Thread: Ape Escape Mafia: End Game (8/19/12) Mafia Win

She was indeed a random kill, but I'm also glad they got out an independent and not another townie.

In my personal opinion that didn't warrant such a post. What I think happened here is that following the argument from last day, you decided to kill Lithuania since if one of you died, the spotlight would fall on the other. That is indeed tantamount to suicide, strategically-wise. Assuming you were both town/independent, an intelligent mafia would have left the both of you alive and let the town lynch one of the two today and killed the other tonight, or even kill someone else and let the town mislynch yet another innocent. Killing one of you two last night was a terrible move because they're potentially saving themselves one mislynch from the town's behalf. So for that, I seriously doubt that they would have killed one of you if you were both not mafia. Now, if one of you was mafia and the other independent (in this case, you and Lithuania respectively), yesterday's argument would have kept on today and one of you would have ended up gotten lynched. If you, we would have had a cleared independent and a dead mafia. If her, we would have had confirmation of you being mafia and we could have lynched you tomorrow. No matter what, it was a lose-lose situation for the mafia. Killing Lithuania and freaking out can be a last attempt you've tried to get the spotlight away from you, because what kind of mafia would kill someone they got in an argument with the day prior, right.

Vote: Belarus. Feel free to prove me wrong.

In my personal opinion that didn't warrant such a post.

I tend to overreact when I'm scared. I'm very paranoid and freak out easily when something's important to me...As I'm sure you can guess by now.

And this is exactly what I was expecting, hence the freakout.

*sigh*

My claim. Randomly-chosen JOAT. I'm willing to give my list of abilites if you want it, public or private.

A common mafia ability is silencing, right? It makes sense for me to have that as an ability choice if I were mafia. Of course, there's the luck factor... But then we have a confirmed mafia, the professor, who makes/gives out the gadgets. Considering that, he would have some sort of related ability to mine. An option...forcing the ability I got to be something else. Then, would I have not chosen silencing instead of screwing myself over and killing her?

Any mafia member would want to kill one of us so the other wasn't cleared when one died. It's a smart move for them, since I'm pretty sure they'd expect one of you to say something like this and leave me in a place where I can't defend myself too well... Let's be honest, here, Lithuania is hell of a better player than me. She can do offense and defense, while I'm horridly weak in both catagories. Get the bigger threat out first, while leaving the weaker to the...well, lack of a better term, sharks.

To be perfectly honest, this is probably just playing right into the mafia's hand... Get the two JOATs out in two phases. How nice for them.

Originally Posted by Belarus.

My claim. Randomly-chosen JOAT. I'm willing to give my list of abilites if you want it, public or private.

Feel free to claim to me what those abilities are privately, but that's not so important. Still, I'm interested how your role works. Do you get a new ability every nights? Which roles did you get on night 1 and 2?

A common mafia ability is silencing, right? It makes sense for me to have that as an ability choice if I were mafia. Of course, there's the luck factor...

That sounds like I tend to do as mafia; take your role and twist it to make something else out of it. That usually makes for pretty believable fake claims.

But then we have a confirmed mafia, the professor, who makes/gives out the gadgets. Considering that, he would have some sort of related ability to mine. An option...forcing the ability I got to be something else. Then, would I have not chosen silencing instead of screwing myself over and killing her?

I don't really see how you would have been saved if Lithuania was silenced. Depending on your reaction to it the town would most likely have went after you or her anyway.

Any mafia member would want to kill one of us so the other wasn't cleared when one died. It's a smart move for them, since I'm pretty sure they'd expect one of you to say something like this and leave me in a place where I can't defend myself too well... Let's be honest, here, Lithuania is hell of a better player than me. She can do offense and defense, while I'm horridly weak in both catagories. Get the bigger threat out first, while leaving the weaker to the...well, lack of a better term, sharks.

But like I explained above killing one of you last night just takes away the chance of killing another innocent, so it would have been a stupid move from them anyway.

To be perfectly honest, this is probably just playing right into the mafia's hand... Get the two JOATs out in two phases. How nice for them.

Neither of the people who died last night were JOATs and killing one of you two last night like what just happened is only helpful to the town in the long run, so I don't think the mafia planned this.

Either way, I'd like to have everyone's opinion on this.

@Zenax;
I think Lithuania, besides having a one-shot lynch immunity and a one-shot kill immunity, was a JOAT. A snippet from her role PM.

Originally Posted by Neonsands

Role: Having already mastered the use of all gadgets, you have the ability to pick whichever you’d like and use it freely. However, since you are now acting on your own, you have limited access and may only use each once. Also, because of your experience, you have one lynch immunity and one kill immunity.

