Thread: Music Mafia - ENDGAME - Mafia Victory [9/14]

Cool, my song was the doctor

Wait, shit, the doctor got killed D-:

Fos: Everyone who moans about their inactivity, then posts nothing more than "Omg, cop/doctor/whoever died".

a) http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/666/_57c8a1a431a592af806925e57258202f.png
b) Your inactivity no longer stands as a reason for not scumhunting/whatever, so you have no excuse not to. I'd prefer it that if you ARE strapped for time getting onto the computer, then you don't waste valuable posts posting what we already know :/

Okay CAR*, who do you have in mind?

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Okay CAR*, who do you have in mind?

DAY 1:
mwto*^ 7
Karamazov* 5
Dark Blueberry* 2 (technically 3, but one was just a name change announcment)
Ryuu 1
Feli 1
Phoenicks*^ 8
Neon Borealis* 1
Mr F.* 1
Mintaka^ 1
Exor^ 2

NIGHT 1:
Mintaka 2
Feli^ 3
Dark Blueberry^~ 3
Karamazov 2
Phoenicks^ 4
Neon Borealis 1
Hawkeye~ 3
Ryuu 1
Paperhorse^ 1
Mr F.^ 1

DAY 2:
Hawkeye*~ 4
Karamazov* 3
Phoenicks*^ 10
Ryuu* 1
mwto*^ 6
Dark Blueberry* 1
Mintaka*^ 2
Neon Borealis* 2
Feli*^ 2
Mr F.* 3
Paperhorse* 1
DrumBeats*^ 6
Atomic* 3 [NOTE: First post of the game, used the phrase "I still find (Karamazov) most suspicious"]

NIGHT 2:
mwto~ 1 (basically on the very edge of what I considered a ~)
Missingno 1 (asking for a sub)
Ryuu~ 1
Feli~ 1
Dark Blueberry~ 1
CAR^ 1
DrumBeats^ 1

DAY 3:
Hawkeye~ 2
Dark Blueberry*~ 3
Feli~ 1 (again, on the verge of a ~)
mwto*~ 5 (ditto above note)
Ryuu~ 1 (more so on the verge than above, but still ~)
CAR^ 1
Phoenicks*^ 5
Atomic 1
DrumBeats* 1

NIGHT 3:
Phoenicks~ 2
mwto~ 2
Hawkeye~ 1
Dark Blueberry~ 3
Mintaka^ 1
Feli 2
Paperhorse 1

DAY 4:
Hawkeye~ 2
Dark Blueberry~ 1
Feli~ 1
CAR^ 1

* Voted within that phase
^ Posted what could be considered 'discussion' content
~ Posted a post only containing a message similar to "Oh no, the cop's dead".

Ok, the above list is a list of everyone that has posted throughout the game. It lists who posted in each phase and how many times, whether or not they voted, whether or not they provided discussion (NOT including defending themselves - actual speculation of others), and whether or not one of their posts contained nothing more than an expression of their displeasure regarding the lynch/kill for that phase.

Focussing mainly on my above post, this is a list of the amount of times someone has made a '~' post throughout the game, if they're still alive:

Dark Blueberry 5
Hawkeye 5
Feli 3
Phoenicks 1

So Dark Blueberry (I'd appreciate not using 'DB', since there are two people in the game with those initials, the other being DrumBeats) and Hawkeye are the most suspicious in that regard.

However, upon going through the thread, I read something that did intrigue me and that is Atomic's comment about Karamazov when voting him, which can be found here. The use of the word 'still' just doesn't sit well with me. It implies she's been keeping tabs on the game, but the sentence before implicitly contradicts that, stating that Atomic hasn't been that active and not had time. If Atomic HAS had time and been keeping tabs on the game, then there's scumminess in the fact that she hasn't been posting. That trumps my theory before, imo. Therefore...

Vote: Atomic

@Atomic Response?

