Thread: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

In regards to Iris's character at the moment, I think the writers are doing enough with her and in-regards to the positive and negative aspects of her character, I'm not a afraid to admit a character I like has had some flaws in their writing. Starting off with the bad, literally the only thing I can find that would even be bitching worthy is the fact Axew learned Outrage. Axew learning Outrage was a bit of an eyebrow raiser, but hey didn't the say happen with Scraggy's Focus Blast and Hi Jump Kick. Yes, was Scraggy taking hits he should not have been taking and surviving from Simipour and Simisage in the same way Axew was with Golett? Yes, except Luke isn't a battler who trains, he's a cameraman. Akkie and Chakkie were both trainers who trained, especially Chakkie who had a near psychotic look on her face most of the time. Axew taking those Gyro Balls(Speed based attack, Axew was running uber slow) and Mega Punch were much different from Scraggy taking a plethora of attacks from those fully evolved opponents. How is it any different? Not by much at all, but there's this mentality and double standards that exist that says "_____oh it's okay." than there's this "Iris____BURN THE WITCH!!". Hey, just sayin'. I'm not saying Iris's Axew pulling off Outrage was out of the left field, but at the same time there's no denying the same thing went on with Scraggy as well. Yes, I'm being honest. Outrage is literally the only complaint noteworthy thing I can think of.


Next, Iris's personality, interactions, behavior, and "deadpan snarker" persona. These are what you make them. Iris's personality is just that, Iris's personality. I really don't get the idea that Iris supposedly hates traveling with them when that isn't the case at all. In the preview for Ash's last Gym Battle, Ash is about to give up against Homika and she screams her freaking lunges out telling Ash to not give up, would someone who isn't a friend do that? She appreciates Cilan's food, she's healed Bianca's Shelmet, Ash's Scraggy, and Cilan's Pansage. She saved Ash from a hotspring of boiling hot water in the Sandile episode, she saved Ash's Pikachu from splattering on the pavement in the TR VS. TP special. It is absolutely irking that people claim Iris isn't a true friend to Ash and Cilan simply because she doesn't like Cilan's pointless sparkling and calls Ash a kid at times, looking completely at the negative side of things without looking at the good part isn't how I see things. Even in the Deino episode Iris told Cilan and Ash to leave her and she would stay with Deino until his trainer returned, but they decided not to, and even spied on her during her story with Deino. She was putting her friends first and she even mentioned that she knew very well Ash wanted his Driftveil Badge badly, so they shouldn't have to wait for her. It just seems a bit off base to claim she isn't a true friend. Almost as much as it is that a certain Pokemon gets so much grief every time it gets lil' bit of screen time simply for looking like an ass. Her personality is strictly a "your mileage may vary" scenario, you either like it or you don't there's no real "in between" in regards to her personality, just the same way as many feel about Cilan's sparkling or Ash's "lovable loser/Goku-ish/Shonen" behavior. Take her personality out of the situation and look solely at her character and development, you're not likely to see anything nice in a character who's personality you dislike regardless, so I'll shut up about the personality part now. :P

She has had development and I can see that. She's changed as a character, in the Drill Buster episode her Excadrill's motives for not listening to her were because of her own ignorance regarding understanding him, she apologized and had an emotional night with him and made a promise to understand him better in the future. That's growth in her character, change and development. The Iris before that episode said stuff along the lines, "Ugh, you're still mad?" but in that episode she took responsibility for her own actions and tried her best to get things back on the right track with her Excadrill. Charizard and Mamoswine, those two Pokemon stopped obeying because they lost respect for their trainers after evolution, Iris's Excadrill on the other hand stopped obeying cause Iris didn't understand his feelings. Iris's Excadrill's behavior was more endearing and relatable for me, which is why I feel the development in the episode was done justice.


The Deino episode show Iris still does have a long way to go, and even stated out loud by the narrator that the experience helped Iris understand Dragons further and brought her "one stop closer" IIRC to her goal of becoming a D-Master. That's development in her character and growth in becoming better, since the Dragon Master goal also requires being able to understand Dragons hearts completely, and she did it by using her Elder's story.

In the Clubspolosion, Georgia showed she got development as a character too. She hasn't lost her personality that we've come to know, but she roots for Iris silently not only that but she wants to see Iris improve and become a befitting Dragon Master not to mention in the Vanilluxe episode her and Iris left on good terms with each other. There was no hint of bitchyness, there was no snarkiness, there was just the sole "I guess I understand you in a way" scenario between the two. Learning to understand each other in a way and Iris working with Georgia's Vanilluxe helped them grow in a way and their rivalry as well. Georgia even said at the end of the episode that she caught that Vanilluxe specifically for Iris.

In the Vanilluxe episode, Iris's got over her fear of Ice-types(Though this isn't for certain, they didn't really outright say it was fixed and seemed to be implying it's a "one step at a time" deal. It wasn't outright said she completely conquered her fear and I'm okay with it being conquered or not being, since this episode gave development either way not being conquered would just add more)There was a struggle and she was truly grateful for Vanilluxe's help with dealing with the Electric Moss. Despite the fact Iris dislikes ice types, she didn't just keep screaming as she realized that the only way she could save herself was from overcoming it and teaming up with Georgia's Pokémon. Whether you like Iris or not, I'm truly glad she belongs to the characters in BW who actually develop.


