Thread: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

Ya know what? I changed my mind. Ignore the posts I made before. Ash is cute. He's still stupid and kiddy and he's been in the show for way too long that he's getting 'old', but I'll say that he's cute and there's no real need to get rid of him now. Of course I would love a change in main characters, but Ash isn't all that an 'eyesore' as much as I thought.

I am a huge Ash fan as well which is WHY I think he should be replaced. He should be fighting elite four members and such. I want him to have climax and conclusion. Having Ash continue literally forever would be horrible because he'll be learning the same lessons over and over and there is no meaning. He proven he is strong enough, there has been so much foreshadowing, one climax is worth an eternity of seasons. Especially if they are more season to come anyways. I don't want Ash to become champion so he can be replaced, I want him to be replaced so he could become champion.

Originally Posted by Destiny Queen

Ya know what? I changed my mind. Ignore the posts I made before. Ash is cute. He's still stupid and kiddy and he's been in the show for way too long that he's getting 'old', but I'll say that he's cute and there's no real need to get rid of him now. Of course I would love a change in main characters, but Ash isn't all that an 'eyesore' as much as I thought.

Okay? I think I agree with you. I wouldn't want them brining in a new kid who would just end up being replaced again and again. I know some people love the other characters who interact with him on the show and I know that there are some who likes Pikachu too. I wouldn't want to see another Pikachu that's for sure.

Ash must stay. Sure, I would have liked it if they used a new character for each region (like how it is in the games... and if they did that they could have kept the original timeline rather than have Hoenn take place after Johto)... but if they were going to do that they should have done it back at Johto. Changing now would just be strange and pointless. And I know that I wouldn't like it at all, even if they replaced Ash with a much cooler / better trainer. To compare it to another show -- Yu-Gi-Oh!... I hate all the new Yu-Gi-Oh! serieses that don't include Yugi in them. That's not the only reason why I don't like it (I stopped liking Yu-Gi-Oh! when Yugi still was a character) but that definitely makes me not want to give it a second chance.

Originally Posted by dannyjenn

Ash must stay. Sure, I would have liked it if they used a new character for each region (like how it is in the games... and if they did that they could have kept the original timeline rather than have Hoenn take place after Johto)... but if they were going to do that they should have done it back at Johto. Changing now would just be strange and pointless. And I know that I wouldn't like it at all, even if they replaced Ash with a much cooler / better trainer. To compare it to another show -- Yu-Gi-Oh!... I hate all the new Yu-Gi-Oh! serieses that don't include Yugi in them. That's not the only reason why I don't like it (I stopped liking Yu-Gi-Oh! when Yugi still was a character) but that definitely makes me not want to give it a second chance.

That makes no sense at all. Seeing Ash stay for another 10-20 years just makes his character even more pointless and will mean the show will never have any type of ending. Most of Ash's friends are gone now so there's no point keeping one character around if they change everyone else.

Speaking of wanting character leave because of liking him,strangely enough because i care about Ash character i dont want him replaced. He deserves better than leaving cast without being used to full potential not getting proper closure. Like other traveling companions like Misty,May,Max etc which left before their time was up.
So this are my final thoughts why Ash shouldnt leave.

Ash as character is still fun and entertaining to me. Yes BW dumb him down a bit but he still posses that childish charm,naivety and personality traits which make him actually enjoyable to watch contributing to good character interaction. He also advance forward as trainer even in Unova containing DP maturity he used to have, with complete regression being myth.I dont see any point in getting rid of Ash right now, because his story simply isnt developed enough to allow for plausible conclusion clearly having room left to be done more. Winning one league isnt maximum writers could do with character and such a vague goal like pokemon master is.

Instead of getting rid of him starting out with another rookie learning from start, i would rather want to follow further progression of already established and experienced trainer like Ash is being taken to new and unknown directions. Who says his journey would have to stop after winning pokemon league and battling E4? That wont make him master, nor best trainer in world with there existing other regions and leagues to explore, rivals to beat, new pokemon to catch, enter various side quests with harder and bigger challenges like BF or Orange Island championship were to learn and prove himself as trainer.

We could also learn more about Ash past, family(like his parent), do more with ton of older pokemon which are rooting at Oaks lab etc. Possibilities are endless, and Ash can definitely grow forward as trainer having several flaws which need to be perfect, along with creating new obstacles. So why have discard everything to get cheap clone going from scratch? That wouldnt be something fresh,but rather disasterous throwing away all that potential which exists within current protagonist.