Gadgets:
*Snip*

My thoughts on the situation: Belarus.'s reaction was incredibly bizarre, so over the top that it feels a little forced. Heck the whole interaction between Lithuania and Belarus. the previous day was bizarre. It could be that the mafia is trying to frame her or it could be a last ditch attempt to try to get suspicion off of her ("would I be stupid enough to kill someone who had called me out in thread as being mafia?").

Also, this is interesting:

The Catchers were on guard. There was plenty of suspicion passing around, and they didn't want to get wrapped up in everything. Their plan for the evening? Take down the biggest threat.

So, unless that's just there for dramatic effect, then Lithuania was the mafia's biggest threat? It could be because of Lithuania calling out Belarus. (she joke voted Nytie Day 1 and Gengar, the other person she voted that day, is dead) or because Lithuania's role was the most threatening that they knew of (and I could see her having claimed her full role to Belarus). I could see the mafia going after Lithuania first for her role (the JOAT part) and the second time also because of her calling out Belarus. Both would be pretty stupid moves (but again reverse psychology/WIFOM).

If Jake is in this game, and to my knowledge no one has counterclaimed Belarus. (and that requires every player to closely follow this game, which I doubt is the case), then I think he'd be town (he was controlled by Specter in the first game) or independent (being Spike's best friend). I guess the question is, would he be in this game? Apparently he is only seen in flashbacks, whereas Spike is an unlockable character. Also (directed to anyone who played the first game) does Jake use gadgets in that game? I've seen him driving a car (that spit out little mini cars) in a boss battle, but not using gadgets. Considering he is a minor character (the chances that he's in the game are lower, so less risk of a counterclaim) and is human (so could hypothetically use gadgets), I think claiming Jake would make for a decent fake nameclaim. Also, he had been mentioned by Gengar as a possible non-mafia human.

@Belarus.;

To be perfectly honest, this is probably just playing right into the mafia's hand... Get the two JOATs out in two phases. How nice for them.

For the mafia to know both of you are JOATs, they'd have to have either rolechecked Lithuania or she would had to have claimed her full role to someone (you?). And the fact they went after Lithuania night 1 would point more to the latter. Admittedly a pretty stupid move but WIFOM and sometimes the mafia does make mistakes.

Also, as for the "why would I claim such a scummy role" comment from Day 2, you did also say you felt trapped between a rock and a hard place. I could see Lithuania claiming, you being super nervous because you are mafia and she wanted you to claim back, and you claiming your "scummy role" because you couldn't think of anything else under pressure.

Finally, your statements that you are not a good player. Considering you've also used the "would I be so stupid as to do ____" earlier in the game, it seems like you are pushing that a little hard/are a little desperate.

For now, Vote: Belarus.

And holy shit that's long. And it sounds like word vomit (what happens when you add stuff as you come up with it) xD

@Luminosity; It's been a long, LONG time since I played the first Ape Escape (Well, it's the only one), but if I remember correctly, Jake uses Gadgets in the GauntletRace type things against you.

Now, I'm wondering here.... if Jake is in this game, I'd think he would be another independent, but if he isn't, the only logical JOAT would be whatever this new main character is. And I sure as hell don't need to point the alignment out there.

Thus, Vote: Belarus.

Originally Posted by Baron Dante

Luminosity It's been a long, LONG time since I played the first Ape Escape (Well, it's the only one), but if I remember correctly, Jake uses Gadgets in the GauntletRace type things against you.

Now, I'm wondering here.... if Jake is in this game, I'd think he would be another independent, but if he isn't, the only logical JOAT would be whatever this new main character is. And I sure as hell don't need to point the alignment out there.

Thus, Vote: Belarus.

Thanks! I found him using a fan/propeller thingy in one race on YouTube and some gadget to help him swim in another.

I think it's most likely for Jake to be independent as well (he doesn't actually do anything in Ape Escape 2 and he's Spike's best friend). And Belarus. hasn't said she's independent, so yeah Jimmy is who I'm thinking she likely could be (whose voice actor seems to be the same as Ash Ketchum's...so weird).

Yup. I just find it unlikely that Jake even is in the game if he only appears in flashbacks though.

Oh look what I found

Jake - Ape Escape Wiki

According to this, in the first ape escape game, jake was in specter's control for most of the game. Make of this what you will.

In the belarus matter, i think that her insisting that she and lithuania not having an alliance and subsequently fake revealing of a quicktopic is just weird talking.

For this, vote: belarus.

Originally Posted by Belarus.

My claim. Randomly-chosen JOAT. I'm willing to give my list of abilites if you want it, public or private.

Can you explain this a bit more please? Are you given a new ability once a night, or something?

