Mini Mafia - Town victory! [October 13th]

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Originally Posted by Phoenicks

I'm not bad by the way. I'm bored. You can lynch me now.

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Sure thing sport.

With three votes on Phoenicks, if Feralize or Luminosity vote for him I believe it will be Twilight.

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Originally Posted by TheMissingno.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicks

I'm not bad by the way. I'm bored. You can lynch me now.

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Sure thing sport.

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*I'm not mad by the way.

Okay thanks for your thoughtful response to my post. Go ahead and lynch me now.

I'm honestly a bit reluctant to vote for Phoenicks, given that Feliciano displayed the same attitude when faced with being lynched. However, it doesn't excuse his rather WIFOM actions all game, avoiding questions, and lack of a real defense.

Well this puts me in an interesting position then. I'm willing to defend myself, nobody is attacking me with today's arguments. I could reprocess old posts but that requires a lot of effort for something with a very low probability of succeeding. And if I continue to tell you to lynch me, you definitely won't give me a trial (as Missingno. and @Feralize; have shown in their responses to me.) That's boring.

I know that I'm town. I know that if I die then the town loses it's gains from lynching mafia. I also want to play in a section where players give each other the chance to defend themselves. So I'm going to vote for myself if nobody removes a vote from me. If you remove a vote from me, we can play this game. If you don't, then I hammer myself. If I have to lynch myself to play a game with interesting town discussion then I will do it. From my point of view, it's a win-win.

So:

If someone doesn't remove a vote from me I will hammer on myself.

What if Feralize or Luminosity vote for me for this hubris? Then I still see it as a win -- people will never let me forget the time I thought I could save myself by voting myself.

(N.B.: I talked with Zenax and he ruled that threatening to vote for myself does not count as playing against my win condition under the circumstances.)

UNVOTE: Phoenicks
@Phoenicks; how about sharing who you suspect then

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Originally Posted by Midorikawa

UNVOTE: Phoenicks
@Phoenicks; how about sharing who you suspect then

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I did not expect that to work, let alone so quickly. Delivery as promised: I suspect Pichuboy > Luminosity > Missingno.

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Originally Posted by G-Mama

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Originally Posted by Phoenicks

At what point of a bandwagon do you suspect that mafia would jump, and why?

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Well, in a very basic sense, after the point where the beginnings of a bandwagon have already formed (so they are less likely to be blamed for starting a bandwagon which draws attention to them) but probably before the hammer because that also draws unwanted attention. Of course, that's a little oversimplified.

By that logic, looking at votes alone, the most likely culprits are: Feralize, Mido and myself (with Missy having voted first and Lumi having dropped the hammer)

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She initially puts the most suspicion on the two players who are confirmed innocent. G-Mama covered all her bases by talking about everyone. Most of what she said is WIFOM for this reason.

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In short, as I said I would be if Feli flipped town in the previous day phase, my major FOS at the moment is Mido.

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Same comment for ^.

I asked the question that prompted G-Mama to make that comment. She responded to others in the same post when she could've gotten away by only writing her treatise on bandwagon votes. If I had been her mafia partner, then this would have been an intentional strategy.

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Originally Posted by KidBeano

I never said I didn't suspect Feli enough to vote for her. G-Mama said that I put a FoS on Feli after he did, but at the point to which he was referring, I was merely pointing out a suspicious move that Feli had done - as you said yourself, one scummy move doesn't mean the culprit is scum. However, after her outburst was when I kind of leaned towards her lynch (because, as I said before, she basically softclaimed not-a-power-role, which means she basically softclaimed blue). She was being too touchy about the lynch for my liking. However, I didn't vote for her because I didn't want to waste the phase. Had it gotten to a couple of hours before and there were still only 4 votes on Feli, I would've voted.

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Here KidBeano wants to suggest that he did the rational thing and waited before voting. If it had been close he would've voted to get a lynch in, and he waited to ensure that there'd be more discussion. But: Why would he wait to see how many votes were on Feli? He had the power to argue against lynching her if he wanted -- especially since, as he refrained from voting, he counted on there being the time to debate.

