Thread: Do you like the Rocket trio's role in BW?

Originally Posted by Hellion

I feel differently as I'd prefer them to be entertaining while keeping the improvements that BW did regarding their story

The problem is, those improvements are pretty much non-existent. Everything before BW 006 was the same shit people complained about pre-BW: failed thefts that only eat away episode time. After that, they had that string of utterly useless appearances during that boring meteorite stuff that did jack shit to advance their characters. And now, they're back to trying to steal the pokemon-of-the-day, and failing.

The only real difference between pre- and post- BW is that they now show no signs of being able to produce human emotions.

Originally Posted by Kazamatsuri

The trio actually uses high-tech gadgetry to entrap the heroes,

They did that before BW as well. They also made a lot of these high tech gadgets themselves, showing that they were actually rather intelligent despite their constant buffoonery.

And the battles are still as engaging as ever.

What, all three of them? I mean, seriously, before Kojirou got his first pokemon 25 episodes into the series, the trio had all of one battle. And all of those have resulted in a loss for the Rocket trio.

And I like how they actually maintain some of their dignity after losing in the end.

Why, because they replaced "blasting off" with jet packs? Y'know, after losing against terrifying pokemon like "untrained starter" and "floating cotton balls"?

You don't necessarily have to make people laugh in order to be entertaining or engaging.

You don't, but the serious Rocket trio haven't managed to do that, either. The current trio just comes across as inferior expies of the Ginga-Dan.

While TR's character development in BW is awesome. I do kinda wish Team Rocket appeared more and befriended more Pokemon. Some of there crazy ass plans were interesting like the Breeding Center Secret, episode. There constant battling helps the group Pokemon get stronger, I mean in BW all Satoshi's Pokemon are very under trained, without them they won't get stronger. Musashi's rivalry with Yamato, was funny at times and fun to watch, I wonder how they'd react if she showed up in BW.

I do kinda miss Nyasu's funny catty ways, scratching people's faces up, that smug attitude at times. The only thing I fear that would happen is TPCi, "alliterations galore".

Originally Posted by Dogasu

The problem is, those improvements are pretty much non-existent. Everything before BW 006 was the same shit people complained about pre-BW: failed thefts that only eat away episode time. After that, they had that string of utterly useless appearances during that boring meteorite stuff that did jack shit to advance their characters. And now, they're back to trying to steal the pokemon-of-the-day, and failing.

The only real difference between pre- and post- BW is that they now show no signs of being able to produce human emotions.

I agree with you on that last part but the thing is, even when they were "producing emotions" they were for the most part just as interesting to me as when the look up stuff on their ipad in BW, emotion production or not. Seeing the same overdone Mecha + Blastoff formula every week didn't really entertain me either. What I'm saying is I'm glad they made some improvements (no blastoffs, more badass, Sakaki and the whole organization playing a bigger role, more Rocket recurring characters like Flint, the Team Plasma rivalry), but also kept the bonds that they had pre-BW and a slightly toned down version of the humour of the past. I'm also saddened that a lot of the character developpement pre-BW, regarding their personality and relationship, was made static in BW.

I enjoy their role in the new anime. They finally got acknowledged by Giovanni like they always wanted to and are able to showcase the extreme skills Rocket agents have that was rarely seen until now.

It was the Team Rocket I've always wanted~

I like that the BW trio doesn't appear in every episode and seems to have an ongoing storyline, but I feel like the writers might as well have replaced them with Team Plasma grunts if they were going to completely change their personalities.

Originally Posted by Dogasu

They did that before BW as well. They also made a lot of these high tech gadgets themselves, showing that they were actually rather intelligent despite their constant buffoonery.

I am aware of the ever common electricity-proof mechas, as well as other creative inventions used to capture Pokemon. But I don't remember a single instance prior to Best Wishes in which the trio held Ash and Co. back from rescuing their friends by means other than the pitfall trap. Maybe my mind's just a blur, but if there were any instances in the first 660 episode where TR held the trainers back by other means, I'd say they were few and far between.

What, all three of them? I mean, seriously, before Kojirou got his first pokemon 25 episodes into the series, the trio had all of one battle. And all of those have resulted in a loss for the Rocket trio.

Character-wise, they did have a rocky start in BW, I'll give you that. I admit that I only found 2 out of 5 of their 1st BW confrontations Ash (and Co.) to be engaging. And I do agree that many of their appearances afterwards, despite having significance later on, were a waste of episode space (though the same could be said for many pre-BW episodes as well). But BW025 onwards, I think they've found the right balance. We're actually the battle action that was supposedly lacking before. In all but one TR encounter with Ash and Co., both Woobat and Yamask have engaged in heavy-handed combat.

Why, because they replaced "blasting off" with jet packs? Y'know, after losing against terrifying pokemon like "untrained starter" and "floating cotton balls"?

I know I'm just stating the obvious, but villains don't have to win battles 24/7 to be conceived as a viable threat. I know you previously stated that the writers never meant for the trio to be a threat. But it does appear to be the writers intent now. I for one, like this change.

You don't, but the serious Rocket trio haven't managed to do that, either. The current trio just comes across as inferior expies of the Ginga-Dan.

I would say that the trio's dullest moment BW025 and onwards was BW029, to which you yourself argued them to be perfectly in character to their pre-BW personas. Like I said before, they've only appeared in a few episodes from the point in question. As they appear in more and more episodes, my opinion of them may change depending on how they are handled in the future. But so far, I like what I see in them and haven't had reason to tune them out.