Next up, Emolga. Strictly a "your mileage may vary" situation, I've always thought of Emolga as being "lazy" not disobedient. She had no problem what-so-ever battling Bianca's Pignite and Minccino for a while and left once Minccino came out, she had no problem battling Emboar for a while but the promise of a Flamethrower was to worrying for her, she had no prob facing off against Sawk, even in the Durant episode she had no problem helping Ash train Swadloon, Ash even thanked her afterwards. TPTB intended on making Iris's Emolga lazy imo, and that's her personality and that's not changing, just like how Snivy has a snide personality, or how Krokorok loves his glasses(though this might be touched upon in the future).


Next up, the latest complaint regarding Iris. Her Axew not being a Fraxure, the writers are going somewhere with this. I'm not complaining about it, the writers even foreshadowed it twice in the Connoisseur Foongus episode with Iris being happy over Opelucid Gym being closed and fearing going to Opelucid City next. Sadly for her that detour isn't going to do her much good since Drayden is slated to appear in BW2 either way, away from the Opelucid Gym and explaining why it's closed. She's even trying to get better with her Dragon Master goal by having a training battle against Cynthia's Garchomp in the upcoming episode and Cynthia seems to be having her Garchomp suppress her power just for Axew's sake. It's training and battling parts of her goal being touched upon and might help her with understanding Dragons further, hell the Dragonite episode for sure seems to be going to do that with Iris possibly dealing with a Dragonite and possibly Hydreigon.


Honestly, I still can't seem to find anything that is complaint noteworthy about Iris besides Outrage. In fact now that I think about it, Iris doesn't get nearly as much as she should. She still lacks another Dragon and the sheer amount of screentime and focus Cilan gets regularly even though she's a sidekick too. *shrugs*


My main prob with these debates is there's never anything new added. Nothing I haven't already seen before. "Iris sux? Oh yeah." "Don Battle Tournament Win/Outrage DEM?" "yeah yeah", posting the same thing and liking it over and over daily with everyone agreeing is not "debating". Since the Don Battle Tournament's Outrage Golett battle, there has literally been nothing justifiable to criticism Iris about and this whole "Iris's Axew not being a Fraxure" thing is apart of the story line. It is literally the same shit everyday and it goes around in loops each time. It's that exact type of discussion I want to steer clear of, like a disease.



So, in other words. I congratulate you if you got through this too long; didn't read post. In summary I think Iris has had a few rocky moments but, overall her character is on the right track development wise and this upcoming Iris/Drayden arc. will really help her character even more, specifically in-regards to Axew's development as a Pokemon.

Originally Posted by Gotpika

She appreciates Cilan's food, she's healed Bianca's Shelmet, Ash's Scraggy, and Cilan's Pansage. She saved Ash from a hotspring of boiling hot water in the Sandile episode, she saved Ash's Pikachu from splattering on the pavement in the TR VS. TP special. It is absolutely irking that people claim Iris isn't a true friend to Ash and Cilan simply because she doesn't like Cilan's pointless sparkling and calls Ash a kid at times, looking completely at the negative side of things without looking at the good part isn't how I see things.

Nobody is stating that Iris isn't friendly towards Ash, Cilan, or to Pokemon in general. Iris needs to display some sort of kindness towards the other main characters if she is a protagonist in this anime. All of these comments about Iris's interactions with the other characters stem from her "deadpan snark" attitude, and how this is the only way that she ever seems to contribute to the BW trio dynamic.

Iris is always seen putting characters like Ash and Cilan down just for having a different mindset than her or a different approach in doing things than she does. The point here is that nobody, not even Iris, benefits from those side comments. Iris' negative remarks about certain characters like Cilan don't provide any sort of interaction with the other main characters; they simply ignore her and continue on with what they had planned on doing prior to the interruption.

That's not to say that there haven't been a few moments in this series in which Iris does step outside her comfort zone, and concerns herself with the wellbeing of other people. Her actions in the Deino episode are an example of that.

She's changed as a character, in the Dragon Buster episode her Excadrill's motives for not listening to her were because of her own ignorance regarding understanding him, she apologized and had an emotional night with him and made a promise to understand him better in the future. That's growth in her character, change and development. The Iris before that episode said stuff along the lines, "Ugh, you're still mad?" but in that episode she took responsibility for her own actions and tried her best to get things back on the right track with her Excadrill.

Iris didn't change that much. Based on what had transpired during that episode, Iris wouldn't have been aware of her pokemon's motives if Cilan hadn't informed her about them first. Iris hardly changed or developed herself when she managed to warm up to Excadrill that night. All Iris had done was remind Excadrill of the time that they spent together as well as supervise the training that Excadrill had already been undertaking himself.

That growth was one-sided.

The Deino episode show Iris still does have a long way to go, and even stated out loud by the narrator that the experience helped Iris understand Dragons further and brought her "one stop closer" IIRC to her goal of becoming a D-Master. That's development in her character and growth in becoming better, since the Dragon Master goal also requires being able to understand Dragons hearts completely, and she did it by using her Elder's story.

Iris's goal to becoming a Dragon Master doesn't seem to have many concise requirements to achieve it. According to BW027, a Dragon Master is one who is able to connect with Dragon-type pokemon and battle alongside them. It felt to me that Iris already had this ability prior to the start of the episode. It didn't seem like Iris actually grew or got any closer to her goals after the plotline resolved.

In the Clubsplosion, Georgia showed she got development as a character too. She hasn't lost her personality that we've come to know, but she roots for Iris silently not only that but she wants to see Iris improve and become a befitting Dragon Master not to mention in the Vanilluxe episode her and Iris left on good terms with each other. There was no hint of bitchyness, there was no snarkiness, there was just the sole "I guess I understand you in a way" scenario between the two.

