n stuff i dnt want 2 luk lyk bad playr". Saying that what I have to say is nonsense is not only degrading, but it sticks out like a beacon in that you're just trying to get other people not to acknowledge what I say.
    D.) ok then
    E.) see point D

  10. #100
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 2 - You were warned. [10-29]

    First off, I apologize for insulting you.

    Now, we can really boil this down to two things:

    1. I want to live.

    2. On Day 1 I said I didn't want to lynch Sputnik.

    So allow me to concisely respond to both charges:

    1. This is not necessarily anti-Town in nature. Most players tend to consider themselves and their brilliant cleverness to be invaluable to the Town, this is a flaw I share. Not wanting to be nightkilled essentially boils down to us all considering ourselve valuable to the Town and preferring that someone else who is contributing less be nightkilled instead. I've yet to meet someone who didn't want to live - unless it was their win-condition to die.

    As for "planning" on living, nothing is guaranteed, but if one considers themselves valuable to the Town it is not unusual to try to dodge the nightkill. For this reason, you can accuse me of arrogance, but not scumminess.

    2. I didn't want to lynch Sputnik for two reasons: a.) Because I was persuaded, as was most of the Town, that not lynching would be optimal on Day 1. b.) Because I wanted to give Sputnik a chance to respond to the accusations.

    Furthermore, I was gambiting to see what would happen with the nightkill if I feigned disinterest in lynching Sputnik. TheMissingno. was nightkilled, and I'm still trying to work out how to read that.

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  11. #101
    noble roar Buoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 2 - You were warned. [10-29]

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    First off, I apologize for insulting you.

    Now, we can really boil this down to two things:

    1. I want to live.

    2. On Day 1 I said I didn't want to lynch Sputnik.

    So allow me to concisely respond to both charges:

    1. This is not necessarily anti-Town in nature. Most players tend to consider themselves and their brilliant cleverness to be invaluable to the Town, this is a flaw I share. Not wanting to be nightkilled essentially boils down to us all considering ourselve valuable to the Town and preferring that someone else who is contributing less be nightkilled instead. I've yet to meet someone who didn't want to live - unless it was their win-condition to die.

    As for "planning" on living, nothing is guaranteed, but if one considers themselves valuable to the Town it is not unusual to try to dodge the nightkill. For this reason, you can accuse me of arrogance, but not scumminess.

    2. I didn't want to lynch Sputnik for two reasons: a.) Because I was persuaded, as was most of the Town, that not lynching would be optimal on Day 1. b.) Because I wanted to give Sputnik a chance to respond to the accusations.

    Furthermore, I was gambiting to see what would happen with the nightkill if I feigned disinterest in lynching Sputnik. TheMissingno. was nightkilled, and I'm still trying to work out how to read that.
    1. Not necessarily, no. I understand the will behind not wanting to be killed, but not wanting to be killed/planning to live is not the same as acting as though you are going to live, which you were by saying that you didn't want to give off a certain impression -- not having that impression given off won't help if you're dead, as the example that I have pretty much beaten dead by now repeating. By all means, want to live, but you shouldn't let that get in the way of sharing your thoughts -- especially since this is a vanilla game -- or it is town-detrimental. Of course nobody WANTS to die -- heck, I don't want to die -- but you're not doing anybody but the mafia favours by specifically trying to stay alive (again, especially since this is a vanilla game). I'm pretty much sick to the teeth of people who actually TRY not to die as town because they pretty much don't want to, or they have a self-inflated ego or something like that. The manner that you're talking about not dying in seems pretty anti-town to me in the way that you're deliberately withholding things so that you don't die.

    2. You're talking about two different things. The issue raised was that you said you didn't want to lynch Sputnik ("didn't want to give off the impression that I [MM] wanted to lynch Sputnik"), but you didn't modify it. You're only modifying it now that you're being questioned further, which could sort of be seen as a contradiction. You said it on Day 1, yes, but not modifying it did suggest that you didn't want to lynch Sputnik, full stop. Basically, you were scared of giving the wrong impression, and, this might be tied in with your will not to die, but who would actually care about giving a right or wrong impression unless they were mafia? Anyway, going back to my first sentence on this issue: the charge wasn't that you didn't want to lynch Sputnik, but the fact that you said you didn't want people to think you wanted to lynch Sputnik (if that makes sense; I had to read this over a few times myself). So, uh, yeah, I think that's everything I wanted to say about this issue.

