Thread: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

Watching Ash has gotten progressively boring for me...It's like, in BW they tried to do things to refresh his character...
Give him multiple rivals, but they weren't interesting to me.
Gave him all the starter pokemon AGAIN.
He rotated his pokemon, although that didn't seem to do much as the attention seemed to be on the starters more.

I wish the writers would do something more interesting with his character. Introduce his father to the storyline or something. Give Ash some kind of reputation to live up to so he can accomplish his goals.

I would have liked him gone when DP ended. Best Wishes proves there's no place to go with Ash but backwards.

Hopefully if TR leaves that means Ash can't be too far behind.

^@above

*opens mouth*

Ash is not going to leave.

Originally Posted by DracoMan

Personally, I think part of why TPTB keep Ash regressing to beginner level is for the new, young Pokefans to have someone to identify with, even though it pisses off some of the veterans like Yours Truly. That's why I think my idea is the best one: let Ash grow to champion level (or close to it) and introduce a rookie trainer as his protege. Becoming a big brother to a rookie (as opposed to needing a big brother, like Brock or Cilan) will do wonders for Ash's development as a trainer and a person, plus the younglings watching the show will see the rookie as someone who's on their level.

While I agree with you, they already kinda did this in AG where he was like a mentor/big brother to May. He seemed a lot more calm and matured in AG compared to his Unovan self.

Originally Posted by El_

Originally Posted by DracoMan

Personally, I think part of why TPTB keep Ash regressing to beginner level is for the new, young Pokefans to have someone to identify with, even though it pisses off some of the veterans like Yours Truly. That's why I think my idea is the best one: let Ash grow to champion level (or close to it) and introduce a rookie trainer as his protege. Becoming a big brother to a rookie (as opposed to needing a big brother, like Brock or Cilan) will do wonders for Ash's development as a trainer and a person, plus the younglings watching the show will see the rookie as someone who's on their level.

While I agree with you, they already kinda did this in AG where he was like a mentor/big brother to May. He seemed a lot more calm and matured in AG compared to his Unovan self.

Yeah, except they brought Brock back, which I think hindered Ash's development. Ash should be the big brother and not have one. That's the only way he'll truly grow.

i think he should not be replaced because i feel he is not quite at the level to be replaced
example : i think if he wins a league he could/would be replaced

Originally Posted by bestyxD

i think he should not be replaced because i feel he is not quite at the level to be replaced
example : i think if he wins a league he could/would be replaced

Well given that he almost beat Tyson a loooooooooooong time ago he should have won by now. A the very reason why I want him to be replaced is that he does win the league because now he is doing worse than he should be doing.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

I would have liked him gone when DP ended. Best Wishes proves there's no place to go with Ash but backwards.

He could have also just...stayed the same. That certainly would have made him more tolerable this series, and I don't think we should use that as any indication as for why he absolutely *must* leave when BW has screwed things over, in general.

To be honest, them changing with a new protagonist now wouldn't hurt any new kids that come on to the show since they wouldn't know or probably care who ash was..

If it meant we got an epic send off for Ash, Im all for it. I want a League Championship, an Elite Four showdown, a huge reunion with MMD, a Giovanni vs. Ash battle to save the world, a Ho-Oh explanation, etc.!

For all of you who said if ain't broke don't fix it I'd like to point out that "appeal to tradition" is a logical fallacy and if it's polarizing then it ain't perfect. 24 came to an end. Star Trek the original series came to end. And telenovelas are way more popular the american soaps. I like Ash that's why I want him to leave with some dignity.

I see people saying how Ash should leave, while he has some "dignity left" but question is would his leaving right now at end of BW left any long lasting impact making for memorable departure?

With way Unova series has been screwing up plots i don't think so and i never really understood mentality how "someone new=necessarily better". That's fairly relative since replaced version could likely end up worse than Ash is and claims in support of Ash leaving because people are tired of regress are in least hand contradictory.

Because if we got new protagonist that would be 360% going back, being form of regression too. Which means having new character learn basic things like Ash did all over again, traveling for years without winning league and going all over again with establishing relationships with other characters, creating continuity and forming past.

Getting new character wont change anything with new guy still failing at league, starting fresh at start of new region etc. So i fail to see point in replacing Ash, because root of problem behind anime not having strong continuity and more notable progress doesn't lie in having same protagonist but in writers and hesitance to apply different approach toward this show.

Quite frankly i can say i still enjoy Ash character. He can sometimes annoy me, his lack of progression can be frustrating but as person he manage to be entertaining providing good dynamic into cast and i like concept of following established protagonist which gradually grows, experience various challenges, form new friendships and explore world.

I think many of us forgot in here why we liked this show in first place and we shouldn't rush with decisions like "ducks in mist" because when something happens there is no going back no matter how much we would like.

One of main reasons why im not supportive of idea for Ash being replaced is because i can see he has lot of potential as character to go through more meaningful, complex growth with writers traditional approach being only thing holding them back to take him in completely undiscovered territory.

Why get new character with similar story who goes through basic formulaic way of growth, when we could get sequel to current protagonist story making him advance on higher levels as trainer, experience new challenges and problems which come on its way adding novelty to character?