...do you guys really have NOTHING ELSE to judge people other than posting styles? I'm finding that extremely annoying. The contents in my posts don't have much to do with being town or mafia - it's just my statement and opinion of each situation I'm in. I'm pretty much like that in every single mafia game I'm playing - regardless of my roles.

If you don't believe me, go take a look at the other mafia games I'm participating. Also, if you're a veteran, you should know that people can have different posting styles. No two people are the same, and there isn't some sort of guidebook on "What posts are town-ish and what posts indicate one is mafia". Just because someone is posting something that doesn't match your "town" standards, or posted something unimportant doesn't make one suspicious.

Originally Posted by Dark Blueberry

...do you guys really have NOTHING ELSE to judge people other than posting styles? I'm finding that extremely annoying. The contents in my posts don't have much to do with being town or mafia - it's just my statement and opinion of each situation I'm in. I'm pretty much like that in every single mafia game I'm playing - regardless of my roles.

If you don't believe me, go take a look at the other mafia games I'm participating. Also, if you're a veteran, you should know that people can have different posting styles. No two people are the same, and there isn't some sort of guidebook on "What posts are town-ish and what posts indicate one is mafia". Just because someone is posting something that doesn't match your "town" standards, or posted something unimportant doesn't make one suspicious.

Um, overreaction much?

I'm honestly confused here. If we don't try and scumhunt based on posts and posting styles, what do we scumhunt on? I'll give you a hint: if you say votes, I will scream/headdesk/facepalm/all of the above. Posting styles say a lot about a person, and can be a very big indicator of whether they're mafia or not, ESPECIALLY if their posting style changes mid-game. If they're usually quite laid back and passive-aggressive in their posts, then it can be very odd if they suddenly started tunnelling on someone for seemingly no reason. Or, if they're aggressive and as soon as someone points it out, start to not be as aggressive, because they don't want to appear scummy. Every townie wants to appear the perfect balance of scummy - not enough to be considered for a lynch, and not too little so that you're a good choice for the mafia to kill.

If the content of your posts "don't have much to do with being town or mafia", then you are not playing this game correctly. The whole point is that people behave differently when placed in different situations. Granted, mafia started out as a live-action-role-playing game where behaviour was more easily read, but you can still read people a fair bit over the internet. For example, throughout this game, you've been pretty chilled and not contributed a great deal. However, the second I put a theory forward that included you, you went berserk. I didn't even vote you, but you're acting like it's some kind of personal offence. Seems like a very big reaction for something pretty small.

Whatever you think, there are posts which are pro-town and posts which aren't. Yes, it's true that not everyone posts exactly the same, but there are aspects of their behaviour which can be seen as either scummy or not.

I have half a mind to vote you, but I'm sticking with atomic. However, FOS: Dark Blueberry, let it be known.

Originally Posted by Central African Republic*

Um, overreaction much?

Nope. I've been voted and picked on for my posting styles in every single mafia game I played up till now. People just can't seem to accept someone has a different posting style from what they've known. It's really frustrating. See, you haven't even played enough games with me to know my posting style - and I haven't played enough mafia games yet to form a certain habit.

I'm honestly confused here. If we don't try and scumhunt based on posts and posting styles, what do we scumhunt on? I'll give you a hint: if you say votes, I will scream/headdesk/facepalm/all of the above. Posting styles say a lot about a person, and can be a very big indicator of whether they're mafia or not, ESPECIALLY if their posting style changes mid-game. If they're usually quite laid back and passive-aggressive in their posts, then it can be very odd if they suddenly started tunnelling on someone for seemingly no reason. Or, if they're aggressive and as soon as someone points it out, start to not be as aggressive, because they don't want to appear scummy. Every townie wants to appear the perfect balance of scummy - not enough to be considered for a lynch, and not too little so that you're a good choice for the mafia to kill.

If the content of your posts "don't have much to do with being town or mafia", then you are not playing this game correctly. The whole point is that people behave differently when placed in different situations. Granted, mafia started out as a live-action-role-playing game where behaviour was more easily read, but you can still read people a fair bit over the internet. For example, throughout this game, you've been pretty chilled and not contributed a great deal. However, the second I put a theory forward that included you, you went berserk. I didn't even vote you, but you're acting like it's some kind of personal offence. Seems like a very big reaction for something pretty small.

