Thread: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

I don't see what is so wrong about wanting to watch the show for this long. I never expected closure, I'm just here to enjoy myself. The real question is "Does the show need Ash?" There are many positions for and against this, and they are equally credible. You can have your opinion, but do not assume it is my own.

EDIT: Consider this a slight apology for earlier, but I will not defer from my stance.

If he was replaced, it would basically be Yu-Gi-Oh GX.

That being said, I kind of wish that AG had Brendan and May with a third person, or at least Ash, May, and Brendan.

What's wrong with Ash that would make people want to replace him?
That's like the switches in Yu-Gi-Oh (crybaby Yugi/hammy Yami to lazy bum (and later evil) Judai to boring invincible gadget genius Yusei to current goofy loser guy Yuma), and none of them are perfect. (Yusei was the closest for having a loss record you could count on one hand, so people deemed him boring)

Ash hardly has a story to conclude, since the concept of "Pokémon master" (his goal) is intentionally left in the air for the players/viewers to decide.

And he has plenty of good characteristics too. He's a nice kid with a lot of spirit. He's also ten and in a world where the concept of our games is real. The godlike powers of Olympus 'Mons are way out of his (or anyone's) reach. But he's living the dream and still manages to get farther than most trainers ever do.

Originally Posted by Miar

Ash hardly has a story to conclude, since the concept of "Pokémon master" (his goal) is intentionally left in the air for the players/viewers to decide.

It was clearly defined in episode 1 as "the world's best Pokemon trainer".

But yeah, this is a ridiculous debate. The series isn't aimed at old nerds who "want closure" for the main character, Pikachu is the face of the franchise and isn't going anywhere, and the idiocy of "hey, we'll retire the main character and replace him with a new kid who has the same personality and the same pokemon and the same goal and... uh... yeah" should speak for itself. Come on.

Ash is named after the creator, in the Japanese version
Ash was the star from the very beginning for more than 14 years
Ash and Pikachu are widely known around the world as a pair - and yes, while Pika might be the more known one of these two, Ash is widely known too... lots of people who don't know anything about Pokémon, know that it's about Ash and his Pikachu... also, previews to Best Wishes in Japan before it started, said something like: "these two are back... the best combination..." - which meant Ash and Pikachu

If the writers had any intention to remove Ash and start a brand new cast, they'd do it by now like Yugioh and others did... after 14 years, it's kind of ridiculous to believe they'll do it...
Especially when there's absolutely no reason to do it... they refresh the show every gen, starting it as a "new series", updating Ash's design (which usually involves putting him in the new games hero's outfit, pretty much making HIM the representive of that game hero in the anime), giving him all new Pokémon and new friends... it works, why change anything?

There's just no reason at all to give an ending to Ash's story... not to mention how an ending would probably be very ridiculous and nothing special like some may imagine it to be... Pokémon is a never ending story, anyone who honestly believed and believes after all this time that the writers are trying to reach some kind of conclusion, is in some serious denial and should just stop watching

I find it funny how some people are so addicted to Ash that they want his story to end simply to "be able" to stop watching this show
Guess what? even if Ash stays, you're free to do whatever you want and I, the great Piplup, give all of Bulbagarden members a permission to stop watching this kids cartoon whenever they feel like they had enough of it! I promise, the world will not randomly explode the day you'll stop watching!

Originally Posted by Cloudskye

In the third Pokemon movie (not the actual movie, but the short before it), it's stated by Ash that it's the one year anniversary of Pikachu and Ash meeting. That would make him 11.

No... they never said it's Ash's birthday or that Ash is any older than 10 - it was just you assuming things
Time pass, characters don't age - doesn't make sense? well, mouse shooting electric isn't really the most logical thing either, yet you don't have any problem with that
Also, lots of other cartoons follow the "characters never age" thing, so it's not surprising at all... I'm always shocked at people getting annoying over something that's SO common in cartoons...

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Didn't Digimon do the same too? Ash being replaced is no different than all these other franchises.

