Thread: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Ash himself can be wrapped up too.

Ash can also kill Cilan and declare his love for Iris, that doesn't mean the writers have any plans to do that...

There's no reason to assume Ash cannot be replaced. This fandom always has a habit of thinking characters would never leave until it actually happens.

About 90% of the things that happened in the anime after Johto, fans would have never believed would happen until they actually occurred. The writers have been doing things differently with each passing gen and there have been many surprises along the way.

When we were back in 2001, could you ever imagine all the changes that would happen to the series in the years to come? Of course not, since at the time we had no idea the show would change at all. It could have went on the exact same way it was in Johto forever. Instead the writers revamped the series and have continued to do so.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

There's no reason to assume Ash cannot be replaced. This fandom always has a habit of thinking characters would never leave until it actually happens.

He is Pikachu's trainer. Pikachu is the face of the franchise. He's not going anywhere.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Because it makes more sense to have a new generation feature the heroes of those gen.

Like others already said Ash is already fulfilling that role by being redesigned with each new generation.
Also since when did it matter that cast gets cleaned up with new set of characters to promote new gen.of games?

Going by examples of characters who stopped existing in games still being kept like Brock ,Team Rocket etc with several female and male protagonists being ignored in favor of their stay shows how its possible to advertize successfully new games with older characters through new pokemon as well with writers not being obligated to introduce new characters necessarily to main cast.

Originally Posted by Adamant

His battles with the Elite Four members were to demonstrate that he wasn't anywhere near their level. Him winning against everyone in the league save super-trainer Takuto, and doing better against Takuto than anyone else, was to demonstrate that he is league champion material, but they didn't want him winning the league despite that, so they tossed in some abnormally strong participant so he'd lose despite his ability.

I understand that,but point was that defeats vs E4 members and Ash lack of skill and knowledge compared to elite trainers and champions had for a purpose to point out how Ash is still far away from achieving his goal of becoming pokemon master not having enough experience yet.Even if he won league with current capacity he couldnt go much forward being only step forward in his career.
Granted writers could have done having Ash won league having him go to next region to win other leagues(pokemon master afterall means becoming best trainer in world,not of one region) or doing some challenging quest like BF was to learn more but i guess they thought its not time for such thing yet.

EDIT:To Gliscor'd:To answer your question why we think Ash cant be replaced like others before him were.

Reason is because they are expendable while someone who is driving force of this show and its mascot isnt.Fact that writers didnt replaced Ash for almost 15 years and still counting should tell us how they dont plan to replace him intending to wrap up pokemon series when tim comes with same character who started them.

Also you havent answered.If new kids which matter dont have problems with Ash character why should writers cater to minority and have Ash replaced risking to lose their source of money,that ratings sink blewing up everything?

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

There's no reason to assume Ash cannot be replaced.

He can
He won't
The former doesn't contradict the latter, you know...

the writers revamped the series and have continued to do so.

Yet with all "revamps" and all these 14+ years, with all changes and refreshing, they never once dared to think remove Ash and Pikachu from the show
The things you refer to that were changed weren't 14 years old things, and not even half of that, nor were they globally iconic and well known characters strongly associated with the show... so no, you can't compare Ash to these things

Also, I laugh at how you avoid answering my question about why you still watch it despite all your complaints and wishes for it to end... I guess that's because I'm right and that, for some crazy reason, you think you "have" to watch it as long as Ash is there, which is pretty ridiculous...

Asking why users keep watching the show, or telling to stop watching has no relevancy to the topic what so ever. Please stop it now.

In a sense, this thread is completely rhetorical. Even though people have justifyable opinions on why Ash should or should not receive the boot, it won't happen. Speculation is the biggest part of disappointment. While all of us can wish something to be true all we like, a key piece of the Pokemon franchise cannot be just eliminated. There needs to be a reality check. While very important main characters have been cast off, Pokemon style, the main character would never receive such treatment.
But the point important aspect of this all is indeed Pikachu.
What happens to him? Is he given away? No, theres no logical explanation for it. Pikachu is Pokemon. Pokemon is Money. Excuse my fallaciousness, but Pikachu=$$$.
Being a New Yorker I can think of a perfect example. What happens to the Pikachu Thanksgiving float?
^That is one important factor serving as a representation for merchandise, etc issues.

