Thread: Fire and Ice Mafia --Fire Mafia won! (2/26/13)

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

Thanks Ice Mafia :)

Now anyways. VOTE: HumanDawn You said day one that you were just joke voting when you were jumping between but it didn't seem that way to me, plus you were worried about having votes on you and there's also the fact that you are so sure that Soulmaster or GM are mafia

>Day 1
>crappy grammar

Not going to bother trying to change your mind if that wasn't enough. Okay, how about we put 4 votes on you right now. You wouldn't be worried at all right? Right back at you, you seem so sure that I'm Mafia with your vote on me, going to the lengths of twisting a case on me, and basically disregarding any defense. I don't think there's anything wrong with being so sure that somebody is scum.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

@HumanDawn; so tel us why Soulmaster is .1% town. The only town role other than vanilla is doctor so we know your not a cop, plus its night anyways so you wouldn't have had a chance to check anyways if you were.

I started to 99.9% instead of 100% because Master Mew dislikes when I 100% somebody. It's Soulmaster. I was answering b)

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

It's easily something that could have been inferred from the dead townie.

Not really. That would be too risky if I were scum claiming that, since it could be just a coincidence, and that Chikorita made it in because it's Paperhorse's favorite Grass-type starter or something like that.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

Also note that he assumed that all were starters when the number of starters doesn't match the number of actual townies.

Pansage is actually a semi-starter, so it's no surprise he made it to the list. That would make Bulbasaur<3, Chikorita, Treecko, Turtwig, Snivy, Chespin and Pansage. Seven, true, but then that means that the Doctor is undeniably a Pokemon that isn't a Grass-type starter that has a caring nature, like Liligant<3. oh dear god if she dies in this game i'll have my feels ;_;

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

Mafia know each other and most likely know that each other are the same type of pokemon therefore a mafia could guess that town is grass types as the mafia are their own same types.

I figured that as well, but from that I couldn't figure that they would be all starters, except for the Doctor.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

While it could be a town tell, it's not enough to wave me from my suspicions when Human has yet to prove that he's town to me at all. Human is a cunning player and it wouldn't be wise to assume from one post.

How can I prove that I am a Townie to you? Scumhunting? Give me a chance, please. You said it yourself, no cop. All I've been telling you so far is the truth, and just the truth. I'm not the Doctor either.

Anyway, I'll just be going back to Vote: Soulmaster, as debating any further with such a flawed and twisted case against me isn't going to do the Town any good. It's more anti-town as it wastes the Town's energy trying to defend itself instead of finding scum, with good reasons and actual scumtells. The only good thing about you trying to tunnel me Midorikawa, is that it might sway the Mafia from Nightkilling me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVA2z_zbWwA

Soulmaster basically contradicted himself, saying that Gliscorman is possibly scum(FoSing him) for sheeping in the vote, when he did the same thing. His defense was that he put some meat into it, but as I and Feralize said, that was poor meat, and from my point of view, that came more of as an excuse to vote me to try to lynch me. That's just contradictory, and plain scummy. Midorikawa strangely doesn't wish to acknowledge that and instead waste her time trying to lynch me and twist a case on me. I'm willing to believe that Gliscorman's was just a pressure vote for now, but as it stands, I'd say that Soulmaster is a safe bet, and somebody that is worth lynching now that Dark Blueberry is out of the way being a distraction.

With that, I'd like to say some things in regards of Master Mew. (This was before the game started, and nowhere does it say that we couldn't discuss it privately before it started.)