Nowhere in the above does he say that he thought Feli was scum -- he just says that "I was merely pointing out a suspicious move that Feli had done". "One scumy move doesn't mean the culprit is scum." So he provided a second reason for why he says he would've lynched Feli: "She was being too touchy about the lynch for my liking." I don't see why he doesn't have more to say if he's playing with the expectation that phases will be longer.

I initially FOS'd (without putting it in those terms) Luminosity because she voted for Feli and then stated that random voting was the reason why she made that vote -- when three people (Midorakawa, myself, and Neon Borealis) had all voted on G-Mama for exactly such a random reason. However, Luminosity's response to my post was very self-critical. This surprised me enough to make me shut up. It's not the first reaction I'd expect when many players would interpret my questions to her as bait for an FOS to come. For this reason I don't suspect Luminosity as much as I did before.

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Originally Posted by TheMissingno.

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Originally Posted by Andrea Luminosity

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I didn't respond because there's nothing really to respond to. What do you want me to do, say "No guys I promise I'm not mafia!" or something? Come on now.

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No, but why not simply acknowledge it? Otherwise it looks like you either aren't bothering to read the thread closely or you're hoping his suspicion will just fade off into la la land.

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G-Mama made a vague comment. I'm not going to respond to something just to prove to you that I read the thread. I really don't care whether you think I read it or not.

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This exchange strikes me as town vs. town -- both participants are talking about the potential to look scummy instead of who is actually looking scummy. Missingno.'s flippant "I really don't care" strikes me as town -- it's what Feli and I both did. (That point only works from my point of view but it's late so I'm going to say it anyways.)

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Originally Posted by KidBeano

That's an interesting point you make about the flavour text. If it was indeed the mafia no-killing, we might need to be wary of any Doctor claims. Of course, if Feralize didn't get a result tonight, then we'll have a confirmed Jailkeeper.

Best to wait for Feralize to report her result before we make any decisions.

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Here KB understands what I originally meant -- the flavor text implies a no-kill, but it's more likely that there was a protection.

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Originally Posted by KidBeano

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Originally Posted by TheMissingno.

I think there's a significant chance that he didn't post this completely randomly. The fact that he knew this strategy gives credit to the fact that he would use it. If he did, then he'd certainly be the one to try to make things happen and control the vote. By this logic, I'm going to go with the only player who's still alive and did not participate in either of the votes.

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I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at here. What strategy? Why exactly does the post incriminate Phoenicks? While I agree that he has been overly-cryptic in his posts (what with his "You're welcome, mafia" and "Thank you mafia" stuff), I'm not seeing how G-Mama's post is justification for his lynch, as it seems more grasping at straws.

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Here, although KB does criticize the logic that lead to my lynch, he does not rebut Missingno. misstating the meaning of my post after Night 2. He criticizes Missingno. but does not defend me, even on a point where only posts earlier he understood exactly what I meant.

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Nonetheless, it seems my aforementioned theory was wrong, so I've got no hesitation now. Vote: Phoenicks.

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KB already posted in this phase -- in his response to me that I quoted above. He could have voted for me after I posted because the logic he uses to lynch me is "my aforementioned theroy was wrong". If that is his reason (it's not much of one at all), he could've voted for me immediately. Instead he voted after there was already pressure on me. If he had brought forward new reasons for lynching me as Missingno. had then I could ignore this point. But he chooses to cite reasons that are "aforementioned". If the theory had already been mentioned, why did he wait until voting for me?

From my point of view it's Luminosity, Missingno., or Pichuboy. I feel like Luminosity and Missingno. are town and Pichuboy is mafia. Responses welcome.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicks

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Originally Posted by TheMissingno.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicks

I'm not bad by the way. I'm bored. You can lynch me now.

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Sure thing sport.

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*I'm not mad by the way.

