Thread: Is the show going overboard with the whole, "Type Advantages aren't everything" deal?

Honestly I don't care if they want to show type advantage effectiveness, try to write battles that go against types, or just quit in the middle of writing the episode to go get drunk and play ping-pong.

I would however, like for them to pick a side and stick to it!!

I'll bring up a hilarious part of Hoenn where Ash battled a guy's Duslcops with Pikachu. Pikachu rushes Dusclops with Quick Attack and it has no effect, and we're told normal attacks like that aren't effective on ghost types. Sure, I'll go with that.

Then the very next episode, Skitty is hitting around that very same Dusclops with Doubleslap, also a normal attack!

Writers, stop with the being not making sense! It's causing me to not type sentences properly!

As long as it's not too farfetched (sp?) I'm generally OK with it; they're certainly not as bad as OHKO's. Though besides that, I do hate inconsistency--as mentioned above--and whenever move types work against Pokemon that are supposed to be immune to the attack. The writers seem to be doing better with that every series however, though they still don't seem to know that Shadow Ball is supposed to be a Ghost-type move or that Flying-types like Tranquil are part Normal-type.

I think mis-matched type victories can be more entertaining anyway.

I really don't think anything has changed. The same has been true since episode 1, and won't change. Yes, it is very overkill at times but the quality (or the lack thereof) supports Pokemon's signiture corniness. And on a side note, I happened to be estatic at the sight of "Thunder Armor".

^And lol to the shadow ball comment. That and energy ball to a smaller extent.

One thing that bugs me was James commanding Yamask to attack Tranquill with Shadow Ball. Its never explicitly shown that it hurt Tranquill but its a bit weird that he did it the second time around.

It seems that the writers are intentionally having Ash use Pokemon at a disadvantage. Its perfectly understandable when he is out of other Pokemon or that particular Pokemon has a history with the other but would it kill them to have Ash use a type advantage when he can?

^Ash actually does select Pokemon to his advantage quite often in gym battles, etc. Often when he doesn't it's because he has a plan up his sleeve.

^ Not anymore, though. Oshawott vs. Pansage? Without a plan? I mean, yeah, Oshawott won, but I just wish Ash would either learn his types, or use plans. I bet it's this garbage Brock's feeding him about Fire being super effective to Water. *Grumble*

They do go a little overboard in some cases, however since usually only the newb trainers in the anime think type advantage is the absolute determination for the game, I don't have too much of a problem.

Yes, yes, oh God yes, this season is overdoing it with "type doesn't matter". If TCPI wanted to advertise the games like the show is supposed to, they would stop stuffing this insane strategy down our throats and have Ash lose if he has a type disadvantage so he can use strategy, typing, and inherent talents to win and only lose through outfoxing, not lunkheaded survivalism.

If TCPI wanted to advertise the games like the show is supposed to, they would stop stuffing this insane strategy down our throats and have Ash lose if he has a type disadvantage so he can use strategy, typing, and inherent talents to win and only lose through outfoxing, not lunkheaded survivalism.

Yeah, problem is it seems whenever Ash actually tries to win through pure strategy he loses because his opponent uses brute force as opposed to most of his battles when he tries brute force he loses through strategy. Poor guy can't seem to get a break unless it's a Super-Ultra Mambo-Tango-Foxtrot-DEM-powersurge moment.

One particular fight he was in that made me head-to-wall alot was his fight with Tobias. He uses Heracross to battle Darkrai, and of course Tobias puts Heracross to sleep. Ash, as I expected, actually used strategy and had Heracross use Sleep Talk to plow into Darkrai as if to say "Screw your cheap-ass sleep attacks, I'm freaking Heracross." But Tobias beats Heracross anyway (of course eyeroll) and he has the nerve to tell Ash...

"Hurr hurr, you need more then type advantage to beat me! :B"

Dude, he didn't just use type advantage, he clearly used a strategic move. He knew you'd use that cheap sleep attack like you always do and he had a counter to it, the only reason he lost was because you're bringing a freaking sledgehammer to a fistfight!

And it's only gotten worse in Unova, in this region having the sheer gall to use type advantage is apparently the equivalent of puppy-kicking. ._.'