These didn't replace the main character after 14 years... this is where your comparasion fails

Originally Posted by Alphaphlare

I think the reason people (including me) want Ash to age is give the show continuity. With Ash immortal nothing matters. You can cut out any region and it would not change a thing. Since it has no meaning they should replace Ash, take advantage of more pokes and give us something with an arc

Lies, the show is constantly referencing past events... AG had lots of these, DP had less but still some, BW had the least so far but it still had some (Ash's room, Oak mentioning regions Ash were to before, Oak telling Ash he'll take care of his Poké, Looker returning in the TR/TP eps...)

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Older fans are now in their 20's+, any older fan who is this attached to a character that has long been done to death over 700 episodes really needs to move on.

Funny to hear that from you... why not YOU move on and stop watching this cartoon if it bothers you so much?

Ash is not going to be here in the year 2050.

I'll remember this quote to laugh at you in 2050 :)

I don't really see the point in replacing him, either. It's not like he'll be able to accomplish his goal in Isshu anyway since conquering one region != becoming the world's best pokemon trainer. How is that closure if he doesn't accomplish in what he set out to do?

If they were ever going to drop Satoshi, it would have been at the end of Diamond & Pearl since Best Wishes! is essentially a reboot. I highly doubt we'll see yet another reboot in generation 6, so it looks like we're stuck with Satoshi for the time being.

Originally Posted by Piplup

Ash is widely known too... lots of people who don't know anything about Pokémon, know that it's about Ash and his Pikachu

Lol, I actually just tested that idea. I asked my cousins who know absolutely nothing about Pokemon, who was the main Pokemon and character. They said, some guy named Ash and Pikachu one of them called Pikachu, "Pokemon" lol There ages are 9, 11, 12,16,17. I couldn't agree more with you Piplup.

Yeah, Ash and Pikachu are very well known. All the more reason, I can't see the writers giving him up.

Originally Posted by Flynn

If they were ever going to drop Satoshi, it would have been at the end of Diamond & Pearl since Best Wishes! is essentially a reboot. I highly doubt we'll see yet another reboot in generation 6, so it looks like we're stuck with Satoshi for the time being.

But, Pocket Monsters Best Wishes isn't a reboot though. We've had many references to the past, Pikachu's move set, Hansamu, that stack of trophies in the first episode, and Orchid-Hakase even mentions the older Pokemon. There's also Hanako who talks about all her son's journey.

O suurrrre, Replace Ash and watch the ratings sink like a garbage disposal.
No, I do NOT want Ash gone. It would kill the anime and turn it into a Yu-Gi-Oh style UTTER CRAPCYCLE!!!!

No... they never said it's Ash's birthday or that Ash is any older than 10 - it was just you assuming things
Time pass, characters don't age - doesn't make sense?

Wait. Assumptions and logical thought process is a different thing. If it's an anniversary of something, a year must have passed.

If a year has passed, then he is a year older by then. Furthermore, Pikachu and Ash met on his borthday, so it would have been his borthday, correct?

People think ratings would sink? How does that make any sense? New kids watch the anime every year, they will watch whoever the next main guy is, similar to how there's a new female every gen.

We old fans are not supposed to still be watching after 15 years anyway. We do not count.

Quite honestly, I would have looooved it if they had replaced Ash right after DP. It seemed to be the most conclusive and the match with Cynthia and Flint would have been a nice little portal to what could happen to Ash in the future...or something like that.

But yeah, whatever, I get my cafemocashipping, so it all works out in the end.

I don't see a reason as to why they should replace Ash from a marketing standpoint. He's familiar and most likely we will all die before his final goal is ever realized. I'm pretty sure pokemon is meant to have a fleeting demographic...as long as they have someone to advertise the newest games, they don't have to care about dragging out a story or repetitiveness or anything like that.

Maybe they just don't want to let go of Ash because of his current success...or they can't come up with a new character that embodies the franchise as well as Ash does. Making a new character with Ash's personality is just kinda...wasteful -_-'

EDIT: I guess I should have skimmed the thread more :P Apologies for ad nauseum.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

People think ratings would sink? How does that make any sense? New kids watch the anime every year, they will watch whoever the next main guy is, similar to how there's a new female every gen.

We old fans are not supposed to still be watching after 15 years anyway. We do not count.

