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Thread: Nameless Mafia - Endgame - Mafia Win [11-14]

  1. #61
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMissingno. View Post
    So because you didn't like a film, you're going to act in a way that defies logic?
    No, because I didn't like a book I'm going to act in a way that defies logic (not that looking for suspicious activity is illogical, I just restated your question.

    Didn't you agree with Zenax when he told Sputnik voting No Lynch was unwise?

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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I was starting to question my vote, but now that Phoenicks has proven how much better off we'll be without lynching today, I feel like my decision was a good one. :)

    Thank you, Phoenicks for making me feel better about myself and my action. :)
    This strikes me as an incredibly odd thing to say. I wouldn't quite call it buddying, but you shouldn't rely on others for validation of your play style. Not sure if it's a slip of some bizarre sort or not, though.

    As for the lynch/no lynch argument, I find a no lynch agreeable as long as we gain something of worth - even if it's just posts to analyze.

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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMissingno. View Post
    So because you didn't like a film, you're going to act in a way that defies logic?
    No, because I didn't like a book I'm going to act in a way that defies logic (not that looking for suspicious activity is illogical, I just restated your question.

    Didn't you agree with Zenax when he told Sputnik voting No Lynch was unwise?
    No, I had no stance either way at the time. Go look.
    That's nice.

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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMissingno. View Post
    No, I had no stance either way at the time. Go look.
    My apologies, I misunderstood.

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    Hipsteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer Phoenicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    I'm calling time. If nobody's going to discuss then it doesn't make sense to not lynch. We have one day left and I'm going to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I was starting to question my vote, but now that Phoenicks has proven how much better off we'll be without lynching today, I feel like my decision was a good one. :)

    Thank you, Phoenicks for making me feel better about myself and my action. :)
    I can't control your feelings and the way you feel about the game is up to you. Choose to be happy. I had other things to say but let's all just stick to scumhunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    With so few players and no information whatsoever, I Vote: No Lynch​.
    When you made this post, were you intending to be swayed by the following 3 days of discussion, or were you locking yourself in early?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic View Post
    And where will a no lynch get us, exactly?
    Too aggressive, especially given:

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic View Post
    Okay, so let's sit around and do nothing and wait for the mafia to kill us all?
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic View Post
    Okay, instantly voting no lynch will get us nowhere. If we lynch someone it'll at least get us information. Even if we just vote randomly and don't lynch anyone it'll give us something to analyze later. Right now I'm waiting for more people to join in the discussion before I place my vote.
    Do you have anything to say to my No Lynch proposition? Are you waiting for something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Midorikawa View Post
    Sound like me Atomic. Voting no lynch will get us no where. Voting gives information. Voting No lynch makes me think that you're afraid of being lynched and not afraid of being nightkilled because you're mafia. Of course that's only one possibility. You may just be a townie afraid of being lynched. Otherwise no lynch is getting us nowhere.
    Same questions as above.

    So yeah, you have to read my responses to other players, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    We don't know anything right now, and there are so few players that it would be a huge risk to vote anyone out yet.
    You are saying this like day 1 implies that if the town decides to lynch someone, then it has to be done absolutely randomly with zero reasoning behind the bandwagon. That is not how lynches work. First, there has to be some game-related conversation going, and it can be done without voting no lynch because it's already useless in a game like this anyway. Once it has started, then the town can start to analyze posts and scumhunt from there. Accusations are thrown, people defend themselves, and reads are gotten on the other players. From that point on, everyone theoretically should start having their opinions on the other players and start deducing what their alignment might be. If they have a scumread on someone, then they can start pushing for their lynch, or at least try to pressure them in case their opinion could change. In a game like this, there has to be a general consensus on the person that will be lynched, so scenarios where players are lynched because of a stealth vote that stayed until the deadline don't even happen.
    Ah, but how would you start such discussion in the first place? And at what point do we start to move from preliminary guessing to FOS'ing? My answer is: below.

    Also, remember that day phases in this game last 3 real life days, so there's absolutely no point in rushing things or worry about eagerly voting someone out, because that would only set the town aback.
    But can the players last 3 days?

    There are no cops in this game, so letting a night phase pass before starting to actually play is pretty useless. The information gained from a night kill would be abysmally low if there was no discussion beforehand. Of course, it's possible that at the end of the day a townie will be lynched, but we're not in LyLo and it's not the end of the world if it happens; that's part of the game. With most likely two mafia, the town can afford two mislynches before falling in MyLo.
    What strikes me most is that there were lots of arguments for lynching before I posted and none after. That tells me that the mafia are not pushing against me. So, all you people who were arguing for lynches before: where are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Midorikawa View Post
    What he's saying I think is that he's going to wait for more info before voting. Let's wait for others to post that haven't yet.
    I have pretty much the same reaction to your post that Buoy had to Master Mew's: What was the point of this post?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMissingno. View Post
    Ah, I see we have the typical "no lynch" vs "random vote" argument that happens in almost every single game, followed by [Zenax, Phoenicks, Ryuutakeshi, etc.] explaining how mafia games are actually played. TheMissingno. was disappointed, but he was not surprised.