Iris' rivalry with Georgia is a completely different story. Georgia was introduced as a trainer who just hated Dragon-type pokemon after she lost to a powerful Dragon-type trainer in the past. Georgia didn't care which trainer had a Dragon-type as long as she and her Pokemon managed to defeat them. Georgia was excited when her Bisharp defeated Grace's Druddigon in BW071. The only notable change that I saw in their relationship was when Georgia witnessed Iris's Axew learned Outrage and defeated Luke's Golett.

From that point on, Georgia started to respect Iris's strength as a "Dragon Master," even though Axew did not learn that move from training, and Iris's win over Luke back then was just a mere coincidence. Georgia mellowed out a little bit, but I doubt her personality change had anything to do with Iris growing or changing as a person.

Strictly a "your mileage may vary" situation, I've always thought of Emolga as being "lazy" not disobedient. She had no problem what-so-ever battling Bianca's Pignite and Minccino for a while and left once Minccino came out, she had no problem battling Emboar for a while but the promise of a Flamethrower was to worrying for her, she had no prob facing off against Sawk, even in the Durant episode she had no problem helping Ash train Swadloon, Ash even thanked her afterwards.

Most of those examples took place in episodes after the fourteenth movie(s) were released, which was after Emolga had already warmed up to Iris. Iris's Emolga was introduced as a lazy battler, true, but she still disobeyed her trainer and sought to fulfill its own desires first. Emolga only decided to befriend Axew and became Iris's pokemon because her trainer was going to provide her apples. Emolga was a manipulative and selfish pokemon who only looked after herself. It wasn't until Emolga was informed that Snivy, Oshawott, and the other pokemon got hurt because of a stunt that she pulled in the next episode that she decided to help them out. Even after that episode, Emolga continued to disobey Iris's commands and refused to battle on her behalf (i.e. BW036).

All of this behavior magically disappeared during the Club Battle tournament when Emolga was not only battling for Iris without any back-sass, but the pokemon had also displayed affection towards its trainer. These changes in Emolga's character were placed there because the writers felt it was convenient for them to do so. Emolga obeying her trainer in this context is not an indication that Iris had improved as a trainer or as a person.

Next up, the latest complaint regarding Iris. Her Axew not being a Fraxure, the writers are going somewhere with this. I'm not complaining about it, the writers even foreshadowed it twice in the Connoisseur Foongus episode with Iris being happy over Opelucid Gym being closed and fearing going to Opelucid City next. Sadly for her that detour isn't going to do her much good since Drayden is slated to appear in BW2 either way, away from the Opelucid Gym and explaining why it's closed.

This shows that Iris would rather avoid any problems and insecurities that she might have rather than deal with them personally. Iris seems to have so many expectations for herself that it appears to me that she is afraid of failure. Iris probably knew that Drayden is the mayor and Gym Leader of Opelucid City, and she may have been worried that she didn't grow to Drayden's expectations since they last met.

This was actually the one moment in the series that I had hoped the writers would actually put Iris through. I wanted Iris to go through some sort of struggle and to realize that she still has a long way to go before she can become a powerful Dragon trainer on Drayden's level. Unfortunately, the anime staff decided to focus on advertising the B2W2 games and had Drayden pushed back so that Ash could battle Homika for his last badge. Nevertheless, Drayden will be featured in the new opening so there is a good chance that Ash and co. will get to interact with him.

We also weren't expecting Iris's Axew to evolve into a Fraxure yet. Axew is clearly one of the main mascot pokemon in this series, and mascot pokemon very rarely evolve, if at all. It may be true that Iris' main objective in this series is to evolve her Axew. However, most of the evolutions in BW took place when the pokemon is seen struggling or needs additional power to overcome a situation. Since Iris keeps her Axew under wraps and does not use the pokemon very much, it shouldn't be a surprise that it has not evolved yet.

My main prob with these debates is there's never anything new added. Nothing I haven't already seen before.

Well, this thread was created so that users can discuss Iris's current progress in the BW anime. Unless the writers have Iris and her pokemon do more in the storyline, unfortunately her existing activities are all that we have to debate about. Everything else is just mere speculation.

For those who want ideas or suggestions to avoid this thread if they no longer want to participate, send a PM my way and I'll get back to you asap.

I so think the first thing to remember though is that if you don't want to see repetitive arguments, don't come to the thread and join in. My ideas and suggestions will help those who don't feel as if they can do so.

Originally Posted by RWB

Except, you know, not actually training him anymore, and him just randomly getting stronger without reason.

Pokemon doesn't need to be intensively trained to grow stronger though. If he is taken care of in good manner being well raised his strength will improve by itself, with Axew strength reflecting effort Iris put into that . If pokemon is in good shape and enters battles his experience increases too. Way through which wild pokemon grow stronger, and they aren't trained.

Outrage, pal, not Dragon Rage.

Im talking about dragon rage, not outrage from Don George tournament. Attack Axew learned prior to that trying it several times until he executed it well in episode Path to become dragon master with Emma and Druddigon.

She was still shown to a be a pretty abrasive but incompetent trainer during this time, which is wildly inconsistent with the super-powerful Iris of Ep 27+.

Like i said many things about Iris and story weren't even revealed yet until 27th episode, with people not knowing how strong and competent she really is.

Um, Iris showed no knowledge of strategy. Of types, yes, but almost everyone knows about them. You are making stuff up.

Didn't we saw her knowledge put to practice when battling Langley, Burgundy, Ash and several other competitors she met? Way she battled and tactic she displayed in Don George tournaments showed she is not from yesteray, knowing how to outsmart opponents.