[10/02/2013 22:31:40] Human: gl in ice fire mafia
[10/02/2013 22:31:51] Human: may we be scum buddies
[10/02/2013 22:32:33] Matthew Allen: haha
[10/02/2013 22:32:40] Matthew Allen: I debated not joining it, tbh.
[10/02/2013 22:32:47] Human: huh
[10/02/2013 22:33:27] Matthew Allen: Well, for one thing the setup has a lot of scum (it's balanced, but) there's a very high chance I'll be Scum - which I'm increasingly finding I don't like.
[10/02/2013 22:33:40] Matthew Allen: Also, Phoenicks and Paperhorse are hosting, which means they aren't playing. :(
[10/02/2013 22:34:18] Human: :/
[10/02/2013 22:34:21] Matthew Allen: Scum is fun with the right people, but usually it's just stressful.
[10/02/2013 22:34:57] Matthew Allen: I wouldn't mind being scum partnered with you, for instance.
[10/02/2013 22:35:25] Matthew Allen: Plus, double nightkills means I'm not likely to see day 2.
[10/02/2013 22:35:28] Human: i've been scum and masons with momoka for too many times
[10/02/2013 22:35:51] Human: maybe you'll be protected
[10/02/2013 22:35:54] Human: or be the same target
[10/02/2013 22:36:14] Matthew Allen: Yeah, it's possible the Mafia will WIFOM themselves out of killing me, thinking the other Mafia will try.
[10/02/2013 22:36:25] Human: maybe you'll be the doctor
[10/02/2013 22:36:29] Human: and protect yourself
[10/02/2013 22:36:50] Matthew Allen: Town will win if I'm Doc, because Scum will definitely try to kill me /at least/ once, probably as many times as it takes.
[10/02/2013 22:37:39] Matthew Allen: I'm in this awkward phase in my meta where people like lynching me /and/ nightkilling me.
[10/02/2013 22:37:53] Human: LOL
[10/02/2013 22:38:09] Matthew Allen: Mafia: "What if he catches us"
[10/02/2013 22:38:13] Matthew Allen: Town: "What if he's scum"

Just something to take note of ;). Also, note the kill on Sunburn. He hasn't said anything, which makes us get a Nightkill from the Ice Mafia(as the Fire Mafia would have to be really dumb to nightkill one of its own) that is uninformative.

[01/01/2013 22:50:48] Matthew Allen: I lurker-kill.
[01/01/2013 22:52:05] Matthew Allen: Killing lurkers means keeping the active people around - which makes for a much more fun game, while also denying the town any info from the kill.
[01/01/2013 22:52:27] Human: Ahh.

Now, this isn't an FoS of sorts on Master Mew, but just something to take note of.

Originally Posted by Master Mew

Originally Posted by Master Mew

Feralize: Do you suspect anyone at the moment? You poked holes in a couple of the weaker reasons behind the Dark Blueberry and Human wagons, but didn't actually commit to a position on either of them.

It's a little less useful now that Dark Blueberry has flipped Town, but I'd still like to hear from you on this.

As a general rule, I don't like letting someone slip through a Phase without giving their opinion on the top wagons. Makes it too easy for Scum to point back later and say they disagreed with the lynch, if they flipped Town, or agreed with it, if they flipped Scum.

Apologies for the lateness, I haven't been feeling well lately.

I really didn't have strong feelings about either bandwagon. I did post to point out what was said that didn't sit well with me, though, and I intend to go back over the thread as soon as possible to see if I missed anything.

@HumanDawn; I didn't realize placing a single vote on the person who I suspect the most right now was tunneling.I didn't go saying: Everyone vote Human. I'm 100% sure he's scum!" No I simply placed my vote. I'm not following your case on Soulmaster because I don't feel he's been suspicious. Your freaking out over a few votes on you is what is making you look suspicious in my eyes. If you want to pile four votes on me then go ahead.

Anyways: @FinalArcadia; @Zima; @Sourcandy;

How about sharing your thoughts on the current votes and Nightkills.

Way to ignore everything else.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

@HumanDawn; I didn't realize placing a single vote on the person who I suspect the most right now was tunneling.I didn't go saying: Everyone vote Human. I'm 100% sure he's scum!" No I simply placed my vote. I'm not following your case on Soulmaster because I don't feel he's been suspicious. Your freaking out over a few votes on you is what is making you look suspicious in my eyes. If you want to pile four votes on me then go ahead.

No that's not what tunneling is. Tunneling is when you're trying to lynch the same person every day phase, and only focusing on them. Actually, what makes him not suspicious? What makes him so special? So different than I am?

Good point about those 3.

Originally Posted by Soulmaster

Originally Posted by GliscorMan

You and Soul were the ones who seemed to be putting pressure to take my vote off. You pressured me to change it. However, @Soulmaster; called me out for doing "what Human did", when he did the exact same thing. Just something to note.

What do you mean "doing what Human did"? You voted with close to no reason, but you still gave a incredibly weak one. I actually gave a better one that had a little bit of meat on it.

Originally Posted by GliscorMan

Originally Posted by Soulmaster

Though I do think @GliscorMan; should be pointed out. Your vote was pretty close to what Human did. So FoS: Gliscorman

Remember this, Soul?

I wanted to put all of these side-by-side. Soul seems to fail to understand the surprising amount of hypocrisy, considering he voted with next-to no reason, as well.