Okay thanks for your thoughtful response to my post. Go ahead and lynch me now.

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If you didn't have such a horrible attitude then you would have earned a better response from me. However since it looks like you've finally decided to play the game, I'll play too.

Unvote: Phoenicks


I want to start by going back to a post that I made which went un-responded-to.

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Originally Posted by TheMissingno.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicks

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Why should I need to point out any of my tells? I'm not supposed to be telling you what to think of me. As far as I see it, town-tells aren't set in stone - that's why it annoys me so much when someone starts a bandwagon on a mafia and then everyone claims to them. Unless I have logic that proves I'm clear, I'm not going to try and big myself up or drag myself down.

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Thanks. That's everything I was looking for.

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This statement bothers me. A lot. If it was really everything you were looking for, then surely you wouldn't announce it in thread unless you were just trying to intimidate Pichuboy or make yourself seem like you know more than you actually do.

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Since you're putting Pichuboy on the chopping block, I want you to tell me what it was that you were looking for. This is a textbook example of your cryptic posting that has occurred throughout the game. It would be so awesome of you to have made posts like your last post earlier on instead of making dodgy one liners and weird remarks.


Secondly, I want to address Pichuboy's post about Feli. Actually I want to compare G-Mama's post with Pichuboy's post. Basically Pichubro's only point was about Feli's activity comment, which Gama already had brought up breifly in his post. That could fit with the mafia strategy of one fella leading the lynches and the other lying low, but why would they repeat the same thing like that. It seems like if they were planning an attack, Pichubro would have left the stuff that Gama said out.

There's also the issue of Gama bringing up Pichuboy as a possible second mafia player. With only two mafia players in the game, it seems really dangerous to risk throwing your partner under the bus. Of course he could have been saying that to throw us off which would make this WIFOM, but I don't think that Gama really forsaw his death coming so soon.


Finally, in response to my not caring, what I don't care about is whether or not people think I read the thread. You're just going to have to trust me that I did read it because it would be stupid of me to sign up for a game and then not read the thread. I do, however, care about getting lynched. If I'm on the chopping block then I'll try as hard as I can to not get lynched whether I'm town or mafia. The only time I ever willingly laid down when there were votes against me was the first game I ever played, and that was because I was mafia and a town player had already admitted to me that she cheated by finding the mafia QT. Under normal circumstances I find it highly reprehensable to have such an attitude.


One more thing...

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Originally Posted by Andrea Luminosity

So, I'd appreciate it if you didn't lynch me or put yourselves in a position for the mafia to hammer (stack 3 votes on me) while I'm gone xD

Ciao!

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This brings up a good point. If Phoenix is not mafia, then how come mafia didn't hammer when there were 3 votes against him? It could be that mafia already voted for him, which would leave KidBeano again, or of course Phoenix himself.

So I'm between Phoenizzle and Pichubro now. Still leaning slightly towards Nicky, but I'd like to hear KidBeano's response.


One last last thing I promise. I'll only be able to post until 5:00 PM EST, so I have to get my vote in by then, and I WILL vote.

Just a heads up in case you guys and gals decide that I'm the most scummy: I won't be able to defend myself until 5 pm eastern time. Maybe a little earlier, it all depends on whether the lab we are doing today in ecology takes up the full allotted time. I don't have access to the internet on my phone.

So, I'd appreciate it if you didn't lynch me or put yourselves in a position for the mafia to hammer (stack 3 votes on me) while I'm gone xD

Ciao!

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Originally Posted by Phoenicks

I will say on the votes:

Day 1: I was at school
Day 2: I was at school
Day 3: I was at school

I'm rather confused as to how our 3-day phases keep disappearing. Probably the fact that this is what irks me most is not helping my case. Oh well, I've nothing to prove. Doesn't reflect poorly on my performance if everyone else rushes to lynch at every opportunity.