Like I said, I haven't played much mafia games to form a habit yet. You say you know about me based on what I posted up till now - but what exactly do you know about me? I could be aggressive to bring out people's reactions, or I could stay on the sidelines while still being active. I mentioned above - there is no guidebook or answer book that directly tells you what behavior makes one town or mafia. In the end, you're just judging people with the mere contents with mostly your guts.

As for behaviors? I'm guessing anyone could fake that. It shouldn't be too difficult for veteran players to fake their posting styles, no?

Please take that posting style discussion to that Mafia Philosophy thread. This can get quickly off-topic.

I'll post my impressions here:

Impression on Dark Blueberry (CAR*, you can use DQ for initials for her if need be) is iffy now on my end. She has contributed less in discussions but seriously though, she has displayed such behavior here in most games here. Other than her posts not being in main discussions, her actions have been on the fence. Still, yes, I've already said it but I'm keeping an eye on you too, miss >: O

Another name in my suspect list is Atomic, because that she's been onto lynching Karamazov though there was favorable proof to lynch Drumbeats over Karamazov in that situation. Along with Hawkeye who refused to switch votes to Drumbeats. CAR* made a good point too. I'll place a vote for now in case I sleep in and end up missing the phase. Likely I'll be able to return before the phase change as I don't have classes in the morning though.

VOTE: Atomic

Btw, I suspected mwto - she gave me the impression that she simply followed whatever lead to get a townie lynched. But grrr, you saw how that turned out. >< Wonder if she had talked with someone?

@Mintaka I disagree, all of this discussion is on-topic, as it's speculation over Dark Blueberry's alignment and whether or not what they're doing is scummy. As soon as it becomes general, THEN it'll be off-topic.

Originally Posted by Dark Blueberry

Nope. I've been voted and picked on for my posting styles in every single mafia game I played up till now. People just can't seem to accept someone has a different posting style from what they've known. It's really frustrating. See, you haven't even played enough games with me to know my posting style - and I haven't played enough mafia games yet to form a certain habit.

Previous games are previous games, not this game. If you've been lynched over and over, you're obviously doing something wrong.

Even if your posting style is "different", that doesn't excuse the fact that you haven't been scumhunting. You've literally contributed next to nothing to discussions. To put a term to it, you've just been posting filler, a way of basically saying "Btw, I'm here guys, so you don't think I'm mafia because I'm inactive". Unfortunately, that only works on people who lynch inactives, and I'm not one of them ;3

Originally Posted by Dark Blueberry

Like I said, I haven't played much mafia games to form a habit yet. You say you know about me based on what I posted up till now - but what exactly do you know about me? I could be aggressive to bring out people's reactions, or I could stay on the sidelines while still being active.

And like I said, it's not even much to do with your posting style, but more the content of your posts. And then as soon as you overreacted, THAT'S when your behaviour/posting style came into play. Reactions play a vital part in scumhunting, and you didn't react well to what I said at all. That in itself being a little scummy, add it onto the fact that I didn't even target you for a lynch or anything, and you're just being overly protective, which raises the question: "Why?"

Originally Posted by Dark Blueberry

I mentioned above - there is no guidebook or answer book that directly tells you what behavior makes one town or mafia. In the end, you're just judging people with the mere contents with mostly your guts.

... oh dear lord, please tell me you did not just say that.

The whole point of mafia games is deception, trickery, analysis of people's behaviour and the like. There ARE scummy and non-scummy behaviours that people do, otherwise we'd all just be going "LOOK AT ME GUISE I CAN RANDOMLY VOTE SOMEONE AND HOPE DEY'RE MAFS HYUK HYUK HYUK". Sure, there's nothing that says "If they do X then they MUST be mafia", but there is definitely "Doing X would be a very odd move for a townie to do, so it's more likely they're anti-town."