A character that can't train a baby pokemon, a newly caught one, or even a veteran correctly shouldn't be passed of as skilled. Because let's face it - she's a trainer. Her primary role is to train pokemon, and she failed majorly at it.

I believe past contradicts that because Iris was showed to be quite good in training Drillbur , with lot of battling giving him enough experience to eventually evolve.

Iris isn't bad trainer, but with dragon types it was implied how they are type which is hardest to train and raise well requiring lot of patience and effort invested in their growth.
So its not so strange if she has less success with Axew, than its case with other types.

Not remotely comparable. Goku had several moments of character growth(and clear flaws that he gets called out on- prime example being the one with Gohan in the Cell games) and his improvement(as a fighter) was actually shown. Yes, he was always a happy-go-lucky guy at heart, but he did develop, unlike Iris.

I don't even like Goku, but he sure was a lot better written than Iris.

Goku stayed same more, than he changed. He was always incredibly naive thrusting people too much, being in reality big child. Yes there was some growth, but Iris had some growth as well.

Do i say Iris is well written, and how her story is handled adequately? Not really, but it doesn't change fact that she gained something from journey so far .

Originally Posted by Hellion

I actually like sarcastic characters who are occasionally annoyed at people... when it's picked up, when there's a legit back and forth, because that's when it's entertaining. In short, when it's well done. Here, it's not.

There is no right or wrong answer on what is interesting, and what isn't. That's matter of personal preference, and whether you think its well done or not is again only subject of opinion.

If interaction entertains you you will view it as well done, if it doesn't you wont. Each individual has different taste with this not being something which is factual.

Iris isn't hyperactive. That's more Jun or Bel.

Swinging on wines, acting wild, being invasive about pokemon hugging them makes her vivid. And on some occasions even hyperactive.

Not one of her main traits, but there were such cases.

Not always, no. But in some cases, yes. Iris is one of those cases because for 6 months, 26 episodes, that's what the writers sold. Iris was an inexperienced battler, who didn't know about strategy, who failed to get her Pokémon to learn a simple attack, who failed to get two of her Pokémon to listen to her, basically Iris was portrayed as a trainer who had a lot to overcome, who would struggle, work hard and overcome the things that were holding her back allowing her to get closer to her goal as a Dragon Master. Then, poof, magically in episode 27, Iris suddenly is a Dragon Master already who already knows everything and then we learn she's a child prodigy with magical powers and who's nearly unbeatable, with her problems just disappearing so she can get undeserved achievements.

There is lot of exaggeration going in here. First of all Iris isn't dragon master yet and it will probably take awhile before she becomes one, having a lot more to learn and improve in her skills before she reach Drayden or E4 level. And second of all she already lost fair share of battles, whether thats Langley, Stephan or someone else with merit going to her for Excadrill issue getting resolved.

Development is change. In order to be good development, something has to prompt the change in the character. Here, there's nothing. It's total character derailment and since Iris is treated like some child prodigy paragon of a trainer she has no reason to change. And without change, there is no development.

And Iris changed. Not much, but she did becoming more critic toward herself taking up responsibility behind her actions, growing stronger as trainer, becoming more open toward her friends and people in general cutting down on teasing and quick judgment.

I would have to see Iris do something about it to judge how unique and different it is.

Fact that her goal is not contests already makes it different, and i view it as unique because there is not one definite path through which this goal can be achieved being possible to take it in multiple directions. Premise behind it with girl coming from dragon village and being given special task by Elder with Axew, who by training and evolving will reflect someone growth is interesting and unseen before.

Growth is change. Iris walks into these episode already having all the answers and all the knowledge required to deal with the situation and therefore does not change. How is this preparing her to figure out if she's using the right approach to raising Dragons if she's doing nothing to raise Kibago and then gets away with it pulling a win in the Don Battle.

Except she played already role in Axew development. If it wasn't for her encouragement pushing him to continue repeating attack until it gets perfected, Axew wouldn't learn dragon rage. Repeating something until it gets well done being very patient is Iris method of training, being confirmed by Cilan how raising dragon require lot of patience and good care. Something which Iris succeeds in doing, with Axew being healthy and happy.

Not really, we saw her want to travel with Satoshi from the get go and her general attitude towards Dent has seldom changed.

And in start Iris was shy not having much thrust in Ash or anyone else taking some time before she became comfortable with them sharing her past and motivations. They helped her to become more opened toward humans and your mention of attitude change toward Dento means she changed a bit.

Except the only flaw she acknowledged in that episode is that she hadn't taught Doryuuzu a long range attack to give her more variety... except... how was she supposed to know that when she had 99 straight wins? She wasn't portrayed in that episode as angry or ungrateful or mean towards Doryuuzu making it seem very silly of him to hold a grudge against her because heaven forbid that Iris should ever have done something to actually deserve Doryuuzu's estrangement.

You interpretated episode wrong than, im afraid. In Excadrill episode she acknowledged how she shouldn't have pushed her pokemon so much, caring more about win than his feelings not being aware how her own pokemon feels. After Cilan enlightened her, she regretted for it being visibly sorry for everything which happened in that battle against Draysen apologizing to Excadrill because of that.

She became self critic accepting that she did mistake. Which is growth, no matter how rushed or poorly done some may find execution behind it.

but it won't change the fact that for two years, the characterization of Iris was just awful.

That's not fact, but your assessment with which i disagree.