Originally Posted by GliscorMan

Originally Posted by Soulmaster

Originally Posted by GliscorMan

You and Soul were the ones who seemed to be putting pressure to take my vote off. You pressured me to change it. However, @Soulmaster; called me out for doing "what Human did", when he did the exact same thing. Just something to note.

What do you mean "doing what Human did"? You voted with close to no reason, but you still gave a incredibly weak one. I actually gave a better one that had a little bit of meat on it.

Originally Posted by GliscorMan

Originally Posted by Soulmaster

Though I do think @GliscorMan; should be pointed out. Your vote was pretty close to what Human did. So FoS: Gliscorman

Remember this, Soul?

I wanted to put all of these side-by-side. Soul seems to fail to understand the surprising amount of hypocrisy, considering he voted with next-to no reason, as well.

Do you think that's enough to vote him? Who would you vote at the moment?

Originally Posted by HumanDawn

Do you think that's enough to vote him? Who would you vote at the moment?

I'm not really sure, yet. I want to hear what he has to say about it, first. Although he said he might not be able to make it here until later. At least the phases are 3 days.

As for the second question, I'm not entirely sure. I'm tempted to pressure you again for teh lulu, but I don't feel that would be optimal. Although the coincidence that Feralize and I were both not feeling well at the same time is remarkably amusing to me. I'm gonna wait a bit longer, nobody quite jumps out at me.

Well, that sucks :/ I was really looking forward to playing this too. Good luck fire!

Originally Posted by GliscorMan

Originally Posted by Soulmaster

Originally Posted by GliscorMan

You and Soul were the ones who seemed to be putting pressure to take my vote off. You pressured me to change it. However, @Soulmaster; called me out for doing "what Human did", when he did the exact same thing. Just something to note.

What do you mean "doing what Human did"? You voted with close to no reason, but you still gave a incredibly weak one. I actually gave a better one that had a little bit of meat on it.

Originally Posted by GliscorMan

Originally Posted by Soulmaster

Though I do think @GliscorMan; should be pointed out. Your vote was pretty close to what Human did. So FoS: Gliscorman

Remember this, Soul?

I wanted to put all of these side-by-side. Soul seems to fail to understand the surprising amount of hypocrisy, considering he voted with next-to no reason, as well.

What hypocrisy? I don't really see any of it. Again I actually gave a reason all you said was "a bit wishy-washy" or something along those lines. I'm too lazy to go hunt down the exact quote.

Originally Posted by Soulmaster

What hypocrisy? I don't really see any of it. Again I actually gave a reason all you said was "a bit wishy-washy" or something along those lines. I'm too lazy to go hunt down the exact quote.

Yes, yes, yes. But you're missing the direct fact that you had no reasons of your own, either, yet you're calling me out for doing the exact same thing that you did. But, to my knowledge, I've given reasons in explanation of my vote. There wasn't any actual explanation on your part, you know, like any sort of defense, regarding your bandwagoning.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

It's easily something that could have been inferred from the dead townie. Also note that he assumed that all were starters when the number of starters doesn't match the number of actual townies. Mafia know each other and most likely know that each other are the same type of pokemon therefore a mafia could guess that town is grass types as the mafia are their own same types. While it could be a town tell, it's not enough to wave me from my suspicions when Human has yet to prove that he's town to me at all. Human is a cunning player and it wouldn't be wise to assume from one post.

Fair, it could have been intentional - but I think it would be pretty tricky to infer that conclusion from just having seen one player flip, I think it's more likely that he inferred it from a combination of Dark Blueberry's flip and his own role pm. It could have been a lucky guess, though, fair enough.

If I can pick your brain a little more, what do you think of this:

Originally Posted by HumanDawn

Just something to take note of ;). Also, note the kill on Sunburn. He hasn't said anything, which makes us get a Nightkill from the Ice Mafia(as the Fire Mafia would have to be really dumb to nightkill one of its own) that is uninformative.

He mixed up DrumBeats' alignment (he assumes the Ice Mafia killed Sunburn, even though DrumBeats was killed that night, and was Fire Mafia - thus obviously the Ice Mafia kill). It seems unlikely that Scum-Human would mix up DrumBeats' alignment - either he was partners with DrumBeats or he wasn't. Unless he forgot which Mafia he was in himself.

That's two townslips by my count - do you think they could both be fabricated?

I'm leaning Town on Human at the moment based on these tells, but I'd like yours and others' input on them.