Another term for you: scumhunting. When you read people's posts and determine whether or not they're mafia DUE TO THEIR BEHAVIOUR. Phoenick's post where he basically quoted the entire thread was a prime example of scumhunting. He analysed their posts and how they reacted to certain situations, trying to make sure it's all consistent with each other.

I'm not even going to debate this with you any further, because categorising behaviour as 'scummy' and 'non-scummy' is a given in any mafia game, and it's not something you can dispute. If you can give me an example of scumhunting without looking at posts and behaviour that doesn't include voting patterns, then I'll concede.

Originally Posted by Dark Blueberry

As for behaviors? I'm guessing anyone could fake that. It shouldn't be too difficult for veteran players to fake their posting styles, no?

Well, yes, they could. But then, if someone's behaviour is distinctly out-of-character for no reason, then an explanation is in order. That's why Feliciano brought up about Phoenicks' "aggressiveness" - she found it uncharacteristic of him to be so forward with the game, and made her question why he'd be trying so hard when he doesn't usually. The simple answer: He's mafia trying to seem pro-town. Of course, that was just speculation, but you have to follow these things up or we just don't end up getting anywhere.

@Central African Republic*; I posted that as I read the discussion progressing into that general area (like if players usually would put that strategy into use or not), but I stand corrected. My apologizes.

Vote: Phoenicks

While Atomic strikes me as suspicious, a private conversation I had with Phoenicks, coupled with the nightkill make me believe he is mafia.

The conversation started with him telling me that "were off to a rough start and need to figure out who's mafia." So the then he asks me my suspicions and I name a few minor FoSs, which where Hawkeye, Paperhorse, and Feliciano. Hawkeye for his reaction to Mr. F's kill, Feliciano for her unnecessarily defensive reaction to Ryuus lynching, and Paperhorse for her quietness. Then he asked me about my town tells, and I only gave one name: mwto

Coincidentally Mwto died tonight.

Then he asked for a claim and I openly claimed to him (I'm vanilla). Then when I asked for his tells and claim. He responded with that "he's not good with tells so he's trying to figure out who couldn't be mafia together" and did not give any names to support this. On top of that, he claimed something that could easily be mafia.

Originally Posted by Central African Republic*

but you have to follow these things up or we just don't end up getting anywhere.

Thanks for the advice. At least I learned a little bit of something on mafia games here by listening (?) to your speech.

But people CAN change their behavior depending on the situation. No one stays the same 364 days all year. No one maintains the same attitude 24/7 - if we did, then we'd be robots. Also... you should probably know that we're humans here, even on the net. Of course we should just focus on the game itself, but the fact real life still affects us in one way or another is another factor. Someone who'd be neutral in the games could suddenly post aggressively and snap at people if they had a bad day - they could've been sick and missed school or someone rage-quitted on them over pokemon wifi. I KNOW that if that's the case, then they shouldn't post, but if they wanted to post anyways, then there's no reason to stop them - and thus their attitude could reflect what they are feeling in real life. It could coincide with certain timings.

But still... I half-agree with you.

Vote: Atomic

I've been busy with my own mafia game, so I really haven't been active. Go ahead and lynch me, I guess, I'm the restless spirit.

@DrumBeats; I'm sorry if my defense of Ryuu sounded scummy, but I do feel at least slightly responsible for his lynching, considering Phoenicks first voted me, then changed his vote to Ryuu because I'm his girlfriend and therefore we must be talking a lot about the game. Frankly, I find that logic neither very fair nor very solid. As I mentioned, I don't always have control over whether or not I'm active, and I feel like the fact that I couldn't be on to make any sort of defense spelled the end for Ryuu.

@Phoenicks; I've made it clear time and again in this game that I do not trust you because I feel that it's safer not to. Your meta-logic has so far directly led to the lynching of the lie detector and the watcher, and DrumBeats' conversation with you becomes quite suspicious with the timing of mwto's death.

Vote: Phoenicks

Update will be around 11pm Eastern time tonight.