Thread: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

Yes I like his role.

He can be entertaining, but he's a bit too flamboyant for my taste. Always doing his over the top poses.... The poses that remind me of Sailor Moon. In the name of food, Cilan will punish you!!!..... Yeah.

But, um, he's snatching too many episodes for himself. Or maybe he's just taking over. These little filler episodes could be showing Team Plasma and N right now!!!

Originally Posted by NfiNity

But, um, he's snatching too many episodes for himself. Or maybe he's just taking over. These little filler episodes could be showing Team Plasma and N right now!!!

Please stop mentioning N and Team Plasma in threads irrelevant to them. Thank you.

Ah, oh... I do that a lot, don't I? Sorry. It's hard.

I LOVE Cilan's role in BW. Even if the rest of an episode is boring, I can count on Cilan to be interesting, at least! Honestly, he's my favorite part of BW, and he kind of reminds me of an ever-present Barry (which is a good thing). It's also nice to finally have a male traveling companion that hogs the spotlight. No offense to Brock or Tracey, but Cilan is the by far the most entertaining of the companions.

The one issue I have with Cilan's role in BW is that his Pokemon get no character development. He's a connoisseur who judges peoples' compatibility with their Pokemon, but ironically, he's never really shown interacting with them outside of battle. Other than that, though, I'm impressed with Cilan's role in the anime.

I do enjoy Cilan. I like the fact that he has personality and good interactions with everyone he meets. As much as I liked Brock, I'm glad that we got Cilan who brings a breath of fresh air.

However I feel that he isn't developed as well as he could be. But apparently that is the trend in BW.

It seems the writers have pretty much forgotten that he wants to be an S-ranked POKEMON Connoisseur. They are so quick to slap on a new interest or hobby for him. I would really like it if they gave an episode where Cilan worked on getting his S-ranking. Perhaps giving him a rival who is S-ranked. He needs to work on his own Pokemon also.


But there is one thing that irks me about Cilan. It's his biased fans.

Yes, Cilan is interesting. But there are still some major holes in his character just like every other character in BW. Yet hardly anyone calls him out on it. They are quick to criticize Ash, Iris, Trip and even Bianca about their poor characterization, but never Cilan. Seriously, a lot of the things you guys complain about other characters happen to Cilan. But you guys are too caught up in his sparkles, and his VA. Take away his wonderful voice and his over-the-topness and you got another BW character that needs A LOT OF WORK.

I like how Cilan's role is a good mix of humor and strength at the same time. He doesn't make me bored. Which is a good thing and he can hold his own in battles which is another good thing.

No cause he doesn't do anything.

Originally Posted by Catzeye

It seems the writers have pretty much forgotten that he wants to be an S-ranked POKEMON Connoisseur. They are so quick to slap on a new interest or hobby for him. I would really like it if they gave an episode where Cilan worked on getting his S-ranking. Perhaps giving him a rival who is S-ranked. He needs to work on his own Pokemon also.

Actually, I don't even think he wants to be an S-Rank Connoisseur. He never really said that was what he was aiming for. In "a connoisseur's revenge", Cilan was basically explaining to Ash that there are more pokemon connoisseurs other than him in the Unova region. In order to help his explanation, he went a bit into detail about the different class levels of connoisseurs.

My problem with him is that his goal hasn't really been touched on at all. After Ash beat him in a unique way, he said he basically wanted to learn all that he could from Ash. From Ash's perspective in the dreamyard episode, Cilan is aiming to be "the world's best connoisseur". When the gang met Alder, Cilan basically said he wanted to "travel while gaining strength as a pokemon connoiseur". But that's the main thing. The writers have basically shot themselves because they haven't eloquently displayed what he's aiming for. What level of strength/skill is he aiming for? Is he just trying to sharpen his skills and remain where he's at? Or is he trying to become an S-Class connoisseur?? We don't really know the answer to the latter because Cilan never said that was the class level that he was aiming for.

And to make things even worse, Cilan has spent a year traveling with Ash and he hasn't learned anything. He hasn't been shown to take anything Ash has done and apply it towards his goal, whatever that is. He's never put into a situation where he needs to learn a lesson. He's always being potrayed as this Harry Sue goody-good know-it-all, and that's annoying. He always has the answers to everything, and he's an expert Connoisseur, trainer, battler, Chef, Fisherman, Filmer, Detective, etc...I mean, c'mon that's ridiculous...I don't know where the writers expect to go with his lack of a goal because he's already got all the skills necessary to be a master of whatever the hell he's going for...

Cilan is great and adds the flavor to Best Wishes.

Yeah. I like him better than Brock. Brock was funny in his own ways, but it was mostly because he flirted with every single woman he met. Cilan doesn't flirt with other girls and can be equally funny as well.