    Now Zenax, if you could indulge the thread further, please tell me why I shouldn't vote for you right now.
    Now Master Mew, if you could indulge the thread further, please tell me why I shouldn't vote for you right now.
    Now, Sputnik, if you could indulge the thread further, please tell me why I shouldn't vote for you...
    Now, TheMissingno., if you could indulge the thread further, please tell me why...
    Now, Buoy, if you could indulge the thread further...
    Now, Feralize, if you could...
    Now, Zenax...
    Now,...
    ...

    I found something off about this post but I can't put my finger on it, aside for ^.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    No one wants you to feel like you're playing "wrong," there really isn't a wrong way to play Day 1 at this point. It does generally go against conventional wisdom to vote No Lynch, though, so it tends to raise eyebrows.
    Who cares if it will "raise eyebrows;" who cares what anyone else thinks. What do you think about not lynching?

    Phoenicks does make a good argument against a random lynch, however.
    I know. Will you rebut if you're interested in a "reasoned lynch," or will you also disagree in theory and acquiesce anyways?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMissingno. View Post
    Why not play by the numbers? After all, mafia games are (supposedly) about logic, and nothing is more logical than numbers.
    So do you want to play by the numbers or not? Why or why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    As for this archaic Lynch/No Lynch controversy, I've never liked playing by-the-numbers. The idea that not lynching somehow increases the statistical probability of us successfully lynching all the mafia members just feels... meh. Suffice it to say, if someone does something suspicious between now and the end of the Phase, I see no good reason not to pursue it (statistical probability doesn't really apply if the votes aren't random). Phoenicks does make a good argument against a random lynch, however.
    No, stop. It only matters at the end of the game. We're doing it now to prevent a situation in which the mafia can prevent MYLO from ever turning the game into LYLO, which is more advantageous. There is a benefit to having more discussion before lynching first, but the primary benefit comes much later.

    To point out that No Lynch is better than a random lynch, but a reasoned lynch is better than No Lynch.
    Who would you lynch, if not no one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I was starting to question my vote, but now that Phoenicks has proven how much better off we'll be without lynching today, I feel like my decision was a good one. :)

    Thank you, Phoenicks for making me feel better about myself and my action. :)
    This is mafia. Nothing is ever proven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feralize View Post

    This strikes me as an incredibly odd thing to say. I wouldn't quite call it buddying, but you shouldn't rely on others for validation of your play style. Not sure if it's a slip of some bizarre sort or not, though.

    As for the lynch/no lynch argument, I find a no lynch agreeable as long as we gain something of worth - even if it's just posts to analyze.
    What's your analysis? I'm going to single you out and give you the honorary position of responding to nothing in particular levied against you whatsoever. What do you make of the thread thus far?

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    I was explaining to a confused player and stating that we should see what others say as well before rushing into anything.

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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMissingno. View Post
    Ah, I see we have the typical "no lynch" vs "random vote" argument that happens in almost every single game, followed by [Zenax, Phoenicks, Ryuutakeshi, etc.] explaining how mafia games are actually played. TheMissingno. was disappointed, but he was not surprised.

    Now Zenax, if you could indulge the thread further, please tell me why I shouldn't vote for you right now.
    Now Master Mew, if you could indulge the thread further, please tell me why I shouldn't vote for you right now.
    Now, Sputnik, if you could indulge the thread further, please tell me why I shouldn't vote for you...
    Now, TheMissingno., if you could indulge the thread further, please tell me why...
    Now, Buoy, if you could indulge the thread further...
    Now, Feralize, if you could...
    Now, Zenax...
    Now,...
    ...

    I found something off about this post but I can't put my finger on it, aside for ^.
    /yawn
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMissingno. View Post
    Why not play by the numbers? After all, mafia games are (supposedly) about logic, and nothing is more logical than numbers.
    So do you want to play by the numbers or not? Why or why not?
    I always play by the numbers if possible. Like I said, numbers are logical.
    That's nice.

  8. #68
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    Phoenicks does make a good argument against a random lynch, however.
    I know. Will you rebut if you're interested in a "reasoned lynch," or will you also disagree in theory and acquiesce anyways?
    Disagreeing in theory and acquiescing anyway is pretty much my thing. I trademarked it. I just wanted to provide some perspective for anyone who was confused - to clarify my opinion that if someone is clearly scummy we should move in for the lynch, but otherwise No Lynch is a far better strategy in this case than a random lynch - since you correctly stated that we ought to No Lynch at some point.

    I will acquiesce because trying to No Lynch later in the game will be difficult and no one will want to suggest it for fear of looking, "scummy." In an ideal world, however, we would No Lynch in the first Day Phase where we have no clear target - that will likely be this phase, but you never know.

    tl;dr: I will acquiesce.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    With so few players and no information whatsoever, I Vote: No Lynch​.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    We don't know anything right now, and there are so few players that it would be a huge risk to vote anyone out yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Why allow for two very possible townie deaths when we can only have one? But then again, we could possibly lynch a mafioso... It's unlikely, though.
    ^ @Sputnik Is it fair for me to assume that this was your reason for voting No Lynch?