And would Pokemon really be Pokemon without Ash? If there was a replacement (which there will not be) it would have to fit the same exact character type, and then complaints over "Ash Knockoff!" would emerge. Anime wise, its a stupid move that would be unthinkable. Franchise wise, its a disasterous move that is irreversable and furthermore a death wish.

So in conclusion, when thinking about this- "Just no" is a sufficient answer capable of quelling arguments.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Japanese ratings would not drop because Ash isn't there. Kids will watch Pokemon regardless who the main characters are.

Is this some kind of joke? A 7 year old kid won't watch Pokemon because there's no Ash? When said 7 year old kid probably has only been watching pokemon for 1 year?

Do you study Japanese ratings? Because YES since JNP ratings measure Adults and Children they would drop. It'd be the exact same thing as before, Pikachu, Trainer with Satoshi attitude, gyms, badges, looses. Rinse and Repeat for each year to come. What would be the point in going to the trouble of replacing him, if he's supposedly new to them? No point at all. The show gets top 10 in ratings every week, why take the risk? Please give me a good reason? Not because he's "boring" or you want "closure" because those don't matter, money matters.


HERE YOU GO http://pokebeach.com/2008/07/second-pokemon-interview-with-masamitsu-hidaka-many-interesting-points

Will Ash and Pikachu ever be replaced? No. Will they ever age? No. Will there be a 5th generation of Pokemon and will the show keep continuing? He laughed even harder and said of course. Pokemon will continue for many generations to come, and as he made it sound, probably forever.

Wow. Well played, from a former director themselves, can't get much better than that, unless you have connections with current staff, but this is convincing enough for me. You win forever, or rather WPM does.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCool708

And would Pokemon really be Pokemon without Ash? If there was a replacement (which there will not be) it would have to fit the same exact character type, and then complaints over "Ash Knockoff!" would emerge. Anime wise, its a stupid move that would be unthinkable. Franchise wise, its a disasterous move that is irreversable and furthermore a death wish.

So in conclusion, when thinking about this- "Just no" is a sufficient answer capable of quelling arguments.

It would be Pokemon cause pokemon is about the SETTING! AND why does the character have to be like Ash? it does not the most important thing is the setting. NOT the characters. NOT the redundant structure. NOT the animation design. NOT the dialogue. NOT even the fact that it is a kids' show. The setting makes pokemon, pokemon. and "just no" does answer whether it's gonna happen(freakin' link :( ) but it does NOT make me desire it less. Therefore it does not "quell" the argument!

YES! YES! YES!

I want Ash gone. I loved him up till DP. But the way BW is handling him is dumb! God. It really makes one feel like they wasted their time caring about the character. The writers really don't care. Up until DP the show had some sense of reality (empashis on SOME). The growth he went through as a trainer till then was what I'd call realistic. You become great over time. But dumbing him down and throwing all that away, to me atleast, is disrespectful not only to the viewers, but to the character.

They could've simply rebooted it with another continuity starting Ash. But not spit at what's already established.

Either rebooted with a new Ash continuity, or having Hilbert as the protagonist, which would've worked too.

10 year old from Pallet Town...screw you writers..

Originally Posted by Alphaphlare

It would be Pokemon cause pokemon is about the SETTING! AND why does the character have to be like Ash? it does not the most important thing is the setting. NOT the characters. NOT the redundant structure. NOT the animation design. NOT the dialogue. NOT even the fact that it is a kids' show. The setting makes pokemon, pokemon. and "just no" does answer whether it's gonna happen(freakin' link :( ) but it does NOT make me desire it less. Therefore it does not "quell" the argument!