Whats few more years of following his journey, as long outcome is entertaining?I would rather enjoy in ride while it lasts.

Needless to say i know i already sound like broken record, but Ash is extremely popular being iconic to pokemon franchise already attracting new fans toward anime having big marketing value. Financially there simply doesnt exist reason to get rid of someone which is already doing well bringing profit, and risk everything.

There is also problem with Pikachu not being possible to replace franchise main mascot with yellow rodent and Ash being too much integrated within anime with people associating pokemon with those two. Getting rid of him involves risk of completely revamped anime failing within audience along with Ash departure creating backlash and drop of ratings.

Current formula isnt broken, there isnt anything wrong with Ash and it seems to me people who want him gone are rather growing out of anime becoming bored with it than anything else. Meaning they would get bored with his clone and new show too with problem not being in main protagonist but basic principle kid tv show like pokemon follow.

Mmmm...
yes and no. Staying completely rhetorical, if the anime stays the way it is (which is will), then yeah, I think Ash should continue to be the main character, as tiring as he may sometimes be, and despite the fact I really don't like him. I don't really watch the anime much to be honest, but it would feel so different without him.

What I would like is if they would replace the actual anime they have now with something different, in effect replacing Ash. It wouldn't have to be now, and maybe it could be in addition to this one, but I think an anime focusing on the player characters or even on the Pokespe would be fantastic. And how about Pokemon Colosseum?
But I digress. That's a different topic altogether..

When it comes to the Pokemon anime we have now, though, regarding traveling to every region and (failing) at catching em all and becoming a pokemon master, I think Ash should stay.

Originally Posted by dannyjenn

Ash must stay. Sure, I would have liked it if they used a new character for each region (like how it is in the games... and if they did that they could have kept the original timeline rather than have Hoenn take place after Johto)... but if they were going to do that they should have done it back at Johto. Changing now would just be strange and pointless. And I know that I wouldn't like it at all, even if they replaced Ash with a much cooler / better trainer. To compare it to another show -- Yu-Gi-Oh!... I hate all the new Yu-Gi-Oh! serieses that don't include Yugi in them. That's not the only reason why I don't like it (I stopped liking Yu-Gi-Oh! when Yugi still was a character) but that definitely makes me not want to give it a second chance.

FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE CHANCE TO REPLACE HIM IN JOHTO. Story line wise there would be no sense of closure. He wasn't strong enough to win a league conference back then so they couldn't replace him. The end of DP was their very FIRST chance. And I have a theory why they didn't. They are no pikachu in Unova In any other region they could just give the new protagonist a pikachu but since they were no Pikachu they were forced to keep Ash.

@pokemon fan 132

A few more years IS a big deal cause the longer the keep him the more reluctant to get rid of him and the less likely they are to do all the things you want him to do which right now the writers seem to have NO interest in having Ash doing. Having the producers say OK we are going to get rid of him in 5 years is going to get Ash a lot more development than he would in ten if they decide not to replace him for a long time.

@Alphaphlare I advise you to take a break from this thread if you are going to resort to caps and say things like "For the last fucking time". There's absolutely no need to post like that on the forums and so I am asking you to not do that again.

Originally Posted by dannyjenn

Ash must stay. Sure, I would have liked it if they used a new character for each region (like how it is in the games... and if they did that they could have kept the original timeline rather than have Hoenn take place after Johto)... but if they were going to do that they should have done it back at Johto. Changing now would just be strange and pointless. And I know that I wouldn't like it at all, even if they replaced Ash with a much cooler / better trainer. To compare it to another show -- Yu-Gi-Oh!... I hate all the new Yu-Gi-Oh! serieses that don't include Yugi in them. That's not the only reason why I don't like it (I stopped liking Yu-Gi-Oh! when Yugi still was a character) but that definitely makes me not want to give it a second chance.