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Both of the phases lasted longer than a typical-game's 24 hours, so regardless of whether or not they were completed or not, you've had ample time to vote. How you can justify not-voting through inactivity is beyond me. As far as I read it, you weren't accused of not joining in the bandwagons, but rather not voting at all over the two days.

However, I'd like for Missingno to confirm what he actually meant.

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Not only did you all not give me time to rebut, you didn't give me substantive arguments either. I don't have the time to search for FOS's except to say that my suspicion was minorly on Luminosity before she responded to my questions.

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You're rebutting now - you've not been lynched yet.

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I'm not bad by the way. I'm bored. You can lynch me now.

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Hello WIFOM.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicks

Here KidBeano wants to suggest that he did the rational thing and waited before voting. If it had been close he would've voted to get a lynch in, and he waited to ensure that there'd be more discussion. But: Why would he wait to see how many votes were on Feli? He had the power to argue against lynching her if he wanted -- especially since, as he refrained from voting, he counted on there being the time to debate.

Nowhere in the above does he say that he thought Feli was scum -- he just says that "I was merely pointing out a suspicious move that Feli had done". "One scumy move doesn't mean the culprit is scum." So he provided a second reason for why he says he would've lynched Feli: "She was being too touchy about the lynch for my liking." I don't see why he doesn't have more to say if he's playing with the expectation that phases will be longer.

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That post was not the be-all and end-all of my suspicions. I could super-analyse every single little thing someone has done in this thread, but there's a fine line between scumhunting and just pure overkill. I don't see how you can call me out on something which you yourself have just admitted to doing:

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I initially FOS'd (without putting it in those terms) Luminosity because she voted for Feli and then stated that random voting was the reason why she made that vote -- when three people (Midorakawa, myself, and Neon Borealis) had all voted on G-Mama for exactly such a random reason.

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So you can do that, but I can't?

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Originally Posted by KidBeano

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Originally Posted by TheMissingno.

I think there's a significant chance that he didn't post this completely randomly. The fact that he knew this strategy gives credit to the fact that he would use it. If he did, then he'd certainly be the one to try to make things happen and control the vote. By this logic, I'm going to go with the only player who's still alive and did not participate in either of the votes.

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I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at here. What strategy? Why exactly does the post incriminate Phoenicks? While I agree that he has been overly-cryptic in his posts (what with his "You're welcome, mafia" and "Thank you mafia" stuff), I'm not seeing how G-Mama's post is justification for his lynch, as it seems more grasping at straws.

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Here, although KB does criticize the logic that lead to my lynch, he does not rebut Missingno. misstating the meaning of my post after Night 2. He criticizes Missingno. but does not defend me, even on a point where only posts earlier he understood exactly what I meant.

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Missingno didn't mention your first Day 3 post at all.

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KB already posted in this phase -- in his response to me that I quoted above. He could have voted for me after I posted because the logic he uses to lynch me is "my aforementioned theroy was wrong". If that is his reason (it's not much of one at all), he could've voted for me immediately. Instead he voted after there was already pressure on me. If he had brought forward new reasons for lynching me as Missingno. had then I could ignore this point. But he chooses to cite reasons that are "aforementioned". If the theory had already been mentioned, why did he wait until voting for me?

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I never said that was my only reason, I said during Day 2 that the theory was the only thing PREVENTING me from voting you. You've proved it isn't true, and as such, I have no reason not to vote you anymore. You'll also notice in my first post of Day 3 that I said "Best to wait for Feralize to report her result before we make any decisions." That's exactly what I did, it's not my fault that I was beaten to voting.

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From my point of view it's Luminosity, Missingno., or Pichuboy. I feel like Luminosity and Missingno. are town and Pichuboy is mafia.

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Fair enough.

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Responses welcome.

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:)

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Originally Posted by TheMissingno.

This brings up a good point. If Phoenix is not mafia, then how come mafia didn't hammer when there were 3 votes against him? It could be that mafia already voted for him, which would leave KidBeano again, or of course Phoenix himself.