You're contradicting yourself here, if she was right from the start and will be proven right, then she hasn't changed, hasn't grown, hasn't gained anything from the journey which just makes her presence on the journey pointless. I'm still trying to figure out why she's here. She brings nothing to the journey, gains nothing from it, actually prohibit some characters from developing and fails to entertain. She's an utter failure as a TV character.

Shes there to bring humor and good character interaction and contribute to group through advices, prepare of medicines and other small things. To balance out cast by having female into group and advertize new games. As well to bring something new from already repetitive contests receiving some development herself.

Iris went through some change, fulfilling role which writers had in mind with her. If its not enough for some people i can respect that and i expected more too, but her primordial existence in show is in writers eyes justified.And i share same sentiment.

Originally Posted by Gotpika

Charizard and Mamoswine, those two Pokemon stopped obeying because they lost respect for their trainers after evolution,

I think I need to put my foot on this one.

Mammoo's main conflict with Hikari wasn't she was a bad trainer(that was the first one, but not the one that continued on). It was the fact that he wanted to battle and KO other Pokémon, which was the opposite of the direction Hikari wanted to take. DP146's main plot revolves around that. And yes, this is kinda important, as preferring to make appeals rather than to battle is the main conflict Urara had with Hikari, and the main reason why she didn't respect her.

Whereas Doryuz's conflict with Iris is more close to Langley's conflict with Iris, as she refused to listen to both until it was too late, but managed to make things up eventually(for Doryuz, it was saying that she was sorry. For Langley, it was because she finally realised her words were true as battling Shaga becomes more closely an inevitability and started taking stuff around her more seriously.)

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

Like i said many things about Iris and story weren't even revealed yet until 27th episode, with people not knowing how strong and competent she really is.

Just because her story wasn't revealed doesn't mean that she had no portrayal and that how she acted in episodes didn't speak about the kind of trainer she was. There's nothing in the first 26 episodes that indicates Iris is a good trainer or that she has any aptitude in training them. She sounded and acted very inexperienced, didn't know how to resolve the issues with her Pokémon, didn't seem to care or think she did anything wrong or had anything to change about the way she was doing things. She kept putting other characters down without having anything to show for it for 6 months... For 6 months, she was portrayed as inexperienced and having no solutions to her problems, then we're supposed to believe she was right about everything all along, was justified in putting other people down, is fully knowledgeable about Dragons... There's no need for her to change or get better, because none of the flaws she was supposed to have at the beginning never ended up costing her anything, were never treated as problems.

Didn't we saw her knowledge put to practice when battling Langley, Burgundy, Ash and several other competitors she met?

She showed no strategy about any of these opponents. She just called out attacks, none of her opponents' strategies were ever allowed to really cost her. I don't see her using the battlefield, pulling combinations or really anything that justified her wins against better opponents.

Axew, who by training and evolving will reflect someone growth is interesting and unseen before.

Except, she's not training it, not working with it, not using it in battle, not doing anything with it rather than use it as a hair ornament. She's not learning anything new about Dragons, she's not changing her approach, she's not gaining new skills or knowledge. So Kibago gaining new attacks or even evolving in the future wouldn't be a testament of growth from Iris or development, it would be undeserved.

You interpretated episode wrong than, im afraid. In Excadrill episode she acknowledged how she shouldn't have pushed her pokemon so much, caring more about win than his feelings not being aware how her own pokemon feels. After Cilan enlightened her, she regretted for it being visibly sorry for everything which happened in that battle against Draysen apologizing to Excadrill because of that.

She never actually says that in the episode. What Dent tells her is that Doryuuzu was dissatisfied with the way Iris had been battling against Shaga because he knew they couldn't win since they didn't have a long range attack, which Iris had no way to know since they had 99 straight wins and no loss with their current moves, the episode gave her no clue that Doryuuzu couldn't battle and she never once was portrayed in that episode as being carefree with Doryuuzu's well-being in the battle.

I agree with you that might have been the intent, but it didn't register because at the same time, the writers tried their hardest to make Iris look as good as possible in that episode which didn't really prompt any change. Two minutes later, she's pushing Doryuuzu super hard and really only focusing on the battles, same as she was shown to do before, there's no change in how she acts around Doryuuzu from the way she acted before or after the loss to Shaga.

Originally Posted by Hellion

Just because her story wasn't revealed doesn't mean that she had no portrayal and that how she acted in episodes didn't speak about the kind of trainer she was. There's nothing in the first 26 episodes that indicates Iris is a good trainer or that she has any aptitude in training them. She sounded and acted very inexperienced, didn't know how to resolve the issues with her Pokémon, didn't seem to care or think she did anything wrong or had anything to change about the way she was doing things. She kept putting other characters down without having anything to show for it for 6 months... For 6 months, she was portrayed as inexperienced and having no solutions to her problems, then we're supposed to believe she was right about everything all along, was justified in putting other people down, is fully knowledgeable about Dragons... There's no need for her to change or get better, because none of the flaws she was supposed to have at the beginning never ended up costing her anything, were never treated as problems.

Didn't we saw Iris being knowledgeable about dragons in episode about Emma and Druddigon, knowing how to solve issue with it? Wasn't she portrayed as knowledgeable about preparing medicines and what herbs to use, more so than Ash and Cilan are? Didn't she showed knowledge about pokemon types and what pokemon are best to use in specific battles?
All of this happened before Excadrill episode.

Using Axew inexperience as indication what were Iris true skills as trainer is moot point because you can be competent battler and still have problems with certain pokemon. Emolga doesn't count, because being lazy and liking to do things her own way weren't treated as flaw, but part of her personality for comedy purposes.