---

I'm also intrigued by the dynamic between GliscorMan and Soulmaster, though it's beginning to look a little like tunneling on both sides. I expected we'd find Scum in the first three votes on Human from Day 1, but interestingly it turned out to be DrumBeats (the first vote on Human, an RVS vote), not Soulmaster or GliscorMan. They still could be Scum (Ice Mafia, maybe?) but I doubt both Fire Mafia would jump on that early wagon. I'm prepared to stop tunneling the Day 1 Human-wagon and look into other leads now that one scum on that wagon has flipped.

---

I'd like to hear more from Zima, Sourcandy, Feralize, and FinalArcadia.

I'm guessing we'll find Scum in the quiet group.

Sourcandy re-confirmed her RVS vote for Dark Blueberry as a serious vote in post #71 - given that Dark Blueberry flipped Town, this seems like an unusual thing for Scum to do. I'll tack that up to a minor towntell, as it definitely would have been easy to go inactive until the end of the phase and say it was just an RVS vote when it went wrong.

Zima started the Dark Blueberry counterwagon in post #46 and hasn't really said anything since - granted hers was a serious vote, like Sourcandy's, which is sorta gutsy for scum at that point, but she might not have known the counterwagon would succeed. I'm having a harder time reading her than usual in this game for lack of activity, so I'm going to lean slight-scum on her until I hear more from her - she's been too inactive for my taste.

FinalArcadia skated through Day 1 on her Sunburn RVS vote, spoke up a little during the Night Phase, and has been M.I.A. so far today. If she's scum, she's probably Ice Mafia as I don't think Fire Mafia would RVS Sunburn and then turn around and kill him that night - it's possible though, if only for the WIFOM. Leaning slight-scum on her as well until I hear more from her.

Feralize abstained from RVS Day 1 but jumped in to question a couple weak links in the prevailing wagons. She's made one post since then, promising forthcoming reads. Poking holes in the Dark Blueberry and Human wagons without committing to a position on them really makes me uneasy. Leaning Scum here - might change when I hear her reads, but for now:

Vote: Feralize

Izvinitye, izvinitye. I just read through the thread again, and I'm getting townreads from HumanDawn (for the grass starter mention that was stated earlier) and slight scumreads from Soulmaster and GliscorMan. Their arguments seem very heated and don't seem to be getting anywhere. One of them is probably scum, but there is the off chance that they could be from both of the mafia factions. Right now, I honestly don't know who I should vote for because one of the two could also be the doctor who is trying his hardest to divert the attention placed on him. I'm going to observe more before I place my vote.

I do have to agree with Master Mew on Feralize, though. However, people have lives, so... ><

@Master Mew; Everyone inferred that Ice Mafia killed the fire mafia or did you misread Human's post?

Anyways there are nine of us left and three are mafia. Assuming we mislynch a townie today there will be two nightkills unless they choose the same target leaving us with six by the next day phase and if both kill townies we lose assuming the two mafia numbers count against us unless they don't then we're safe for another phase. So we do have to be careful just to note.

On another note I can't tell about Feralize or Sourcandy as they're invisible but I do know that FA was on earlier after I mentioned her and considering she's usually active in mafias and it's the weekend so she most likely doesn't have class, that would mean she chose to ignore my question and is avoiding conversation which means she's being very cautious especially considering in games with roles she usually claims to Human early on regardless of alignment but without private communications she can't do that meaning if she is mafia she can't trick him using a claim into thinking she's town and any slight slip ups could lead to her death. The debate between Soulmaster and Gliscorman provides the perfect set up for mafia to stay low.

So with my usual outlandish thoughts

UNVOTE: HumanDawn
VOTE: FinalArcadia

Originally Posted by GliscorMan

Originally Posted by Soulmaster

What hypocrisy? I don't really see any of it. Again I actually gave a reason all you said was "a bit wishy-washy" or something along those lines. I'm too lazy to go hunt down the exact quote.

Yes, yes, yes. But you're missing the direct fact that you had no reasons of your own, either, yet you're calling me out for doing the exact same thing that you did. But, to my knowledge, I've given reasons in explanation of my vote. There wasn't any actual explanation on your part, you know, like any sort of defense, regarding your bandwagoning.

No reasons? I voted Human for him acting really strange. As in not at all how he normally does. As well as voting, then another vote placed on someone else, and then he changed his vote to the said person. That is normally, at least imo, a slight scumtell.

@Soulmaster; @GliscorMan; The two of you have been debatating with each other which can distract others in thread so i would like to know what are your thoughts on Zima, FinalArcadia, Sourcandy, and Feralize's inactivity.