Thread: Should the dubbing companies of the Pokémon Anime replace BGM and songs?

Originally Posted by matt0044

Originally Posted by adyniz

After watching today's episode, I would HIGHLY recommend TPCi to "not" touch the background music at all, unless it is extremely necessary to do so.
-___-

Depends on your definition of "extremely necessary."

In case if the original version uses Best Wishes as an insert song then it is okay for TPCi to replace it with Black & White or any other dub song. That is what I meant by "extremely necessary".

Originally Posted by adyniz

Originally Posted by matt0044

Originally Posted by adyniz

After watching today's episode, I would HIGHLY recommend TPCi to "not" touch the background music at all, unless it is extremely necessary to do so.
-___-

Depends on your definition of "extremely necessary."

In case if the original version uses Best Wishes as an insert song then it is okay for TPCi to replace it with Black & White or any other dub song. That is what I meant by "extremely necessary".

That is in no way extremely necessary, or necessary at all. TPCi can use the instrumental version of an original Japanese theme song, and although I believe that the dub should not be edited in ANY way whatsoever, I would prefer it if they did keep the songs even if only in instrumental form. The vocals can interfere with the dialogue of the episode. Still there is never a moment when replacing a song with an American created song is actually necessary. Especially when the songs are always guaranteed to be the most awful sounding thing in existence. (That is my opinion, please don't get angry if you actually like the dub music)

I sincerely hope that with Best Wishes Season 2 TPCi give the rights to FUNimation or some other company THAT RESPECTS AND LISTENS TO ITS FANS, cause at least then we would be able to start enjoying the dub again. Better yet, TPCi should give the rights to Siren Visual or that new Australian distributor Hanabee which is headed up by the CEO of Siren Visual, because they are the world's best (in my opinion) at releasing subtitled versions of anime that no other company wants to touch. I've asked Siren Visual about releasing Pokémon with in Japanese with English subtitles before and they replied that it would be a licensing nightmare because they would have to go through TPCi, but still TPCi should give some company the license to release the original version with English subtitles. Then we could watch the series with all of the beautiful sounding music that Shinji Miyazaki has composed, and enjoy it in the way that we can't with TPCi.

Originally Posted by Giovanni

That is in no way extremely necessary, or necessary at all. TPCi can use the instrumental version of an original Japanese theme song

And that is what we call "replacement". I have no objection if they use the JP music, I absolutely love it. I was just referring to the conditions where they have no choice but to replace the music.

Does the BGM have Japanese lyrics in it?
>Yes
Replace it, either with translated lyrics or an instrumental version. (personally I like the latter. I feel that sometimes the lyrics get in the way)
>No
No need to change it, unless there's some other reason (Don't ask me--like I would know)

Regarding the opening theme songs: Translate them. Same music, English lyrics that fit with the theme and tune.
Funimation did it right with One Piece. They can do the same.

Originally Posted by Miar

Does the BGM have Japanese lyrics in it?
>Yes
Replace it, either with translated lyrics or an instrumental version. (personally I like the latter. I feel that sometimes the lyrics get in the way)
>No
No need to change it, unless there's some other reason (Don't ask me--like I would know)

Regarding the opening theme songs: Translate them. Same music, English lyrics that fit with the theme and tune.
Funimation did it right with One Piece. They can do the same.

Yeah, but the lyrics should rhyme too. For insert song, they can just leave out the vocals. They did it with Watashi Makenai in May's first DP episode.

Plus, I wish Viz (who dubbed Naruto and Bleach) were given the right for dubbing after 4kids. At least, Naruto and Bleach were handled well.

Originally Posted by Giovanni

Originally Posted by adyniz

Originally Posted by matt0044

Originally Posted by adyniz

After watching today's episode, I would HIGHLY recommend TPCi to "not" touch the background music at all, unless it is extremely necessary to do so.
-___-

Depends on your definition of "extremely necessary."

In case if the original version uses Best Wishes as an insert song then it is okay for TPCi to replace it with Black & White or any other dub song. That is what I meant by "extremely necessary".

That is in no way extremely necessary, or necessary at all. TPCi can use the instrumental version of an original Japanese theme song, and although I believe that the dub should not be edited in ANY way whatsoever, I would prefer it if they did keep the songs even if only in instrumental form. The vocals can interfere with the dialogue of the episode. Still there is never a moment when replacing a song with an American created song is actually necessary. Especially when the songs are always guaranteed to be the most awful sounding thing in existence. (That is my opinion, please don't get angry if you actually like the dub music)

I sincerely hope that with Best Wishes Season 2 TPCi give the rights to FUNimation or some other company THAT RESPECTS AND LISTENS TO ITS FANS, cause at least then we would be able to start enjoying the dub again. Better yet, TPCi should give the rights to Siren Visual or that new Australian distributor Hanabee which is headed up by the CEO of Siren Visual, because they are the world's best (in my opinion) at releasing subtitled versions of anime that no other company wants to touch. I've asked Siren Visual about releasing Pokémon with in Japanese with English subtitles before and they replied that it would be a licensing nightmare because they would have to go through TPCi, but still TPCi should give some company the license to release the original version with English subtitles. Then we could watch the series with all of the beautiful sounding music that Shinji Miyazaki has composed, and enjoy it in the way that we can't with TPCi.