Iris is good battler in general, but when it comes to dragon pokemon and given how hard is to raise them properly it was pretty much a given that she wont have same success with it like its case with others.

Also ever since Excadrill stopped listening to Iris, she didn't battled much since than so its needed to take in account how lack of activity and battles caused Iris skills to rusty with time making her seem inexperienced at first glance, when reality was something else. In every sport or activity if you neglect it for longer period not practicing, your skills will decrease and get rusty requiring to be constantly nurtured if you wish to maintain same level.

Same could be case with Iris taking some time after starting traveling to get back herself in form and regain her real strength.

As for Iris "problems" i believe writers never intended to treat those issues as character flaws,but rather as unfortunate incidents.

She showed no strategy about any of these opponents. She just called out attacks, none of her opponents' strategies were ever allowed to really cost her. I don't see her using the battlefield, pulling combinations or really anything that justified her wins against better opponents.

I don't know, i found Excadrill combination pf dog and drill run in battle against Burgundy was pretty good move from Iris side scoring win. Despite being at disadvantage battling water type, she was able to outsmart opponent and turn battle in her favor. Same goes for battle against Stephan Sawk with Iris on purpose using Emolga attract to buy time until static ability start taking effect paralyzing opponent, taking advantage of low defense knocking it out.

Except, she's not training it, not working with it, not using it in battle, not doing anything with it rather than use it as a hair ornament. She's not learning anything new about Dragons, she's not changing her approach, she's not gaining new skills or knowledge. So Kibago gaining new attacks or even evolving in the future wouldn't be a testament of growth from Iris or development, it would be undeserved.

She helped Axew to master dragon rage playing some role in it, as time passes on he is growing stronger because of Iris making sure to keep him in top shape being happy and healthy. That is Iris way of training it, deciding to be patient and letting things to go their own way. You may find it as ineffective and lazy approach, but if you spend long period of time with your pokemon giving him lot of attention and care, this will not only allow that trainer and pokemon eventually establish strong bond between themselves but it will also result in pokemon becoming with time stronger. And any lack of experience Axew has, is being fixed with each battle he is used in showing progress.

Training isn't only way to have pokemon grow. Breeders rarely battle, with their pokemon still being well raised because of good care, pokemon like Misty Togepi almost never battled but they evolved and became stronger through happiness and good care.

Same thing goes with Iris Axew, deciding to use different approach to achieve ultimate result.

As for dragons in general, she contrary to some belief does learn more. Whether it was Emma Druddigon, Deino or someone else because of them she was able to know dragons better than it was case before, collecting more knowledge on their characteristics and what is proper way to reach to their hearts and understand their feelings. Something which was stated in Deino episode, being acknowledged how thanks to establishing bond with it Iris came one step closer toward achievement of her dream learning to understand dragons even more.

She never actually says that in the episode. What Dent tells her is that Doryuuzu was dissatisfied with the way Iris had been battling against Shaga because he knew they couldn't win since they didn't have a long range attack, which Iris had no way to know since they had 99 straight wins and no loss with their current moves, the episode gave her no clue that Doryuuzu couldn't battle and she never once was portrayed in that episode as being carefree with Doryuuzu's well-being in the battle.

I agree with you that might have been the intent, but it didn't register because at the same time, the writers tried their hardest to make Iris look as good as possible in that episode which didn't really prompt any change. Two minutes later, she's pushing Doryuuzu super hard and really only focusing on the battles, same as she was shown to do before, there's no change in how she acts around Doryuuzu from the way she acted before or after the loss to Shaga.

She didn't needed to specifically say that, with face expression and portrayal how she feels speaking for itself. Like you said yourself whole Excadrill issue maybe did seemed rushed and poorly executed, but it doesn't change fact that Iris thanks to Cilan acknowledged what was real problem and why he ignored her for years. She understood how she should have know how her pokemon feels in that situation, being sorry because of caring only for win.

That's change, because she became selfcritic(something which wasn't case prior to that)taking up responsibility behind her actions. There was no need for Iris to act different toward Excadrill in rematch against Langley because her pokemon wasn't in losing position and in same situation like it was case with Haxorous. Way battle flowed with Iris and mole working as team filled with mutual understanding and confidence, showed they overcome their misunderstanding and differences together.

If character change, that doesn't need to be rubbed in viewers faces constantly reminding them of it.

I haven't been keeping up with BW in forever so I was wondering about Iris's secret (if she even has one). Near the beginning of BW, Ash asks for her goal in the future and she just smiles and runs off. Has that been revealed yet and if not, do you think it will still happen?

Originally Posted by OmigawdMatt

I haven't been keeping up with BW in forever so I was wondering about Iris's secret (if she even has one). Near the beginning of BW, Ash asks for her goal in the future and she just smiles and runs off. Has that been revealed yet and if not, do you think it will still happen?

It has been revealed. Now she's hiding another secret related to the 8th gym.

Not going to lie, when Iris is off the battle field and doing something productive or funny she is likeable. The issue with this is that it doesn't happen often enough. Iris has a unique design, funny facial expressions, and looks nice in costume change.

Her battling skills are not my favorite and neither is the lack of training for Axew. I will say that Iris does have enough substance to make me like her to a certain extent and not ready to wish her off the trio just yet. It's just the DEM Iris, the boring battling style Iris, the nag all the time Ash Iris, and the let's neglect Axew and Emolga for Excadrill Iris.

No matter if someone loved or hated Dawn, she did have a story. May may have had some cheap wins, but she is mostly realistic as a character. Misty may have lost some battles, but she never seemed like a prodigy early on.