Uh ok, New fans know about Ash and Pikachu too now watching Best Wishes, every one knows about them not just older fans. Any ways, did you not see people comparing Pokemon to Yugioh? Once the main characters got replaced the ratings went down, each series it did. Same thing would happen to Pokemon, as some one said, Pokemon's ratings have always made it pretty much in the top 10 with Ash still as the main character. So the people in charge of Pokemon would have to be insane to get rid of Ash, with seeing what happened to Digimon/Yugioh. Sorry, I get crazy in debates like theseXD

Originally Posted by Rex Kamex

Why should One Piece count for this? The bond between the pirate main character and his pirate crewmates has been emphasized so much that permanently replacing crew members in it wouldn't make sense.

And doesnt same goes for main character of pokemon series at this point?One Piece i used as example to emphasize how ridiculous it would be to replace driving force and core of pokemon series after 14 years who is mascot of this show.

While some members of crew in theory could be replaced like pokemon did,take away Luffy from main cast in One Piece and show fall a parts.At this point same goes for Ash,he became too iconic and recognized with whole pokemon show revolving around his journey that having him replace and start over with new protagonist who wont be much dfferent wouldnt make much sense at all.

As we can see pokemon anime is still doing very good(not as well like he used to but still results are pretty impressive) with Ash being well accepted among new generations having marketing value.There simply doesnt exist any reason for writers to risk everything when they already have character who was proved to be appropriate for this job.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

If the writers thought they could not replace characters they would not keep doing it. The original trio would have stayed for the entire run and Misty and Brock would be in every saga.

The only reason people are saying this is Ash hasn't left, but it's not unthinkable.

Otherwise why isn't the shows cast n

While original trio is iconic and most recognized group this show had reason why Misty and Brock were replaced why Ash hasnt is because they arent important to series like main star is who is driving force of whole show.

Writers simply cant afford to lose Ash explaining his long stay.

Originally Posted by Rex Kamex

Some do, anyway. Still, the fact that they're still making Yu-Gi-Oh! series and Digimon series suggests they're still doing well in ratings and stuff. But I'll still wait and see what happens after Japan's current Yu-Gi-Oh! series and Digimon series end.

Sales of both of them are doing good which is i suppose reason for series being kept alive but ratings of Yugioh Zexal and current Digimon are pretty underwhelming.Yugioh GX was received very negatively among fans when original series ended having low ratings,and Digimon while good isnt going well compared to his previous better days

Judging by general response you can find online Zexal series arent faring much better ratings wise being far away from top 10 being complained about quite a lot and i suspect how main reason why series are still going is because merchandize products like cards are being sell successfully.

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

To be perfectly honest, I don't think that Ash's departure would offer much closure and I don't think the writers are really interested in appealing to the show's older fans over the actual target audience. Besides, I think that they would just have Ash and Pikachu traveling to another unnamed region since Ash obviously likes to travel and wouldn't want to be in a position where he had to stay in one location for a significant period of time, such as a Gym Leader or a Frontier Brain.

Agreed,this is also reason why having Ash replaced right now wouldnt be beneficial for anyone.If they closed down his story right now that would result with crappy and poorly written closure with Ash character not being developed enough to allow to tie up loose ends in his story properly.
To make his growth as trainer believable making notable step forward in his career of pokemon trainer which would serve as indication of his character coming very close toward ultimate goal that isnt possible to achieve with current development right now.

If Sinnoh was anything to go by and his current performance in Unova it shows how Ash still isnt ready to win league,let along challenge E4.
We can see with his performance against Bertha and Flint in Sinnoh how E4 are too much of a challenge for him being in entirely different league.He had potential to perhaps win tournament but his confrontation vs E4 or champion basing on his strength and lack of preparation would be unrealistic and pointless.Writers could fast forward things making Ash capable all of a sudden for such results but problem is that this would result with poorly done set up and rushed ending with his challenge of E4 after league leading to nothing.

Until Ash shows some gradual and notable step forward becoming ready and skilled enough to go on bigger things to allow for believable ending he shouldnt be replaced from story standpoint either..
I think we had enough crappy departures from main characters already with some of them like Misty never being given any real closure.We dont need another screw up with Ash story too.

