Mafia: Mafia of the Mages- 9-20-12 ENGAME: MAFIA WINS - Page 7

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Thread: Mafia of the Mages- 9-20-12 ENGAME: MAFIA WINS

  1. #91
    I'm a servant of the lord Midorikawa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    Here's the new tally so people can see since random voting tends to lead to confusion

    Synthesis IV-(The Man In Black, CrackFox, Mijzelffan, Phoenicks)
    Atomic I-(VeloJello)
    TheMissingno. I-(Callisto)
    Lavender Frost I-(Parma)
    Phoenicks III-(Soulmaster, mwto, Synthesis)
    Exor I-(Lavender Frost)
    Last edited by Midorikawa; 1st September 2012 at 07:25 PM.

  2. #92
    Hipsteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer Phoenicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    I thought that by now there'd be some discussion, at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by mwto View Post
    Notably two of those votes are for reasons that don't truly suspect him as mafia.
    TMIB/DCM voted Synthesis because he was the first to vote. CrackFox voted Synthesis out of OMGUS when Synthesis voted CrackFox. Mijz voted Synthesis to follow DCM's lead. Rarely does a real suspect appear on Day 1. That's okay. The more important element is watching how people respond. Day 1 is when nobody has a feel for the game. Townies are trying to find allies. Mafia are trying to find out how to best manipulate the town. The reactions left today will be tremendously more valuable later in the game -- when you can compare how people first groped in the dark to how they later interact with everyone else.

    Switching your vote without any good reason
    Day 1 scumhunting is about getting reactions and parsing scumtells from towntells. By voting Synthesis, I got your reaction. Now that you've called me scum, the immediate conversation will be divided between people who agree and people who don't. After my intentionally scummy vote and answer, your response was exactly right. It almost had to happen this way. That was my real reason for voting -- to set the stage. Now everyone has to respond. That's what to watch out for.

    especially when he's already going to be lynched
    Some friendly advice: if you're going to build a case against me, don't first point out that I'm scum for voting for the most-voted target before noting that he was going to be lynched anyways. You're defeating your own argument if you accuse me of trying to lynch someone who is already going to be lynched.

    makes me think you're mafia that wants to make sure no one ties up the votes to where there's a no lynch.
    It's in the mafia's best interests to tie up the votes. No Lynches give mafia the initiative. They are not in town's interests. I'm actually explaining this.

  3. #93
    I'm a servant of the lord Midorikawa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    @Phoenicks; Why would mafia tie up votes unless it was one of their own? It takes them longer to have to take down the town that way and gives the town more time to find them. Getting townies to lynch each other and the independents is one of the mafias main ways of taking down town for the win. No lynches don't help mafia and are actually counter productive to them unless their own is the main lynch target.

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    Hipsteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer Phoenicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    Quote Originally Posted by mwto View Post
    @Phoenicks; Why would mafia tie up votes unless it was one of their own? It takes them longer to have to take down the town that way and gives the town more time to find them. Getting townies to lynch each other and the independents is one of the mafias main ways of taking down town for the win. No lynches don't help mafia and are actually counter productive to them unless their own is the main lynch target.
    Let me clarify: no lynches are generally in the mafia's interests Day 1 because it gives them the initiative and also completely negates the chance of mafia being lynched Day 1. Lynching even a townie Day 1 jumpstarts the process that lets town coordinate and unite to defeat the mafia. Well-organized towns almost always win. Even postponing this process by a phase can be disastrous to town.

    You're right though -- mafia do want to lynch townies to save time. There's never one right answer and I don't mean to be simplistic. I shouldn't say that mafia would want to No Lynch -- just that No Lynching is a result more favorable to mafia than to town. (Also: if Synthesis was mafia, it's entirely probable that the mafia could use some secret voting power to save him from being lynched. After the Nightphase, the town might completely move on from Synthesis. Close votes aren't favorable to town because they can be manipulated.)
    *****

    This is tangential to my point anyways. I voted to get discussion moving, and I did. Before people were random lynching. Now we're getting something done. I'm fine with being the target of suspicion if it means that we can really begin.