I have to say yes.While i enjoyed their goofiness and comedy aspects they brought i for once liked that Team Rocket became more competent instead of being relegated to status of punching bags again.

Trio of Jessie,James and Meowth became more serious,better organized and more creative than they were ever before being given important role to play in Best Wishes now being recognized by Giovanni like they always wanted to be.They also became better at battling,managed to escape away through different kind of means(like jet packs)instead of being blasted off having some success compared to constant failures prior to BW.

I also firmly disagree with constatation how "TR change destroyed their characters losing their personality".There is difference between personality change and lose with transformation through Jessie,James and Meowth went not happening in reality over night.During whole course of pokemon series TR biggest desire was to become recognized by Giovanni and organization as worthy members of Rocket society being handed over bigger role possibly becoming promoted in future.Considering how their desire was fulfilled it was to expect that they will change as characters taking their mission and current status seriously wanting to prove themselves to their boss.
Its not like they have been deprived of their old persona entirely either.If episodes like BW 2(if im not mistaken),25 or 29 are anything to go by it showed how older traits still exist in them showing signs of their older personality at times with their serious side prevailing at the moment.

Not appearing in every episode anymore just shows how writers at this moment only want to use TR screen time in productive manner bringing them up only when needed compared to previous days when they were present all the time for their main purpose(comic relief) taking up often screen time from other characters with several battles or important events being interrupted because of that.

In short in my opinion writers made right step forward with Rocket trio giving them more importance actually being treated as threat in this show for a change which i cant complain about really.
So far they have been doing good job and hopefully that wont go down the drain later on.

Originally Posted by Hellion

What I'm saying is I'm glad they made some improvements (no blastoffs, more badass, Sakaki and the whole organization playing a bigger role, more Rocket recurring characters like Flint, the Team Plasma rivalry)

They still blast off. I will give the writers credit for trying to come up with new ways to have the trio exit the episodes at the beginning of the series (smoke bomb, hang glider, etc.) But these days, they seem to rely on the jet packs just as much as they did the old "blasting off" again. Even though they no longer yell "ya na kanji!!," it's the same damn thing.

Sakaki and the organization playing a bigger role shouldn't have any effect on how the trio acts toward one another. The trio was always professional when talking to their boss / other members of the organization, but then went back to being their normal selves as soon as the video phones were off. No one stays in "professional mode" 24/7.

And Flint manages to be even more boring than the Rocket trio, so I wouldn't count his inclusion as an "improvement."

Finally, we don't know how the Rocket / Plasma rivalry even plays out due to the whole earthquake thing.

I'm not saying that the old Rocket trio was perfect, by any means. There were problems that definitely needed to be addressed. But, for the most part, I feel like all of those problems are still there, with the added bonus of the trio losing what made them so loveable in the first place. This is not an "improvement" in my eyes.

Originally Posted by Kazamatsuri

But I don't remember a single instance prior to Best Wishes in which the trio held Ash and Co. back from rescuing their friends by means other than the pitfall trap.

DP 163. Aired less than a year go.

I know I'm just stating the obvious, but villains don't have to win battles 24/7 to be conceived as a viable threat.

But you'd think they'd win at least one battle :/

I guess my big problem is that everyone acts like the trio is so much more "competent" and "badass" now when they really aren't. All of the stuff people praise them for now is stuff that's been done before, and their failure to success ratio is just as lopsided as ever. The characters didn't "evolve"; they just turned into completely different people because the animators couldn't be assed to come up with a few new character desigins.

Originally Posted by Dogasu

I guess my big problem is that everyone acts like the trio is so much more "competent" and "badass" now when they really aren't. All of the stuff people praise them for now is stuff that's been done before, and their failure to success ratio is just as lopsided as ever. The characters didn't "evolve"; they just turned into completely different people because the animators couldn't be assed to come up with a few new character desigins.

Dogasu, I am exactly of the same opinion as you...

I'm starting to find them going after the pokemon of the day again to be tiresome. I didn't mind a little of it, but why can't they at least have competent failures like the one from BW6?

Its like after they switched to white, they went back to their usual routine just sans the humor.

Actually I wouldn't mind a bit if TR went back to being a bit more humorous. I'm kinda on the fence about things about Team Rocket. But, today I watched,"For the Love of Meowth" this morning on CN and the things they do in this episode are kinda funny. Jessie grabbing Purugly's tail revealing it's fat, it choking Meowth, Purugly getting her revenge for Meowth leading her on. It was funny. I don't know what I would pick, TR in BW showing up every once is a while is nice like a 3 ep in a row thing and a 2 ep break is nice. If the writers put a little more work into making them more greater then they are now, like bringing back Butch and Cassidy and having them participate in more rocket events that would be great, having them participate in more events period would be great. I'm liking there role in Kanto more, so hopefully the writers can get a little less lazy and do them like they were in Kanto a bit more. Heck, I think TR could be great funny and badass characters at the same time if the writers worked at it.

Not so much. I like their crazy technology and stuff, but I miss all of their personality quirks and antics.

The writers ruined them! You can't change a ton of failures to super villians!

Probably. I haven't seen any episodes, but from what I've heard they're pretty much awesome now.

I hate the change. I love their old, goofy self. And seeing them in every episode didn't bother me.