You know, back in the days before BW (and after the anime stopped fudging with type immunities like they did in Kanto... to a degree, anyway), I was alright with it. It's true that type advantages aren't everything, even in the metagame, but in Ash's case it didn't bother me all that much during say, AG and DP. Especially in DP, Ash always seemed to have a hidden twist-based strategy (however convoluted it was) to make up for his poor choices based on type. And for the most part, his choices in Sinnoh's Gym battles made sense. I only recall the battle against Candice being the WTFMATE lineup, given that it composed of one single Pokemon with a type advantage, and the rest had disadvantages (with one even being double-weak to it). But since that only happened a grand total of once in DP, it was kinda funny and I let it slide. Every now and then Ash would have poorjudgment back then, though usually it could also be blamed on unnecessary plot conveniences and/or writing; such as Ash using Buizel of all Pokemon against Kenny's Empoleon, and we all knew that was only made because Ash would have utterly wiped the floor with Kenny using any other Pokemon and for whatever reason the writers wanted to pretend Kenny was important in his last episode.

For BW, however, like many story and character elements, it feels like Ash is disregarding type logic just for the hell of it. He's shown to have very minimal planning/strategy against the Gym Leaders he fought against so far and it's really just inexcusable when he gets the advantage of knowing what he's going up against before he chooses his Pokemon. And worst of all, it sounds like this is going to be a recurring theme for Ash's battles, that being that he chooses the worst possible choice type-wise against his opponent and apparently that's always been his nature or whatever, except it hasn't. There's very little of Ash's thought process being shown before he chooses his Pokemon in BW, so overall it's just really stupid. Like I said, shaking things up and showing that type advantages aren't everything is good if it's done in moderation. Since BW started, though, it hasn't been done in moderation. It's practically the norm for how Ash battles and this is just another part of why he feels way more nerfed than he should be. And this is where the series likes to pretend the previous series never happened 90% of the time.

So yeah, as of BW I do think they're overdoing it. What worries me is that since they're treating this like a running gag (with Cilan saying things like "yeah, that's Ash for you; it wouldn't be him if he chose anything else") that they'll keep doing this for the entirety of the series instead of show, I dunno, some accumulated experience out of Ash that shows that while type advantages aren't everything, they certainly aren't completely and totally meaningless, either.

I could at least feel that vibe with previous series; respecting the relevance of type match-ups in battle. I have no idea what the hell BW is aiming for here, but it seems like "fuck type advantages!" is to BW as "evolving your Pokemon is bad, don't do it!" was to Kanto.

As long as it's done right, I'll watch it with interest. They did it wonderfully in DP, but in BW it only kinda intensified Ash being stupid.

Yes they definitely over do it. At first it was a cool idea, but seeing generally weak Pokemon overcome huge type disadvantages is a little bit of cheap story telling.
Am sick of Ash picking weaker types to go against stronger types, though Iris does it too occasionally.

Also what gets my goat is using the same types, such as Water vs Water, why???
Worst of all, pre-evolved forms beating their evolved forms, eg an Oshawott beating a Dewott, no chance!

From what I've seen and heard about the latest Japanese ep, they certainly did so. (I won't be seeing it stateside for a while, so I'm going by screenshots and other people's descriptions.) Having a Dragonite take two direct Ice Beams without flinching makes it look like Dragon's weakness against Ice just doesn't exist.

I don't mind the idea of Pokemon winning against opponents with the type advantage, but it should be done through strategy and outmaneuvering said opponent, not by simply rewriting the rules for that one battle.

Originally Posted by Shinneth

And for the most part, his choices in Sinnoh's Gym battles made sense. I only recall the battle against Candice being the WTFMATE lineup, given that it composed of one single Pokemon with a type advantage, and the rest had disadvantages (with one even being double-weak to it).

In defense of battle against Suzuna, Satoshi's Mukuhawk already had three attacks that would help it out the battle, Infight(Close Combat), Brave Bird and Tsubame Gaeshi(Aerial Ace), so did Glion(Fire Fang and Steel Wing). Mind you, while Satoshi didn't know about Suzuna's Charem, he still knew about Yukinooh beforehand, who was still weak to Flying. Even Hayashigame had more than any reason to be in the fight, as Satoshi was specifically using the techinique Shinji's Dodaitose teached him(and to increase the awesome, he actually did it after Hayashigame later not only got back his speed through Rock Climb, but did it with the help of it. They actually managed to combine two of the different tactics and made it work.)