I don't think that they had a chance to replace Ash in Johto. Since that was still part of the original Pocket Monsters series, I don't think that they would have wanted to replace him in the middle of a series anyway. AG was the first chance that they had to replace Ash, but they didn't. I also still don't like the comparisons to Yu-Gi-Oh! in his situation. It doesn't really work for a number of reasons. Yugi was replaced because his story was concluded at the end of the Ceremonial Duel. I don't think he could have worked as a main character for another whole series at that point. Unlike Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh! didn't start out to be a toyetic series until GX started and was based around a manga of the same name. I've seen the spin-off series I don't think changing the main characters with each new series is a problem. I don't think it would work for Pokemon at this point, especially when they tend to change their cast every few years, but it doesn't really work as a comparison for me.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

]That makes no sense at all. Seeing Ash stay for another 10-20 years just makes his character even more pointless and will mean the show will never have any type of ending. Most of Ash's friends are gone now so there's no point keeping one character around if they change everyone else.

Ash has already been the main character for nearly fifteen years. I don't see how another ten to twenty years makes his character even more pointless. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if he was still around that far ahead into the future when I never expected to see him in new episodes while taking college courses. At this point, I think expecting any type of ending other than maybe Ash and Pikachu running off to an unnamed region to capture more Pokemon is expecting too much. Just because other characters have left doesn't mean that there's no point to keeping Ash around, especially when he's the main star of the show and his friends are supporting cast members by comparison. The story has always been about Ash and Pikachu meeting new friends, capturing new Pokemon and battling other trainers. I don't see how his friends leaving means that there's no point to his character when they were never necessary components to his story to begin with.

I must say, I disagree about them not being able to get rid of Ash in Johto. The Kanto season had an ending. Ash competed in the Indigo League. He didn't win, but that doesn't mean that there was "no sense of closure". Going by that logic, he should stay until he at least wins something. I don't see why changing the character after Johto would have been any different, since he didn't win the Johto championship either. Or changing the character after any other regional championship since he didn't win any of them ever (except the Orange Islands, in which he was sort of obligated to go to Johto anyway in order to deliver the GS Ball). My point is that they could have easily ended it at the end of the Indigo League.
About Johto "still being part of the same series"... yes, it was, but what I'm saying is that it didn't have to be. They could have ended the series earlier. And Ash sort of did have his story concluded there... it's not as distinct as the conclusion of Yugi's story in Yu-Gi-Oh! since the story is pretty vague to begin with, but the main point of Ash's journey in Kanto was to compete in the Indigo League, which he did. Or win it, which he didn't, but he's never going to try again in the same region so that will never be concluded. The only other real goal he had at the time was to become a Pokémon Master... which, since the definition of "Pokémon Master" is unknown, is never going to happen regardless of how long they leave him in there.

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

Speaking of wanting character leave because of liking him,strangely enough because i care about Ash character i dont want him replaced. He deserves better than leaving cast without being used to full potential not getting proper closure. Like other traveling companions like Misty,May,Max etc which left before their time was up.
So this are my final thoughts why Ash shouldnt leave.

Ash as character is still fun and entertaining to me. Yes BW dumb him down a bit but he still posses that childish charm,naivety and personality traits which make him actually enjoyable to watch contributing to good character interaction. He also advance forward as trainer even in Unova containing DP maturity he used to have, with complete regression being myth.I dont see any point in getting rid of Ash right now, because his story simply isnt developed enough to allow for plausible conclusion clearly having room left to be done more. Winning one league isnt maximum writers could do with character and such a vague goal like pokemon master is.

Instead of getting rid of him starting out with another rookie learning from start, i would rather want to follow further progression of already established and experienced trainer like Ash is being taken to new and unknown directions. Who says his journey would have to stop after winning pokemon league and battling E4? That wont make him master, nor best trainer in world with there existing other regions and leagues to explore, rivals to beat, new pokemon to catch, enter various side quests with harder and bigger challenges like BF or Orange Island championship were to learn and prove himself as trainer.

We could also learn more about Ash past, family(like his parent), do more with ton of older pokemon which are rooting at Oaks lab etc. Possibilities are endless, and Ash can definitely grow forward as trainer having several flaws which need to be perfect, along with creating new obstacles. So why have discard everything to get cheap clone going from scratch? That wouldnt be something fresh,but rather disasterous throwing away all that potential which exists within current protagonist.

Whats few more years of following his journey, as long outcome is entertaining?I would rather enjoy in ride while it lasts.

Needless to say i know i already sound like broken record, but Ash is extremely popular being iconic to pokemon franchise already attracting new fans toward anime having big marketing value. Financially there simply doesnt exist reason to get rid of someone which is already doing well bringing profit, and risk everything.