  12. #102
    Hipsteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer Phoenicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Re: Master Mew: Too easy. It seems too perfect that every player with an opinion has registered scumtells on Master Mew. When the only pushback comes from the player being lynched, and consent is near-unanimous, then it's likely that the mafia have comfortably settled against Mew. Inferring this, my responses are as follows:

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post

    @Phoenicks Questioner-of-many, accuser-of-none. Tell us how you really feel.
    I need to leave room for nuance. Behavior changes when you observe it. You can't both be in an argument and watch it. Different approaches work best at different times. In this case, why answer to you when I can watch you squirm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    What strikes me most is that there were lots of arguments for lynching before I posted and none after. That tells me that the mafia are not pushing against me. So, all you people who were arguing for lynches before: where are you?
    You completely ignored my suggestion of a reasoned lynch (making your statement that there were lots of arguments for lynching before you posted and "none after" a lie). Why are you trying to rewrite history?
    I can not respond to something without ignoring it. Before I didn't respond to your post. Now I'm ignoring it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    But can the players last 3 days?
    I'm not trying to cherry-pick quotes here, but that was a really ominous thing to say.
    This was mentioned by a few players so I'll clarify: Each dayphase lasts 3 days. I meant "Can activity be maintained over three days?" -- not "Will the town survive three phases?" Unless the mafia have three members (which I discounted as a possibility,) the only way to lose within three phases is for parma to kill half the town.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feralize View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    @Feralize You mentioned finding Sputnik "mildly" suspicous, but didn't say why (unless it was that "buddying" thing you mentioned previously). So, um, why?
    It was because of the buddying statement. I don't have anything of substance besides that, so it's just mild suspicion. I'd call her out if I had anything more.
    What more would you need to call out Sputnik? With no investigations, abilities, or roles, at what point do you decide "I"ll call her out"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gama View Post
    Hi all, I am playing, sorry for my absence thus far. To be perfectly honest, I forgot I had joined this game. I know I shouldn't have done that etc etc but at this point all I can do is apologise and be active from now on. So, sorry. Activity commences now:
    No worries. ^^

    Phoenicks;

    Aside from a mostly banal commentary on the ridiculous to lynch or not lynch argument from Day 1 there isn't an awful lot for me to say here either really.
    I enjoy having the no lynch / lynch discussion; if you have something to say to me about it, please do.

    The only comment I have is on his challenge to Zenax, Mido and Atomic on why they stopped their anti-NL sentiments after his pro-NL post: it seemed quite obvious to me that they were mostly arguing against Sput's auto-NL rather than the premise of an NL altogether, (and I find it difficult to believe that someone who plays to the standard that Nix usually seems to didn't also find this obvious)
    What bothered me is the ease with which my proposal was accepted. Everyone suddenly wanted to NL when they had argued against a NL before. I understand the distinction between NL for lack of scumhunting and NL for math's sake. My quibble is that there was a major shift in perception even though most people didn't respond to my post directly. That tells me that some who opposed a NL quietly changed their opinions so as to not attract attention.

    so it seemed unnecessary to force them to explain that. On the other hand, of course, forcing people to explain pointless things does make them more likely to slip if they are Mafia and give you more opportunity to deduce that they are town if they are not so there is a reasonable explanation to this too.
    And so you've WIFOM'd yourself into arguing both for and against me. :P

    @Dark Blueberry; Would you care to respond to the posts Atomic made?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic
    Okay, so let's sit around and do nothing and wait for the mafia to kill us all?
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic
    Okay, instantly voting no lynch will get us nowhere. If we lynch someone it'll at least get us information. Even if we just vote randomly and don't lynch anyone it'll give us something to analyze later. Right now I'm waiting for more people to join in the discussion before I place my vote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic
    And where will a no lynch get us, exactly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    With so few players and no information whatsoever, I Vote: No Lynch​.
    Now that we have some information, who would you vote, and why?

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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Feralize View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    @Feralize You mentioned finding Sputnik "mildly" suspicous, but didn't say why (unless it was that "buddying" thing you mentioned previously). So, um, why?
    It was because of the buddying statement. I don't have anything of substance besides that, so it's just mild suspicion. I'd call her out if I had anything more.
    What more would you need to call out Sputnik? With no investigations, abilities, or roles, at what point do you decide "I"ll call her out"?
    Preferably (and I know this is going to sound bad) some meta or something more definite about her posts - a slip, a pattern, anything. By "call her out" I mean "present evidence on which to start a lynch". If you guys think what I stated is enough, by all means, go for it. But I still am not very sure on her alignment and I'm not sure I'd start a lynch on her right now.

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    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    @Phoenicks;

    Please give me some time to read through the thread. I'll respond when I grasp what's been going on here

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    Atomic's posts were made fairly early in the game. But while I do agree that a no lynch would get us nowhere, what sort of info do we get from mislynching a townie? People talk about info - but what info? After Missingno was killed, all we got was just a dead townie. He wasn't contradicting anything, and there wasn't much anyone who turned up scummy after he was killed. Someone voted Master Mew...but I'm not sure if it's just me - cuz Master Mew doesn't seem scummy to me at all.

    Since this is a vanilla game, the info we can get is extremely limited when someone dies. We don't have to lie about something like "I'm the bomb" and then get counterclaimed, resulting in a lynch. I'd have to say this is a very difficult game where all we can rely on is our opinions on other users playing/posting styles. Which, would put people like me at a huge disadvantage due to my bad habit of being scummy all the time regardless of my alignment.

    I don't know if I answered what you wanted, but these are my thoughts, imo

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