This times a million. You just put those words straight in my mouth. This is what I have been trying to tell you guys. Thank you, Giovanni.

Thanks, BladeLight52. Still, I'm just amazed that so many people don't understand this, the concept of a perfect dub.

This is the thing that confuses me almost as much as TPCi themselves. How can so many people not understand that whether or not the dub music is better is entirely irrelevant. (On that note, someone should give John Loeffler's synthesizer to the MythBusters so they can blow it up with 500 pounds or more of explosives.) The whole point of dubbing an anime into English is so that people in English speaking countries can experience the incredible world of anime, so we can enjoy the beautiful animation, the complex yet amazing stories, the awesome characters and the beautiful music. We should be able to experience the excellence that is Pokémon and the beautiful music from the best musician in the world Shinji Miyazaki, but we can't.

A few years ago, Naruto was shown on TV early in the morning (during the block of kids cartoons) in a heavily edited form, yet barring the opening and ending theme songs which were removed most likely to make way for commercials, the original music was left in tact. Clearly kids don't have a problem with Japanese music, so why can't TPCi leave it alone? There is so much variety in it, yet TPCi gives us their synthesized garbage that makes me literally feel sick every time I hear it.

Best Wishes Season 2 is another chance for them. Dub it like FUNimation, or I'm gonna watch it on KeyHole TV like I do with Pokémon Smash. (To anyone who doesn't watch Pokémon Smash, I would suggest getting KeyHole TV immediately. The quality isn't the best, but being able to legally watch the original versions of the episodes with all of Shinji Miyazaki's music is a truly incredible experience.)

I'm probably repeating myself a bit here, but anyone who calls themselves a fan of Pokémon needs to understand that keeping the original music (and the theme songs, the eyecatches, the segments after credits... the stuff we get with the dub of most other anime series in existence) is of the utmost importance. It adds to the emotion of the episode. Who cares if a vocal song is used in the original version? It should be kept like everything else. If an instrumental version exists, use that. I wouldn't care that much. If one doesn't exist, just keep the Japanese vocals anyway. FUNimation does, and it doesn't interfere one bit with the episode of whatever anime it is. People need to understand that not one single song should be ever replaced, and no silence should be filled in with music that doesn't deserve to even be called music. The theme songs should be dubbed too. Like Miar said before in this thread, FUNimation does this with One Piece. The theme songs are so superior to the awful things that John Loeffler believes can be called music. Many people seem to like TPCi's Battle Frontier theme song. Listen to the original Japanese theme song for Battle Frontier. It is an excellent song.

Okay that's my rant for the day. I might go on about this for a bit too long, but WE WANT CHANGE.

The only thing I think should be replaced are the opening themes. They are excellent and far superior to the japanes ones.

Translating the songs rarely works because the song wasn't written with other languages in mind.

And leaving them untranslated in just them being lazy.

I really don't get what 4Kids had and TPCi has against ending themes. Even if Cartoon Network doesn't always show them, that doesn't excuse them from making one. It isn't impossible to translate a Japanese ending theme into English, either. Take a look at "Type: Wild," for example. Of course, even though it was completely localized (Masara Town is even called Pallet Town), it was only used for Pokémon Encore.

I don't get it at all.

To use a different fandom as an example, the producers of Power Rangers stopped bothering with putting bloopers in the end credits because Fox Kids always ran ads over them. So I'd imagine TPCI doesn't bother since Cartoon Network always does ads there. I know nowadays everything is put on DVD, but I bet they don't feel it's worth the effort just for that.

Originally Posted by Musashi

I know nowadays everything is put on DVD, but I bet they don't feel it's worth the effort just for that.

Yeah, whoever heard of DVD Extras? /sarcasm

Let me make this very clear: You guys are free to rant about whatever injustice you feel that the dubbing companies do to the original work by using their own original music, but that does not give the green light to attack other fans as "being not real fans" just because they may enjoy the dubbed music. Enjoying music and how it aesthetically affects your viewing of the show is, like with most things, subjective. You are no more less a fan or less of a person for thinking contrarily to the majority.

Also, you have to consider that because this has been going on for so long, it may actually cause the music to be written differently. Knowing that some of the music will be replaced may allow Miyazaki to go in a direction for a piece that he wouldn't have been able to if it were the only version there would ever be.

but that does not give the green light to attack other fans as "being not real fans" just because they may enjoy the dubbed music.

I regrettably said, a few posts ago, that I was baffled at people who actually liked the dub music. However, I did not say that they aren't "real fans." I'm sorry for flipping out like that. I was pissed off at John Loeffler's comment about Mr. Miyazaki's music. I know the interview happened 5 months ago (and this isn't relevant to the topic at hand, but please hear me out on this). I don't know what made Loeffler be full of himself while insulting Mr. Miyazaki's music while praising his own. Even to this day, I'm still mad and wondering at the same time. Again, I apologize, Aestivate. It's my own fault for being disrespectful towards those who don't care about the music.

In all seriousness, I don't think keeping or replacing BGM would have a huge effect on the show in general. Keep em, it makes no difference to most and the kids won't notice as well...