The writers definitely should do more with Iris no doubt, still like the girl, but without a doubt yes they should.

Originally Posted by Cinderfella

Not going to lie, when Iris is off the battle field and doing something productive or funny she is likeable. The issue with this is that it doesn't happen often enough. Iris has a unique design, funny facial expressions, and looks nice in costume change.

Her battling skills are not my favorite and neither is the lack of training for Axew. I will say that Iris does have enough substance to make me like her to a certain extent and not ready to wish her off the trio just yet. It's just the DEM Iris, the boring battling style Iris, the nag all the time Ash Iris, and the let's neglect Axew and Emolga for Excadrill Iris.

No matter if someone loved or hated Dawn, she did have a story. May may have had some cheap wins, but she is mostly realistic as a character. Misty may have lost some battles, but she never seemed like a prodigy early on.

The writers definitely should do more with Iris no doubt, still like the girl, but without a doubt yes they should.

This, This so much.

Just as a reminder, if you quote someone's post to agree with them, please explain why you agree or add additional thoughts. Otherwise we've got a 'like' button for a reason :)

I think that Iris is in love with Ash. It's probably the reason why she's even travelling with Ash. Think about it guys, why would she nag Ash telling him that he's a kid? I think that she's only telling him that he's a kid to make him think that she doesn't have the hots for him. It's a normal thing for tweens to have their hormones effect their lives like this early on(I sure can relate!). I bet the reason she wanted to win the tournaments so badly was to get Ash's attention to make him praise her. She has been supporting him more as of late to make him really really like her. Now that Dawn is getting back on the show, Iris has competition to deal with. I think that that's why they're seen arguing in the previews of BW2. Heck, Ash must have the sole reason Dawn came back!

Why would Dawn even compete in a tournament that doesn't affect her goal at all in a far faraway region ?(of all places!) It must be because she wanted to be with Ash! She had unresolved sexual tension with him(as Lyra said in the episode where they got stuck in the Valley Windworks!) But things got problematic when she noticed that Iris has been with Ash for quite a while. That's why they're arguing! FOR ASH! Heck, in one scene shown in the previews, they blushed! It's why they're checking other Pokemon out to see how knowledgeable they are about them to impress Ash. I can't wait to see the sexual tension between them! The writers sure have Iris doing stuff as the title of this thread asks.

Originally Posted by Human

I think that Iris is in love with Ash. It's probably the reason why she's even travelling with Ash. Think about it guys, why would she nag Ash telling him that he's a kid? I think that she's only telling him that he's a kid to make him think that she doesn't have the hots for him. It's a normal thing for tweens to have their hormones effect their lives like this early on(I sure can relate!). I bet the reason she wanted to win the tournaments so badly was to get Ash's attention to make him praise her. She has been supporting him more as of late to make him really really like her. Now that Dawn is getting back on the show, Iris has competition to deal with. I think that that's why they're seen arguing in the previews of BW2. Heck, Ash must have the sole reason Dawn came back!

Why would Dawn even compete in a tournament that doesn't affect her goal at all in a far faraway region ?(of all places!) It must be because she wanted to be with Ash! She had unresolved sexual tension with him(as Lyra said in the episode where they got stuck in the Valley Windworks!) But things got problematic when she noticed that Iris has been with Ash for quite a while. That's why they're arguing! FOR ASH! Heck, in one scene shown in the previews, they blushed! It's why they're checking other Pokemon out to see how knowledgeable they are about them to impress Ash. I can't wait to see the sexual tension between them! The writers sure have Iris doing stuff as the title of this thread asks.

I don't think it's that simple. I think it's more of a Pikachu/Zekrom issue. That's the only reason I see her for being with him. She didn't exactly have a reasonable reason like most of the cast members to follow him around but I don't think it has anything to do with love.

However, as far as her character goes, she's amazing to most people. Since this is Pokemon and not some Harem anime, I like to also judge characters in being involved in battling and training. So far I feel that Axew just like Piplup was supposed to get better attention since the girl claims she wants to be a dragon master. since she only has one, I don't see what the problem is of her taking moe episodes to train the little guy. If I see one more "kidnapping Axew" episode again, I think I may faint.

I know this is a rather old topic, but on topic of Kibago not using Imperial Wrath now, I wanted to make this post for a while. It is going to be long. Obviously. :

The episode which Kibago learned was animated by Akihiro Tamagawa, THE best animator of series. His episodes as such have always some big change happening in them. This is of course not only to increase audience's interest, but also to have enough frames for stock animation.

Biggest examples would be:
-Satoshi's and Hikari's command animations. Appeared in Fukamaru's debut, these animation has been used in quite a lot of the later episodes, whenever Satoshi and Hikari made commands in their usual outfits. For example, in Denzi battle, when Satoshi commanded Dodaitose
-Pikachu's Electro Ball animation. Used every time he uses the move, ever.(Or almost every time, I haven't watched all of the episodes so I might be wrong).

Of course Tamagawa himself uses stock animation too, as he reused Kibago's Dragon's Wrath from Emmy's episode.

But unlike those, Kibago's Imperial Wrath, by the nature of it's move, cannot be reused in stock animation like others, as it is a close combat move, and has no CGI magic. They can't just change the background to match, or use a colored background to "hide" stock animation. They can do it to a few frames, but not all, as most of the move's, well, moves, is mostly based on the opponent. If they animated it in a similiar fashion to Kenshiro's Hyakuretsu-ken, that is, make Kibago punch Gobitto and later add Gobitto's reaction, they could reuse it anytime they wanted, but they didn't.