    That first post of yours was the first post of Day 1, and all three were made long before Phoenicks gave the only good reason to vote No Lynch. You immediately latched onto his reasoning (in the quote below), but your original reasoning did not take the odd/even rule into account, and voting No Lynch for any reason other than the odd/even rule is decidedly anti-town in nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I was starting to question my vote, but now that Phoenicks has proven how much better off we'll be without lynching today, I feel like my decision was a good one. :)

    Thank you, Phoenicks for making me feel better about myself and my action. :)
    The only way I can think of describe how I read that was that you actually felt "relieved" that your logic checked out (which implies that you suspected it wouldn't).

    FoS: Sputnik

    Vote: No Lynch

    Reason: A.) Clearly the concensus of the Town.
    B.) It is advantageous for us to No Lynch once during the course of the game, and this phase is the only phase in which we're likely to agree to such a move.
    C.) Other than Sputnik, I have no leads.
    D.) (Sub-question: Mew, why are you voting right now?) I have a very busy day tomorrow, I have church tomorrow morning, then work all afternoon and evening, plus my car broke down so I have to deal with that - you get the picture. I don't expect to be able to check Bulba again between now and the end of the Phase.

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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Why are you even voting at all? We'll get a no lynch at the end of the phase as long as no one gets 6 votes on them anyway, so the only thing voting "No Lynch" can possibly mean is that you would like the phase to end early. Why?
    That's nice.

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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Because FoS'ing Sputnik without voting No Lynch might have left the impression that I wanted to lynch Sputnik instead.

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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    Because FoS'ing Sputnik without voting No Lynch might have left the impression that I wanted to lynch Sputnik instead.
    Why would you even care about that? Why would you not want other people to have the impression that you wanted to lynch Sputnik instead of having a no-lynch?

    This post sticks out like a sore thumb. It sounds like he knows that lynching Sputnik would be a bad idea or something, and how would he know that unless...

    he's mafia!!!!!!??>??/!!!111 dun dun dun!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    You know, Buoy, even through your childlike typing style, I agree with you. He would only care about getting the wrong impression if he is a mafioso. Also, if he were to lead a lynch on me, he knows it will lead to his downfall.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    Ah, but how would you start such discussion in the first place? And at what point do we start to move from preliminary guessing to FOS'ing? My answer is: below.
    Like in every games. Either do something that isn't a random vote or vote for someone who has done something like it and voila, most players get into srs bsns mindset and the random voting stage ends.

    In theory, there can also be a random question stage, but I've never seen this on Bulbagarden.

    But can the players last 3 days?
    Look at the date, you have your answer.

    What strikes me most is that there were lots of arguments for lynching before I posted and none after. That tells me that the mafia are not pushing against me. So, all you people who were arguing for lynches before: where are you?
    What we were arguing for was the typical lynch vs. no lynch on day 1, the reason being that Sputnik voted for no lynch because there was no information in the thread, not if voting no lynch in a game like this is beneficial or not. It's good to debate for the first one (although it comes up so often that it should be in the mafia philosophy thread instead of every games), but not so much for the second, as there is no arguing there. The debate could have continued for a long time, but I assume everyone stopped arguing about it either because they've had it with that archaic debate or that no matter what there would be no lynch anyway, possibly a mix of both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    You know, Buoy, even through your childlike typing style, I agree with you. He would only care about getting the wrong impression if he is a mafioso. Also, if he were to lead a lynch on me, he knows it will lead to his downfall.
    Because townies never vote for other townies, yes?

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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Feralize View Post

    This strikes me as an incredibly odd thing to say. I wouldn't quite call it buddying, but you shouldn't rely on others for validation of your play style. Not sure if it's a slip of some bizarre sort or not, though.

    As for the lynch/no lynch argument, I find a no lynch agreeable as long as we gain something of worth - even if it's just posts to analyze.
    What's your analysis? I'm going to single you out and give you the honorary position of responding to nothing in particular levied against you whatsoever. What do you make of the thread thus far?
    I find Sputnik mildly suspicious. I have a gut feeling on Master Mew. Null reads on everyone else.

    I do find this statement a bit odd:
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    Because FoS'ing Sputnik without voting No Lynch might have left the impression that I wanted to lynch Sputnik instead.
    FoSing =/= wanting to vote. I think it's a bit odd how he felt he needed to clarify that after stating repeatedly that he was all for a No Lynch. Along with that, he's also pretty set on following along with Phoenicks. It is one thing to agree but this seems to be more along the lines of following along imo and thus more suspicious. Hope that makes sense.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Nameless Mafia - Day 1 - Dawn of uncertainty [10-24]

    It makes a lot of sense to me, and looking at the analyzed posts made by everyone, makes me very tempted to vote Master Mew. He could, however, be a very scummy-looking townie, so I will not vote until we get more information about him.

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