While many, including myself, enjoy the vastness and mystique of a new region (if that's what you mean by setting) in any Pokemon media, your comment is narrow minded.
In your response, you also neglected to mention Pikachu. Alpha, it isn't all about the show- its about money and the franchise itself.
The anime wouldn't recover without Ash and the things that come with him.

The anime is geared toward younger children. Do you actually think the writers care more about the older, seasoned viewers than their primary audience, little children?
The MC must be a highly optimistic young kid who relies on friendship and personal power to win. Thats Pokemons signiture cliche. Animation design and dialougue really don't matter either. What matters is cash and popularity, not the wishful thinking of a percentage of the enormous worldwide Pokemon community.

What I meant by "Just No" was that by no means or circumstances will Ash ever be removed from the show. To use an analogy, (even though Pokemon has become an American cartoon) it's almost as if Spongebob was taken out of his own cartoon.

Please, Spongebob fans, of which I am included, do not critique me for my weakly presented analogy. It is only being used as an example of how absurd this whole thing is.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCool708

While many, including myself, enjoy the vastness and mystique of a new region (if that's what you mean by setting) in any Pokemon media, your comment is narrow minded.
In your response, you also neglected to mention Pikachu. Alpha, it isn't all about the show- its about money and the franchise itself.
The anime wouldn't recover without Ash and the things that come with him.

The anime is geared toward younger children. Do you actually think the writers care more about the older, seasoned viewers than their primary audience, little children?
The MC must be a highly optimistic young kid who relies on friendship and personal power to win. Thats Pokemons signiture cliche. Animation design and dialougue really don't matter either. What matters is cash and popularity, not the wishful thinking of a percentage of the enormous worldwide Pokemon community.

What I meant by "Just No" was that by no means or circumstances will Ash ever be removed from the show. To use an analogy, (even though Pokemon has become an American cartoon) it's almost as if Spongebob was taken out of his own cartoon.

Please, Spongebob fans, of which I am included, do not critique me for my weakly presented analogy. It is only being used as an example of how absurd this whole thing is.

I know what you meant by Just no my post did not in any way conflict with your explanation. I knew writers don't care about older audiences. All what I was saying what makes pokemon pokemon is the pokemon world.

By setting I meant a world in which pokemon and the league exist.

The signAture cliche is that of anime not the franchise. How was I focusing on the anime over the rest franchise?

So understand what I say before calling me narrow minded! I find your post arrogant and ignorant. How do you feel?

It is Okay mods I can work this out.

Spongebob never established any real sense of reality ot continuity. Which the Pokemon Anime has. The whole problem with Ash is that there are alternatives to concluding his story without jumping the shark. The route the Pokemon anime is taking is just absurd, atleast with his character, and it'll eventually bite them in the ass. One day kids will get tired of this stretched for far to long "story". It's better to take the positive alternative to ensure a better outcome.

But whatever, the writers may have something planned for the end of BW that may not be so absurd.

Originally Posted by Kameinu

Spongebob never established any real sense of reality ot continuity. Which the Pokemon Anime has. The whole problem with Ash is that there are alternatives to concluding his story without jumping the shark. The route the Pokemon anime is taking is just absurd, atleast with his character, and it'll eventually bite them in the ass. One day kids will get tired of this stretched for far to long "story". It's better to take the positive alternative to ensure a better outcome.

But whatever, the writers may have something planned for the end of BW that may not be so absurd.

I asked not for critique. And I apologize, Alphaphare.
In this situationm the best agreement is to disagree.

Even though I still have no doubt Ash cannot leave the show. I think what you meant was the Pokemon idea itself- which is truly essential to the show yes, but also works hand in hand with Pikachu and the specific character of Ash.

Honestly, the whole reverse to stage one is quite annoying, but it can't be helped. I think gotpika managed to nab the reasoning on that one. Still, I cannot see any forseeable explanation to Ash being removed. If only this thread had a poll!