As for why the cast isn't the same now as it was back in 1998, or 1997 when the series started in Japan, I think that the writers wanted to introduce new characters from the newest games and put them in the main cast. I believe that there was some information from a website or a blog from one of the writers that said that they wanted to try something different with introducing Contests and having new characters to boost ratings. Given Misty's personality, I don't think that she would have wanted to do Contests and they still wanted to show new characters from the R/S games.

well according to interview with ex director Masamitsu Hidaka reason why Misty and later girls were replaced is because writers like to add new female fan service with each new generation to try out new designs or to cite his own words"to add new eye candy"which is rather stupid reason to replace someone since all of them have appeal.

Another part of reason why original trio got dismantled at end of Johto according to ex head writer mr.Shudo was because ratings started to drop in Johto with writers wanting to add some change and find someone more suitable to promote contests.They could kept Misty according to his words replacing TR instead or Brock but since he didnt cared much for character he decided to give her axe.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

People think ratings would sink? How does that make any sense? New kids watch the anime every year, they will watch whoever the next main guy is, similar to how there's a new female every gen.

We old fans are not supposed to still be watching after 15 years anyway. We do not count.

And Satoshi will be new to the new kids watching. The people who want "closure" for the character are the ones who have been watching for 15 years - the ones you said don't count.


Also, the Yugioh example isn't really the same.
Yugioh started out as a comic about a kid who played games. It got popular and turned into an anime. This comic eventually intrduced a card game people liked so much licensors wanted to create a real-world version to cash in on its popularity, and the author got told to feature this card game a lot, introduce new cards on a general basis, and make the rules logical so they could easily be used in real life. Eventually the series ended, but the card game was still popular, so the licensors commissioned new comics and new TV series based on the cards for the sake of advertising.

So you had a comic turned into a TV series turned into a card game turned into more TV series. Hardly the same as Pokemon's "TV series based on a video game series" situation.

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

If Sinnoh was anything to go by and his current performance in Unova it shows how Ash still isnt ready to win league

Sure he is. The Sinnoh leage showed that he's definitely league champion material, since the guy he lost to was stronger than any participant in any of the prior leagues he had taken part in, and he still did better against this guy than anyone else in the league. That was the entire point of Takuto.

Originally Posted by Baron Dante

Wait. Assumptions and logical thought process is a different thing. If it's an anniversary of something, a year must have passed.

If a year has passed, then he is a year older by then. Furthermore, Pikachu and Ash met on his borthday, so it would have been his borthday, correct?

You're missing my point: time pass, yet no one grows up...
There's a reason why they never mentioned that this is "Ash's birthday" or that "Ash is now 11"
They intentually called it "the day we first met" and didn't add anything else at all
Again, it's very common for cartoons (especially long running kids shows like this one) to never age the characters, even if they clearly have time pass and even if it doesn't make any sense at all (as if a show about penguins shooting bubbles out of their beaks make any sense anyway)

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

kids watch the anime every year

So, by this logic, if it's successful enough with the current formula and current 14-years-old main character, WHY THE JOHTO WOULD THEY CHANGE IT?!
If it's not broken, don't fix it...

Originally Posted by Adamant

people who want "closure" for the character are the ones who have been watching for 15 years

Not to mention how that's a big lie to say all of us older fans want a "closure"
I actually find it extremely ridiculous of anyone still watches this show despite wanting it to end so much... if you really don't enjoy it anymore for what it is - just stop watching...
Most of the older fans who still watch it probably enjoy it for what it is and don't desperately hope for an ending, because most of logical people who would come to realize they don't like it anymore and prefer it to end, will just stop watching and move on with their life
So no, there's absolutely no point to ending Ash's story, since it appeals to both its main target audience who would likely watch it anyway regardless of Ash or new guy being there (so why bother?) AND also appeals to some older fans like us who still follow the show to this day (so if it kept us here more than 14 years, why change anything?)
So yeah... it's really ridiculous to believe they writers have any plans to end Ash's story any time in the near future if at all

Enjoy the show for what it is or just STOP WATCHING
I already gave all Bulbagarden's members my Piplup Seal of Approval to stop watching kids cartoons that don't entertain them anymore, so it should be as easy as turning off the TV, changing the channel, stop buying DVDs and not *deleted*