Originally Posted by Catzeye

But there is one thing that irks me about Cilan. It's his biased fans.

You're more then welcome to disagree with the opinions expressed by posters, but please limit your criticism to their arguments and their opinions and not the posters themselves. That goes for everyone as well. Your point is especially moot when most of the Dent fans, including myself, would express or have expressed in this very thread the same criticism you have regarding the lack of focus on Dent's sommeliering.

I'm gonna speak for myself and say I agree with you that Dent's goal of becoming an S-Rank sommelier isn't really being developed in depth and that it could definitely add something to his character, but here's why I'm ultimately not bothered by it.

1- Dent's role is Best Wishes was never to be developed as much as other characters. Ultimately, as is often the case in shounen manga, there is an older character that acts as a mentor (read: exposition guy), won't have a ton of problems, a ton of hurdles and a deep intricate storyline, because that's just not what he (or in rare occasions she) is there for, so I'm not bothered that he's not getting what the writers have created no expectation for him to get. His role is to give exposition and make me laugh, mission accomplished on both front.

They are quick to criticize Ash, Iris, Trip and even Bianca about their poor characterization, but never Cilan.

To follow up on what I was saying, Dent's role from the get go has been to give exposition and to be the comic relief. All of the other characters listed above (though Bel, is kinda of an in-between) have had much bigger expectations for them as far as their quests, motivations, etc. Ultimately, Satoshi and Iris are both characters that have been created to have the audience root for them. Satoshi's the main character, has a clear objective (the League), clear hurdles standing in his way (Gym Leaders and rivals) and has to do a very clear thing to achieve that (strengthen his pokémon). Iris was originally portrayed as a character with again a clear goal (evolve Kibago), clear hurdles (Kibago couldn't master Dragon Rage, couldn't battle to save its life), clear struggles (lack of practical knowledge of battle, lack of knowledge how to make Kibago stronger) and clear problems (two pokémon that disobey her). In both cases, what the writers sought to achieve with those characters was to make the audience root for them, to be invested in their quests. The reason both characters (and rivals by extension) have been criticized more extensively is that the writers failed to deliver on the expectations they had created, the characters failed to achieve the roles for which they were created because of horrendous writing. Dent on the other hand totally fulfills the role for which he was created: give exposition and make the audience laugh.

2- Dent's personality is entertaining and engaging. Rooting for a character isn't the only way to be invested in a character. Dent makes me laugh and has great interactions with almost every character he encouters, often bringing other characters' strongest points, making them more interesting or more compelling. He's always passionate, so I'm interested in what he's passionate about. He's interested in what's happening, so what's happening is made more interesting. He's never bored, so he's never boring. Dent doesn't bring down scenes, or needlessly bitch out other people, he's a good friend; in short, he's likeable. Iris and Shooti, in contrast, both have very poor personalities, often seem like they couldn't care less about other characters. They're not interested so they're not interesting. They're bored so they're boring. And often, in their interactions with other characters, the other characters seem to be there to make them look good. Dent doesn't have that so that's why they're being criticized more.

3- He's actually being developped a bit. Not a whole lot, but as I said before, that's not why he's there so when we learn more about sommeliering, when we see a rival like Cabernet, when we see in his battle against Luke that he is using more Satoshi-like techniques, it actually feels like a cool bonus on his character.

In short, I like Dent, he fulfills the role he was created for, he's likeable and hilarious and while he could be developed a lot more, I'm more than satisfied with what we got so far. I think his Yanappu and Ishizumai have good personality but are majorly underused, and Maggyo never should have happened.

They are so quick to slap on a new interest or hobby for him.

It entertains me and keeps the character fresh to be honest. He's always doing some crazy antics and they're different. Sometimes, when he performs these hobbies he's good at them, other times, he fails in an hilarious fashion (like his detecting or his sciencing). I actually think it makes the character more well-rounded since he's not just about his own quest 24/7 and has other interests.

Originally Posted by Afrojisiac-19

he's an expert Connoisseur, trainer, battler, Chef, Fisherman, Filmer, Detective, etc...

Dent has not been portrayed as an expert battler... ever. Out of the main characters and rivals, he's got one of the poorest battling records.