There is also problem with Pikachu not being possible to replace franchise main mascot with yellow rodent and Ash being too much integrated within anime with people associating pokemon with those two. Getting rid of him involves risk of completely revamped anime failing within audience along with Ash departure creating backlash and drop of ratings.

Current formula isnt broken, there isnt anything wrong with Ash and it seems to me people who want him gone are rather growing out of anime becoming bored with it than anything else. Meaning they would get bored with his clone and new show too with problem not being in main protagonist but basic principle kid tv show like pokemon follow.

Perhaps your point might mean that Ash should stay as the main character, but have him grow up? While I would like Ash to grow up along with the kids watching him, they're going to have a problem keeping the show kiddy. If Ash grows up, then naturally, the show would have to grow up, introducing age-appropriate themes. We can't have grown-up Ash going kiddy and acting as if his brains went wrong. Of course I think Ash is cute as he is stupid now but a main character change would be fresh...that's all.

Originally Posted by Alphaphlare

A few more years IS a big deal cause the longer the keep him the more reluctant to get rid of him and the less likely they are to do all the things you want him to do which right now the writers seem to have NO interest in having Ash doing. Having the producers say OK we are going to get rid of him in 5 years is going to get Ash a lot more development than he would in ten if they decide not to replace him for a long time.

To be fair i dont see anything stopping writers from continuing Ash journey after he wins league. We hardly know anything about pokemon master quest with champion league which Lucian mentioned being just one of steps someone needs to overcome on road of becoming master.

Even when Ash wins his first pokemon league, given how we dont know much about his goal still having a lot to learn as trainer we could see him going on side quests similar to BF battling stronger challenges, enter other leagues etc,. Writers could do big steps forward with Ash as trainer still keeping him continuing journey of strong and already experienced trainer.
After all fans always wanted to see Ash being taken to new directions after he wins some big competition, being curious to find out how he would manage as recognized trainer and deal with pressure which comes with it.

For example when Tyson won world championship in Beyblade his story didnt ended there, with writers ding new things with him growing forward.

I believe they showed best with Sinnoh how even though Ash had strength required to win DP league, at same time with his fiasco against Bertha, Flint and other E4 members writers emphasized on fact how regardless of improvement he made there is still long way to go for Ash with there being a lot more to lean not being ready to challenge higher class of trainers.

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

At this point, I think expecting any type of ending other than maybe Ash and Pikachu running off to an unnamed region to capture more Pokemon is expecting too much. Just because other characters have left doesn't mean that there's no point to keeping Ash around, especially when he's the main star of the show and his friends are supporting cast members by comparison. The story has always been about Ash and Pikachu meeting new friends, capturing new Pokemon and battling other trainers. I don't see how his friends leaving means that there's no point to his character when they were never necessary components to his story to begin with.

Well at very least i could see Ash winning some big tournament/competition before anime ends coming closer to goal of becoming pokemon master than its case now.

Good point about anime revolving around Ash and not traveling companions, but perhaps Gliscord meant how each of his friends was in a way necessary for Ash growth as trainer over course of journey. After all Brock and Misty teach him basics being like his mentors becoming better and less impulsive as trainer, with May Ash grew more mature as character, with Dawn he developed new battling style including some of coordinator techniques in battles etc.

Originally Posted by Destiny Queen

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Perhaps your point might mean that Ash should stay as the main character, but have him grow up? While I would like Ash to grow up along with the kids watching him, they're going to have a problem keeping the show kiddy. If Ash grows up, then naturally, the show would have to grow up, introducing age-appropriate themes. We can't have grown-up Ash going kiddy and acting as if his brains went wrong. Of course I think Ash is cute as he is stupid now but a main character change would be fresh...that's all.

Ash wouldnt need to necessarily grow up to have believable development being taken to bigger challenges. DP showed how he has what it takes to win league, and hypothetically if he finally wins it in Unova its not like writers couldnt prolonge his journey going to new regions to catch new pokemon and learn new things growing as trainer.

Admittedly having Ash age with pokemon doing some sort of time skip like Naruto,One Piece, Bakugan or other shows do would be intriguing allowing for more significant development to be done within character but somehow i doubt writers would want to do that. I doubt it is because of small kids either, because plenty kids tv shows age characters with young viewers not having problem to associate themselves with main characters.

As for Ash being replaced by a new main character, i dont see how would that make things more fresh in reality when his replacement would still do gym quest, have Pikachu as main mascot and do things which Ash already does. That would be rather pointless.