And since BW relies on stock animation and CGI more so than any other series(as most of the animators seem to be newcomers), this is kind of a problem.

Of course there are other problems too, such as animators not wanting to have Kibago an active role, as it means effort, like Iwane said. But of course this plays a bigger role.

But, why would they want the best animator to do such thing if it won't mean much down the line? This is a bigger question for me to answer. In most episodes Tamagawa does, some big change in the team happens, or there is a good battle/action/interaction. Let's count the amount of the times Kibago had a big battle after DBT. ... ... Against Zuruggu in Koharu episode. Yeah... Likely due to fact he wasn't going to use Imperial Wrath, they wanted his first battle with the move as good as it can be, as he wasn't going to use it any time soon. If they did, they would likely make the battle easy to have stock animation from. Again, like Kenshiro's move.

Another big issue is actually a classic shonen/seinen trope. As I said earlier, berserk moves are only activated as ultimate kill moves...OR they are waited until the last few episodes of the arc of the character so the character's biggest climax is waited until he/she gets many good moments without the move, and only being shown were few times, to foreshadow what is going to happen. We knew of Hikozaru's Blaze from Shinji's flashback for example, but we haven't seen it again until it fought against Ringuma after Mikuri Cup, and much later when he evolved into Goukazaru at the near end of DP.

Warning: Contains spoilers for Evangelion.

Similiarly, Evas' berserk modes were not shown a lot in the middle of the series, besides Unit 02's battle against Gaghiel, though Unit 01 did go berserk in the first episode and was shown in a flashback in second episode, it truly awakened in Episode 19 in the battle against Zeruel. Of course, Evangelion deconstructed this sort of deal in various fashions, both in the series and New Movie Edition.

Another thing to note is not all of the pawns are in their place:
-We know Langley had a bad incident with Imperial Wrath, but we don't know what, nor is it yet brought up back again.
-Waruvile is stated to be like an older brother to Kibago, but we haven't seen much of that. Obviously something is planned for those two.

Until these two big set pieces are set up, I don't think we will see Imperial Wrath much, only maybe few times here and there(stuff like Shirona's Gablias, ie battles he has no hopes of winning anyways, therefore won't be able to go crazy and ruin scenery because he would already be fainted).

This is of course assuming they will use the move as a plot point, but again, since there those two set pieces, I believe it will. The biggest questions are of course, "When?", "Against what?" and "How Iris will cope with such event?"

When? Since there is an upcoming Onondo toy in August and there was an another one in May, marketability won't be a big problem unlike what I expected, but still will be a large one. It still won't obviously happen in August, but since they are selling the stage's toys, it does mean selling the toys isn't a big deal. But ultimately, I don't expect it to be any sooner than last 20-30 episodes of BW.

Against what? Now this is a trickier question. Rocket-dan is certainly not out of question(especially considering how Goukazaru evolved and how he mastered Dragon Rage) but not highly likely. Langley is the second biggest possibility, especially considering Urara's track record(or Hikozaru's track record with Shinji). Likewise, if by some weird event Hikari does continue to be main, Urara herself is unfortunately a possibility. Shaga is not a possibility I expect to happen, nor is the matriach if she does have a Dragon. Shooty, especially if he gets his own Dragon, is the one I would like to happen, but not the one I expect. Waruvile will likely play a mentor role to Kibago regardless, but is not the one I expect it happen against, unless Satoshi manages to tame him when he evolves and learns Imperial Wrath, and Satoshi wants to help Iris with her own case, and they have a practice battle for that.

Other possibities:
-Iris will meet a total douchebag trainer who is hyped up heavily.
-Iris will get a secondary rival that will have this role.
-Koharu? Gochimu has an unfinished business with him after all. But as goofy as that would be, I don't expect it to happen.
-Cabernet. She wanted to have revenge against Iris, so I can see they following on that. Especially considering they love to put her in great pain even though it ends up harming her own already shaky credibility and ruining most the of the potential she had(like Kengo, though she fares much better thanks to her popularity, character dynamics with Dent and comedic potential) I wouldn't be surprised if they used her as a punching bag for Iris sometime down in the line.
-Kibago will go berserk against a group of wild Pokémon after getting lost another time. Considering this is how Pochama learned Hydro Pump, as the ultimate conclusion of the episodes he was lost and was attacked by a group of wild Pokémon, and considering writing Pokémon antagonists is easier than writing human antagonists, THIS is the plotline I expect to happen.
-Kibago will randomly go berserk in a practice battle against someone. The least likeliest option as I said before is probably this, but probably the lulziest.

"How Iris will cope with such event?" Cooldown hug? Regardless, she has to pit herself against Kibago/Onondo, as per the trope. Her glowy hands will likely be very helpful too.

Note 1: This is assuming she doesn't get Kairyu to be her Togekiss of course, but considering the thing has no upcoming toys despite being the most marketable Dragon ever(it's Barney the Dinosaur mixed with an axolotl. If that doesn't sell with little kids, nothing will), I don't expect it happen.

Note 2: I do expect Kibago to have an actual active role beforehand during Season 2, before this event, especially considering Shirona battle and Shaga, but still, it is in Kibago's evolution her chance of gaining Langley's respect, reaching to matriach's hopes and getting Shaga's respect lies. Even if she managed to get another Dragon, high or low level, Kibago's status will end up juxtaposing with it.

Note 3:Of course these are just some words before Shirona vs. Iris, how the battle will play out(whether Kibago will use Imperial Wrath or not and what Shirona will comment) will likely change a few things, but I still abide by my rant and speculations until we learn more.