So I'm between Phoenizzle and Pichubro now. Still leaning slightly towards Nicky, but I'd like to hear KidBeano's response.

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Why would the mafia make an obvious hammer today? They'd just be lynched tomorrow. Whoever hammers today's lynched is going to raise a few eyebrows no matter what.

Sure, I'll respond, but first I need to know what exactly I'm responding to, because throughout that post you basically argued my innocence.

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Originally Posted by Andrea Luminosity

Just a heads up in case you guys and gals decide that I'm the most scummy: I won't be able to defend myself until 5 pm eastern time. Maybe a little earlier, it all depends on whether the lab we are doing today in ecology takes up the full allotted time. I don't have access to the internet on my phone.

So, I'd appreciate it if you didn't lynch me or put yourselves in a position for the mafia to hammer (stack 3 votes on me) while I'm gone xD

Ciao!

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I'll vote whoever I please and if you're not around to defend yourself, that's not my problem.

Vote: KidBeano


Phoenix said that he thinks that Andrea and I are town. Therefore if we lynch Pichuboy and he flips town, he'll have no one left to shift suspicion to. Pichuboy, however, is leaving his options open, so if we lynch Phoenix and he flips town, then he'll be able to throw the blame on Andrea or I, most likely I. Phoenicks knows better than to back himself into a corner like that.

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Originally Posted by TheMissingno.

Vote: KidBeano


Phoenix said that he thinks that Andrea and I are town. Therefore if we lynch Pichuboy and he flips town, he'll have no one left to shift suspicion to. Pichuboy, however, is leaving his options open, so if we lynch Phoenix and he flips town, then he'll be able to throw the blame on Andrea or I, most likely I. Phoenicks knows better than to back himself into a corner like that.

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... so you're voting me because I'm not tunnelling? You always have to keep your options open in a mafia game.

Implying that Phoenicks can't go back on his thoughts on who is town is ridiculous. What's he going to do, watch me flip town and then say "Oh well, I guess no-one is mafia, then!"? Ideas/suspicions/whatevers develop as the game does, so if one thing contradicts what you think, then that means you have to go back and reevaluate the game. No opinions should ever be set in stone.

Also, your "he'll be able to throw the blame on Andrea or I, most likely I" basically says you're doing this for self-preservation at least, as if you don't care who's lynched as long as it's not you. Tell me, why do you think Andrea isn't the person you're looking for? If you follow through with the lynch on me, and then lynch Phoenicks and he flips town as well, that's the game lost assuming there isn't a Doctor save.

I've not decided what I'm going to do if Phoenicks flips town, so you shouldn't assume that I'd try and lynch you. Luminosity's done herself no favours with that "Don't lynch me while I'm gone" post, so don't think I've just forgotten about her.

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Originally Posted by TheMissingno.

Vote: KidBeano


Phoenix said that he thinks that Andrea and I are town. Therefore if we lynch Pichuboy and he flips town, he'll have no one left to shift suspicion to. Pichuboy, however, is leaving his options open, so if we lynch Phoenix and he flips town, then he'll be able to throw the blame on Andrea or I, most likely I. Phoenicks knows better than to back himself into a corner like that.

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I like the logic regarding what Phoenicks is doing, but if PichuBoy flips town, I'd look at Andrea as well.

Vote: KidBeano

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Originally Posted by KidBeano

I'll vote whoever I please and if you're not around to defend yourself, that's not my problem.

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The only reason I said something is because there is a tendency to take a player's silence when they are on the chopping block as that person not having a defense or not caring about the game. I wanted people to be aware, if it was determined that I should be on the chopping block, that my silence wasn't voluntary. If I'd had a choice, I would've been sitting at home nice and warm rather than tromping around a creek in the cold and pouring rain.

I'm so sorry for caring about the town mislynching by lynching me. My bad.

I have a 700 words essay to write for Tuesday and roughly half a semester of historical stuff to study for Monday, so this phase will be extended until I come back from work tomorrow.