Not to mention Ash can be refreshed as character too. Through new pokemon, clothes, new subplots being introduced within story etc. Its not like older character cant bring new and unexpected twists to story too, being another reason why i dont see any point in having Ash replaced. Granted his friends do get replaced(for rather shallow reasons going by mr. Hidaka interview) but difference is that they arent driving force of this show being its main mascot. Something which Ash happens to be with whole pokemon revolving around his journey

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

Ash wouldnt need to necessarily grow up to have believable development being taken to bigger challenges. DP showed how he has what it takes to win league, and hypothetically if he finally wins it in Unova its not like writers couldnt prolonge his journey going to new regions to catch new pokemon and learn new things growing as trainer.

Admittedly having Ash age with pokemon doing some sort of time skip like Naruto,One Piece, Bakugan or other shows do would be intriguing allowing for more significant development to be done within character but somehow i doubt writers would want to do that. I doubt it is because of small kids either, because plenty kids tv shows age characters with young viewers not having problem to associate themselves with main characters.

Okay, I agree with that.

As for Ash being replaced by a new main character, i dont see how would that make things more fresh in reality when his replacement would still do gym quest, have Pikachu as main mascot and do things which Ash already does. That would be rather pointless.

Not to mention Ash can be refreshed as character too. Through new pokemon, clothes, new subplots being introduced within story etc. Its not like older character cant bring new and unexpected twists to story too, being another reason why i dont see any point in having Ash replaced. Granted his friends do get replaced(for rather shallow reasons going by mr. Hidaka interview) but difference is that they arent driving force of this show being its main mascot. Something which Ash happens to be with whole pokemon revolving around his journey

Yeah, but I mentioned this a lot of times before: Characters like Ruby in the Pokemon Adventures manga would've been pretty fresh. He's into contests, he's not "gym material", yet he's competent in battles. I'm guessing he'd show a lot more potential than Ash by balancing traits in the game and introducing them properly in the anime. He wouldn't have a Pikachu as the mascot either. Who says the main character replacing Ash has to be an exact copy of him? XDD

Also, Gold was another 'fresh' example. Of course, he's the typical Shounen character, but he doesn't go around collecting badges, either. Rather, the gym leaders are there to help Gold's quest, and some of them have very amusing roles - like, Falkner being the policeman investigating Silver's pokemon theft.

Originally Posted by Destiny Queen

Yeah, but I mentioned this a lot of times before: Characters like Ruby in the Pokemon Adventures manga would've been pretty fresh. He's into contests, he's not "gym material", yet he's competent in battles. I'm guessing he'd show a lot more potential than Ash by balancing traits in the game and introducing them properly in the anime. He wouldn't have a Pikachu as the mascot either. Who says the main character replacing Ash has to be an exact copy of him? XDD

Reason why i believe Ash replacement might end up as clone,is because there isnt much difference they could do with new character if basic formula remains unchanged.
Other than different backstory and some other small changes writers would likely still use same old formula(proven to work) of typical Shonen hero saving day with Pikachu(no,they wouldnt replace main mascot of pokemon franchise) going around the world collecting badges and competing in pokemon league.
Personality wise he cant be much different from Ash because having someone naive who is bound to do "right thing" is writers way to appeal to new kids making it easier for them to associate with Ash type of character.

I would rather prefer that pokemon stays like DBZ was or Naruto,One Piece etc for example are.
Same show with same timeline,continuity and older characters actually having chance to be seen again. Quite frankly i would rather have that pokemon series end when time comes with character who started everything and his traveling companions being treated as one big continuity which introduced us to world of s pokemon giving us insight in their adventures.
I want to remember pokemon as something which played part in my childhood having good memories of it instead of everything being dropped by starting out new series with cheap attempt of replicating original show and Ash character ruining picture pokemon anime had and everything it stood for.

Feel free to disagree, but i dont think revamped anime with new protagonist would be nearly as popular and iconic like current pokemon series are. People are too used to Ash as representative of pokemon series and current formula to accept such huge change. After 15 years ship has sailed away, sunk end exploded to do something similar to what Yugioh or Beyblade does and expect people remaining interested. Not to mention above mentioned examples still suffered from drop of ratings from retooling anime and franchise after only 5 years, so i cant even imagine how much of negative effect would leave replacing so liked and iconic character like Ash with all past companions and past ending terminated after decade and half.