On-screen battling record

Satoshi V:12 D:6 T:1 74%
Iris V:5 D:2 T:1 69% (Oh yeah, that's without the 98 wins she got before we saw the 99th on-screen, and oh yeah, she won 2 tournaments and characters are lining up to battle her, and oh yeah, her village elder and an actual Dragon Master think she's got oodles of potential and oh yeah, she had an episode centered about her displaying all her battle prowess by showing just how superior she was in every way to a Dragon trainer CotD.)
Dent V:2 D:3 T:0 40%
Shooti V:2 D:1 T:1 63% (78% with badges)
Bel V:0 D:3 T:0 0% (50% with badges)
Cabernet V:0 D:2 T:0 0% (33% with badges)
Kenyan V:2 D:2 T:0 50%
Langley V:2 D:2 T:1 50%
Luke V:2 D:1 T:0 66%

So yeah... Satoshi, Iris, Shooti, Kenyan, Langley and Luke all have better battling records than Dent and have been portrayed as being bigger threats than him. Also, the detective episode is pretty much built around the fact that Dent sucks at being a detective. The same goes to his scientific "skills", they're a gag to show his explanation actually make no sense and that he's wrong. To say he's a great battler and is good at everything is just not supported by the show.

I feel like the writers are merely adding designations to Cilan's role in this series, such as his obsession over the subway lines and detective work, in order to make his presence more relevant in situations that would otherwise not focus on him.

Cilan's main purpose as a gym leader in BW has been fulfilled and now the writers are left with the task of expanding his character without giving him a "real" long-term goal. Therefore, I am not surprised that Cilan is given a larger pool of interests and specialties; his character would have died rather quickly otherwise. This may make Cilan more realistic than the one or two-dimensional characters that BW is very common for, but at the same time, his interests have been introduced rather abruptly to the point of disbelief. Cilan never truly mentions his "passion" for science or detective work in episodes that did not require him to "use" his knowledge of these subject areas. Apparently the writer of BW054 was aware of Cilan's infallacies by having Iris assume that Cilan was also a Photo Connoisseur when he began to speak. It was refreshing to see that Cilan was not an expert at photography and putting the COTD (Robert) through great shame.

Unlike Ash or Iris, who blatantly express their interests for the world to see, it seems that the writers are still experimenting with Cilan by giving him a few number of odd purposes in some episodes that are rarely brought up again. Furthermore, it is because Cilan is always portrayed as an expert in these fields that I cannot sympathize with him whenever he does get exposure. Sure, Cilan does show emotion, and in many cases, his antics may be entertaining to watch, but why bother exposing his character at all if he rarely conveys any sense of weakness or insecurity?

Cilan has to be the most flexible character in all of BW, and yet, he is also the character that has yet to truly struggle for his place on the main cast. At least Brock's role as a Pokemon breeder and caretaker was tested in many of the episodes that had focused on him. Brock had even taught a few other characters how to properly raise their pokemon, justifying his knowledge in the subject area. Cilan, however, has yet to truly apply his "expertise" as a Pokemon Connoisseur in a way that can truly help others other than act as an observer. Cilan may have been surprised by Ash's battle tactics when they fought, but really, a lot of characters in the past were felled by Ash's straightforward yet innovative fighting style.

Some of the episodes in BW thus far were presented in the way that Cilan knows everything there is to know about a certain topic and that the other characters are left dumbfounded or inadequate in comparison. Cilan may very well fit the stereotype of "instant expert;" emphasis on the word "instant."

Really, the only thing that Cilan has to improve on is that he is an A-rank Pokemon Connoisseur and that there is still the S-class position. But really, what is the difference between the A-class and the S-class? At least Ash and Iris's goals are presented with milestones to signify improvement or progress (Ash obtaining eight badges and Iris's Axew becoming stronger). Unlike the C-class connoisseurs like Burgundy who must act as assistants to the higher-ranked individuals, A-class connoisseurs like Cilan are deemed worthy enough to set up their own evaluating shops. There is nothing to suggest that A-classes are any less adept at the profession than those in S-class. If anything, Cilan has been gifted with the lyrical prose that one needs to "evaluate" pokemon properly. I doubt that he will struggle much to get to the S-class position.

Brock may have also been an instant expert in his profession as a caretaker as well, but even so, he is consistently tested with the different types of pokemon that he had interacted with over the course of his time on the main cast. In many cases, Brock's interactions with pokemon had failed. Were Cilan's observations as a connoisseur ever inaccurate or just plain wrong? Other than a few battles, has Cilan really lost or struggled with anything?

Cilan may be the main source of comic relief in BW, but at the end of the day, I will treat him as little more than Brock's replacement. Cilan is simply there to make the viewer laugh or smile.

I feel like Cilan is the best utilized character in the show in a long time. For a character with no active goal like Gyms/Contests his role in the actual episodes is played extremely well. You never feel like he's just there or fading away into the background either.

Cilan is treated as a Bishionen, a perfect pretty boy, with no physical or mental flaws, and Crustle as a battler is also badly written.

Crustle needs to lose so it and Cilan can be believable characters. I don't care about Pansage and Stunfisk's record, CRUSTLE MUST LOSE!!