Winning league isn't only thing left to do with Ash and im surprised there prevails such narrow minded perceive of what you can do when developing someone. When Tyson won world championship in Beyblade did this stopped writers from developing him forward? Or when Goku won world tournaments?

No, they introduced harder challenges and bigger obstacles which allowed character to grow forward.

We could get more insight in Ash background with things from past playing role in his future progress, he could go on bigger challenges after winning league and challenging E4 revealing more on what its required to become master, he could develop new battling style acknowledging current flows learning how to use pokemon to full potential like champions do etc. There could be included new challenges which illustrate character growth becoming complex/stronger trainer.

With new character you can't do sequel because they aren't developed to such point to grow deeper, you can't do build up on relationship and personality traits because they haven't even been established yet, you can't have filled with continuity and throwbacks to past adventures story because there doesn't exist any history, material to work upon behind them.

And Ash has all of that with there existing background and developed story to pick upon fulfilling criteria of taking him forward.

Only thing we can expect from new character is basically going from start all over again using repetitive, overused formula of basic growth through which someone who starts out go through.

You could argue how new face could interest you again, just to grow tired of him after few years? And than what? Start replacing protagonists endlessly?

That way people can forget about continuity based anime and gradual development of someone with only long lasting characters having predisposition to take them in new, unknown to us directions without making it contrived and poorly planned.
Making Ash laving pointless because by adding new angle to his story and development putting more effort into him, they could make him refreshed reinventing interest from those who gave up on character.

Because i care for Ash im in favor of his stay because it would be mistake to let all that potential for further growth end up wasted, depriving him of chance to receive proper conclusion and justice as character.

Granted same can be said for traveling companions who left, but difference is that Ash is most important character/ driving force whose story keep this show going so its natural to expect seeing him reach climax on his journey. And after being part of anime for 15 years he earned his place under the sun being only logical and fair to keep main protagonist until very end.

After all "if apple is still green, you want to leave it on tree until it matures enough to be ready for consumption."

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

After all "if apple is still green, you want to leave it on tree until it matures enough to be ready for consumption."

But for how long are you going to let that green apple on the tree?

Ash's character is bloated. Bloated characters need to leave the show to let unbloated characters in.

Originally Posted by Human

But for how long are you going to let that green apple on the tree?

Ash's character is bloated. Bloated characters need to leave the show to let unbloated characters in.

That's the thing though.
People often resort to logical fallacy of there existing such thing as "character having date of expire", but there is no limit in how much you can develop character being writers call if they want to go deeper. In narrative such word doesn't exist.
It only depends on producers willingness to do more.

If people find Ash character boring, it doesn't mean it can't become interesting to you in future. It all depends in what direction writers take him and with what new, fresh ideas they come up for him.

I don't see any point in drawing in new protagonist after 15 years doing same gym quest, having similar personality, using Pikachu as mascot and going through same basic growth we already saw countless times with Ash and other companions.

Im more for investing in Ash story taking him forward after winning league exceeding skills beyond simple trainer which would be infinitely more appealing. There are plenty of things they could do with him after winning league with master goal still being relatively unexplored , and since Ash story is already established having background allows to do build up on it.

Something you cannot really achieve when you do clean slate.

Not to mention if your going to keep someone for so long, he deserves to stay until anime ends as whole.

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

Originally Posted by Human

But for how long are you going to let that green apple on the tree?

Ash's character is bloated. Bloated characters need to leave the show to let unbloated characters in.

That's the thing though.
People often resort to logical fallacy of there existing such thing as "character having date of expire", but there is no limit in how much you can develop character being writers call if they want to go deeper. In narrative such word doesn't exist.
It only depends on producers willingness to do more.

It exists. There isn't an expiration date in this case, but there is a limit to how much stuff you can cram into a single character. The more you cram, the more that character is bound to fall and turn out to be terribly written.

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

If people find Ash character boring, it doesn't mean it can't become interesting to you in future. It all depends in what direction writers take him and with what new, fresh ideas they come up for him.

Ideas for what to do with one character aren't unlimited you know. It would be harder to make any idea that is any good if they're filled up with them. Ash's antics don't bore me, but the thing is, Ash is fat with ideas.

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

I don't see any point in drawing in new protagonist after 15 years doing same gym quest, having similar personality, using Pikachu as mascot and going through same basic growth we already saw countless times with Ash and other companions.

15 years

You can't enjoy the same EXACT THING for 15 years. I'd rather have a new protagonist. At least they won't be fat and have lots of new potential that could take the show in a different direction.

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

Im more for investing in Ash story taking him forward after winning league exceeding skills beyond simple trainer which would be infinitely more appealing. There are plenty of things they could do with him after winning league with master goal still being relatively unexplored , and since Ash story is already established having background allows to do build up on it.

Master goal = Win a Pokemon League

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

Something you cannot really achieve when you do clean slate.

They can achieve it and then make a clean state. Nobody here is saying they should make a clean slate before allowing Ash to win a league.

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

Not to mention if your going to keep someone for so long, he deserves to stay until anime ends as whole.

Yup. I totally agree.

Then they can make a new anime with a new protagonist :D