Originally Posted by Lithuania

I am the most broken Jack-of-all-trades ever. XD

I can Roleblock, Evade a night action, cancel a vote, get a picture of a role, can spy, watch, double a vote, remove doctor protection, and vig-kill, one time each. :)

Originally Posted by Nytie

That... actually makes me doubt Gengar's claim less :/ Good to know though.
I'm going to look so mafia if he turns out to be town XD So was your night action evasion used up when you were attacked?

Originally Posted by Lithuania

No actually. XD

I forgot to mention my one-time lynch-immunity and used up nightkill-immunity.

If I don't survive to endgame, I will be so surprised. XD

^These are the PMs where Lithuania claimed to me. I only revealed her role name and not her ability yesterday at her request.

As to the nightkills, Gengar's flipping town makes me pretty sure that Belarus. is mafia.
Vote: Belarus.

EDIT: @Parma; Jake being in Specter's control might mean that he's town in this instance.

Originally Posted by Belarus.

Originally Posted by Zenax

So if you see her as a townie, why would you post that post asking why the hell they would kill an independent?

I see her as a townie, sure, but... For the mafia, she's not a direct enemy; she can scumhunt all she wants, but in the end, with her alignment... It doesn't affect their numbers, so she wasn't a needed kill.

Funny thing about independents - they're neither town nor mafia. They will side with either, or neither, or both, to fulfill their win requirement(s). So if the mafia felt that she was a threat to them, in any way, regardless of alignment, they would kill her.

Considering that, he would have some sort of related ability to mine. An option...forcing the ability I got to be something else. Then, would I have not chosen silencing instead of screwing myself over and killing her?

It's very possible you knew she was a JOAT - through claim or rolecheck or otherwise - and decided that was more of a threat than you anticipated. Your magically disappearing QT is suspicious as well. If she claimed to you, as she did to Nytie, that she was a "Roleblock, Evade a night action, cancel a vote, get a picture of a role, can spy, watch, double a vote, remove doctor protection, and vig-kill, one time each" JOAT (which really is a jack of all trades...) what on earth would compel the mafia to let her live? And really, I feel that in the interests of balancing roles, why not give the mafia its own JOAT?

Vote: Belarus

Given Belarus. reaction and her defense of why she said it, I have to agree that this might be the best choice;

Vote: Belarus.

that she and lithuania not having an alliance

Never said we didn't have an alliance...

Can you explain this a bit more please? Are you given a new ability once a night, or something?

List of abilties given to me, Neonsands RNGs, and I get an ability based off what number he rolled. He didn't really tell me the chances of getting which one.

Roleblock
Role Picture
Evade a night action
Vote Cancel
Spy
Watcher
Doubles Vote

Night 1, I got a roleblock. Considering how useless it was that night, I didn't use it. Night 2, I was roleblocked, so what I got didn't really matter, but for the sake of being complete, I had gotten evading a night action.

Finally, your statements that you are not a good player. Considering you've also used the "would I be so stupid as to do ____" earlier in the game, it seems like you are pushing that a little hard/are a little desperate.

It's true? Flonne, the only reason I won in Star Trek was because I claimed bomb Day 1.

I am pretty desperate. >.> First time I've been JOAT, and I'd like to be actually useful, and not get myself killed because I was stupid. That and other things...

And the fact they went after Lithuania night 1 would point more to the latter.

Our alliance started after Night 1. It started on the 24th. I couldn'tve known she was a JOAT to try to kill her Night 1.

Whenever we make an alliance in a QT we share with others, we always delete the posts straight after so they don't see it.

I don't really see how you would have been saved if Lithuania was silenced. Depending on your reaction to it the town would most likely have went after you or her anyway.

Better than killing her. When she was silenced, she couldn't bring anything to the table. :/ So, that means that, easily, the guns could've shifted to her, leaving me alive for another night to use my ability.

If she claimed to you, as she did to Nytie, that she was a "Roleblock, Evade a night action, cancel a vote, get a picture of a role, can spy, watch, double a vote, remove doctor protection, and vig-kill, one time each" JOAT (which really is a jack of all trades...) what on earth would compel the mafia to let her live?

She only claimed vig, roleblock, and evading a night action to me.

you claiming your "scummy role" because you couldn't think of anything else under pressure.

Nameclaiming's allowed in this game. When I once claimed PNG under pressure, look where that got me later; about to be lynched. That was even without having to think up a fake nameclaim. I'm trying to be careful here, considering I don't really want to be caught up in a web of lies with fake name/roleclaims.

There was plenty of suspicion passing around, and they didn't want to get wrapped up in everything.

That implies they're not caught up in it yet. Meaning I'm not mafia.

I'm going to edit this as I reread through the posts...So...yeah...

Also, I kinda assumed you'd think I was independent, considering my claim. ^^;

EDIT:

Yeah, okay, I think that's it... :/

Vote: Belarus.

I'm not 100% about this vote, but we need to get shit done.