Thread: Who was the Better Contest Side-Rival, Harley or Ursula?

So sometime last year, I did a little rant about character recycling, and emphasized how much I hated well-written characters being replaced by cheap knock offs, using Harley and Ursula *and Conway* as an example. However, since I made that post, I`ve talked with fellow fans and found they they do indeed hate Harley like a Seviper hates Zangoose, and yet are only mildly annoyed at Ursula.

I myself prefer Harley over Ursula, mainly because he came first, but for varying other reasons too. He had *though silly as they were* more reasons to dislike May over Ursula's single reason to hate Dawn *though, I don't like the girl much either, but a pokemon's tastes shouldn't be a deciding factor*. Whereas Pachirisu disliked Ursula's poffin and sealed Dawn's fate, May showed ignorance towards a pokemon that was clearly Harley's favorite, and then insulted it to his face, followed by an unintentional attack on his culinary prowess. Again, very silly reasons, but more substantial than Ursula's one.

Not to mention, Harley is better written and had a better development, but I feel this way about all of Advanced when comparing it to the fast-paced saga of Sinnoh. We had a short look into his past and got to clearly see all sides to his personality, not just the bitter part. After all, how many rivals can say that they openly show affection to their pokemon?

But I digress. This isn't about MY feelings, if it were I`d stick it in my blog. No, this is about the loyal users of this most wonderful site. So Bulbagarden I ask this: Who is the better contest rival, Harley or Ursula, and why?

Approved.

I loved them both as characters, but I have to give the edge to Harley because:

- He actually beat May in a Contest, we never got to see Ursula beat Dawn

- Harley came up with several schemes during Contests to win, including working with Team Rocket to lock Ash/Brock/Max in a vault and carry them away

- He made sexually suggestive comments to both May and Drew, and even dressed up as May'



The way I see it, Ursula had the potential to be even more amazing but they waited far too late into DP to introduce her. I really wish she replaced Kenny as Dawn's second rival, and we could have seen a three-way female bitchstorm between Dawn/Zoey/Ursula.

They were both cool rivals and overall characters, but I liked Harley more because I felt like he brought more to the table. Ursula is just bitchy, whereas Harley is clever AND bitchy. She didn't cheat like Harley did, which made him more entertaining for me. When I first watched Ursula's debut episode, I really thought that she was only going to be CotD. She didn't appear again for another fifty episodes, and by that time, I was really set in my mind that that one episode was the last time we would see of her. I was relieved when she did finally come back, though, since she was the only interesting rival Dawn had, lol.

Ursula's only main problem is that she was introduced late, as The Fighting Misty (Gliscor'd, lol?) said. The writers probably realized how boring Zoey, Nando and that other guy whose name I can't even remember were. Ursula was much more entertaining than the three of them combined in all of their appearances compared to her three. But yeah, I still feel like Harley was better, if only because he had more time to establish himself on the show.

Harley without question. Ursula wasn't really much of a character, she just looked like one. Harley was really funny, Ursula was just spiteful.

.....

Oh, I'm sorry. It's just that even comparing these two are so... ugh... yeah. XD

Harley, definitely. It's not even a contest in my book.

Ursula was fine. Didn't mind her too much, but I wasn't really her biggest fan either. Out of all Dawn's rivals, she's definitely the best. But that's not a title that should be too hard to accomplish.

Ursula just didn't make much sense in my book, and in the end, she remained as the inferior rival to Dawn, not even having a single victory against Dawn in her bag. Not much of a rivalry, 'ey? Her attitude could be hilarious at times, as she was just being plain immature and didn't make much sense, much like Burgundy, so in that department she was really entertaining. But, yeah... She didn't feel like much of a rival. However, I always rooted for her when she battle Dawn, but that just wasn't enough.

Harley, on the other hand, is like one of my favorite characters EVER. He's hilarious, evil, clever, hilarious, bitchy, fabulous, entertaining, and hilarious. It's true that all of the rivals May encountered throughout her journey were great in their own way, but Harley was just in a whole other league. He did, just like Ursula, suffer through lots of defeats, but finally managed to come through in the middle of the BF Saga, beating May and gaining a ribbon. And the best thing was that May didn't get her revenge for that until the Kanto Grand Festival, and the fact that Harley even won all of his five ribbons before May only established him as a dangerous rival even more.

Harley is probably the most entertaining character I've ever seen in the animé. Or, he's second to Iris. Or possibly third, taking Cilan into account too...
Seriously, I love that dude, IlovehimIlovehimIlovehim. Oh God, do you realize how extremely happy I got when he got a reference in May's cameo? Like seeing May again wasn't enough to make me overjoyed. :p

Both were fun characters, but Harley wins for actually managing to get a victory over May, while Ursula unfortunately didn't get such an honor over Dawn, and for being more entertaining, overall.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

I loved them both as characters, but I have to give the edge to Harley because:

- He actually beat May in a Contest, we never got to see Ursula beat Dawn

- Harley came up with several schemes during Contests to win, including working with Team Rocket to lock Ash/Brock/Max in a vault and carry them away

- He made sexually suggestive comments to both May and Drew, and even dressed up as May'



The way I see it, Ursula had the potential to be even more amazing but they waited far too late into DP to introduce her. I really wish she replaced Kenny as Dawn's second rival, and we could have seen a three-way female bitchstorm between Dawn/Zoey/Ursula.