  5. #95
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    @Phoenicks; You just said that the mafia could save Synthesis with some kind of secret lynch technique, and sounded sure of it. There is never any assurance of what abilities either side has, yet you are talking about lynch redirects with positivity. Also just because a townie gets lynched doesn't help town come together, I was just in a mafia when town had no idea who was mafia or not, and in another there was too much suspicion to figure out who is actual mafia.

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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    I'm not going to get caught up in this; I really don't feel compelled to defend myself. If you want to tunnel in on me, fine.

    I stand by what I said though: if Synthesis was mafia, they might have a power to save him. I would always prefer an unequivocal lynch vote over one where secret roles can change the outcome.

    I would've unvoted Synthesis by now anyways -- I got what I was looking for. Getting lynched myself would happen if I did, so I won't.

  7. #97
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    I'm not going to get caught up in this; I really don't feel compelled to defend myself. If you want to tunnel in on me, fine.

    I stand by what I said though: if Synthesis was mafia, they might have a power to save him. I would always prefer an unequivocal lynch vote over one where secret roles can change the outcome.

    I would've unvoted Synthesis by now anyways -- I got what I was looking for. Getting lynched myself would happen if I did, so I won't.
    If you unvoted Synthesis then it would lead to a no lynch as the votes would be tied between you two

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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    Isn't it already tied?

  9. #99
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    Isn't it already tied?
    No Synthesis has four on him, and there's three on you unless I missed someone changing their vote or the Man In Black's vote doesn't count because it wasn't bolded

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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    Misread the "IIII" as "III".

  11. #101
    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    It's Day 1. I would probably start with voting the host XDD Joking. We don't know who's who - and we might end up lynching someone innocent from Day 1. Also... wouldn't it be awful to get lynched on Day 1 when you barely did anything?

  12. #102
    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    Yeah, that's happened to me before.

    Uh, guys, you do know that Ryuu has work until 6pm PST, right? He's not even home yet, how could the phase change be so close that it was inevitable that someone got lynched?

    @mwto; I'll tell you why the mafia wouldn't intentionally tie the votes to defend one of their own - it exposes themselves. When you're mafia, your goal is to lie low, and intentionally tying the votes and forcing a No Lynch, even on Day 1, draws attention. Yes, being lynched and losing a valuable team member Day 1 sucks, but it's overall more advantageous if the votes aren't close enough that one vote or unvote either way will change it. There are a lot less mafiosi than town, remember.

    Consider this scenario: someone sparks a vote Day 1 against someone that happens to be mafia. The mafia all band together to tie up the votes and save this person, resulting in a No Lynch. This makes people suspicious (after all, why would the votes suddenly change for no apparent reason?), and someone investigates. They discover, through some means, that the person intended to be lynched was mafia. Now, that casts suspicon on everyone who tied up the votes to defend them, and suddenly, the whole mafia could be exposed.

    Mafiosi follow bandwagons, even against their own. They don't create them.

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  13. #103
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    @Feliciano; Well unless someone brings up real proof that someone might be mafia then there is no reason for any bandwagons. It's usually just mindless voting that results in a no lynch or a lynch by error or by people not paying attention to the vote count. Mafia could act as someone who just doesn't want to lynch a fellow townie. I don't vote a vote that will cause a lynch on day one unless I believe the person to be mafia. You also have to consider masons and lovers roles.

  14. #104
    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    Just because everyone could be townie doesn't mean that everyone is. I'm not in favor of lynching people without proof, but the fact is that you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. The logic of "I'm not voting because this person might be town even though I have no proof that they are" has never really worked, because it could be applied to anyone.
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  15. #105
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    Default Re: Mafia of the Mages- 8-31-12 Day 1: Catalis

    Quote Originally Posted by Feliciano View Post
    Just because everyone could be townie doesn't mean that everyone is. I'm not in favor of lynching people without proof, but the fact is that you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. The logic of "I'm not voting because this person might be town even though I have no proof that they are" has never really worked, because it could be applied to anyone.
    After day one I prefer there to be lynching, but lynching without evidence of someone being mafia is something I don't do unless evidence isn't really something to come by which is usually only with players whose style is inactivity

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