Bitchstorm yes. Yes absolutely. If this had happened in DP, it totally would have made up for the fact that DP was all but complete shit, just barely a cut above BW.

Originally Posted by Callisto

They were both cool rivals and overall characters, but I liked Harley more because I felt like he brought more to the table. Ursula is just bitchy, whereas Harley is clever AND bitchy. She didn't cheat like Harley did, which made him more entertaining for me. When I first watched Ursula's debut episode, I really thought that she was only going to be CotD. She didn't appear again for another fifty episodes, and by that time, I was really set in my mind that that one episode was the last time we would see of her. I was relieved when she did finally come back, though, since she was the only interesting rival Dawn had, lol.

Ursula's only main problem is that she was introduced late, as The Fighting Misty (Gliscor'd, lol?) said. The writers probably realized how boring Zoey, Nando and that other guy whose name I can't even remember were. Ursula was much more entertaining than the three of them combined in all of their appearances compared to her three. But yeah, I still feel like Harley was better, if only because he had more time to establish himself on the show.

Now I KNOW you ain't bashing on Nando, the only character to actively pursue ribbons AND badges at the same time. He needed way more screen time to showcase his unique desire XD and he's my favorite character in all of DP.

And yes, Harley was very well developed and had more time to shine than Ursula did, so I guess I can't hate her entirely for being a cheap Harley impersonator. She was introduced too late and couldn't really stand out on her own, but still, she was just, ughhh, really annoying. I guess this COULD have been rectified with more screentime, but honestly, I still feel like she's just a hollow echo of what was once great. I feel like she always had been and always will be, but I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by Chiplet

.....

Oh, I'm sorry. It's just that even comparing these two are so... ugh... yeah. XD

Harley, definitely. It's not even a contest in my book.

Ursula was fine. Didn't mind her too much, but I wasn't really her biggest fan either. Out of all Dawn's rivals, she's definitely the best. But that's not a title that should be too hard to accomplish.

Ursula just didn't make much sense in my book, and in the end, she remained as the inferior rival to Dawn, not even having a single victory against Dawn in her bag. Not much of a rivalry, 'ey? Her attitude could be hilarious at times, as she was just being plain immature and didn't make much sense, much like Burgundy, so in that department she was really entertaining. But, yeah... She didn't feel like much of a rival. However, I always rooted for her when she battle Dawn, but that just wasn't enough.

Harley, on the other hand, is like one of my favorite characters EVER. He's hilarious, evil, clever, hilarious, bitchy, fabulous, entertaining, and hilarious. It's true that all of the rivals May encountered throughout her journey were great in their own way, but Harley was just in a whole other league. He did, just like Ursula, suffer through lots of defeats, but finally managed to come through in the middle of the BF Saga, beating May and gaining a ribbon. And the best thing was that May didn't get her revenge for that until the Kanto Grand Festival, and the fact that Harley even won all of his five ribbons before May only established him as a dangerous rival even more.

Harley is probably the most entertaining character I've ever seen in the animé. Or, he's second to Iris. Or possibly third, taking Cilan into account too...
Seriously, I love that dude, IlovehimIlovehimIlovehim. Oh God, do you realize how extremely happy I got when he got a reference in May's cameo? Like seeing May again wasn't enough to make me overjoyed. :p

....I love you ;3;

The only thing that could have made May's return better was if Harley came with her to try and beat the snot out of her, because I could totally see him doing that. Though, she did say she was having a losing streak, maybe Harley was already creaming her? One can only hope.

I like both characters, but Harley wins out here. He's just a much more entertaining character and has a hilarious reason for being May's rival, while I thought that Ursula had a more reasonable motivation to become Dawn's rival by comparison. It also helps that he did manage to beat May once, which was kind of cool. Ursula does stand out more compared to Dawn's rivals, although that probably isn't saying much either, and I do think that she deserved to defeat Dawn on-screen as well, or at least get an on-screen victory. She clearly had skills and I still remember being blown away with her evolution appeal in the Sinnoh Grand Festival, but I do think it was a matter of being introduced too late into the series to make her stand out compared to Harley. If she was the secondary rival instead of Kenny and was able to defeat her in the Contest when Kenny did instead, then I think she would have stood out more. I'm not sure if that would have made her better than Harley, but I think she would have been closer to that at least.

Both of them were bitchy, both of them had a weird set of Pokemon, and both of them exploited their rival's weaknesses to the fullest. In that case, they are even. Still, it bugs me how they managed to give Harley a win in the Battle Frontier, the smallest Contest arc ever, while Ursula didn't get one in the biggest arc ever (She was introduced late, but it was around 60 episodes in both occasions.) Ursula had the fate of being Dawn's rival (boring...), while at least Harley was fun. I vote for the gingerbread-cookie, Mayley!

EDIT: How could they give Ursula no wins while giving one to Kenny, the dumbhead who didn't even go past the Appeals? That was the problem with Dawn's Rivals and Contest arc. Better Contests, less sense.