Thread: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

Dent is pretty much Brock but instead of fixating on women, he fixates on everything. He's likeable and not too imposing. Considering Brock is such a old favorite, he's really done a good job replacing him. Yeah, I'd still prefer to have Brock over him, but I'm happy that Dent is almost as likable. His Pokemon are likable and his interactions with the group are good, i.e, he gets on with Iris as much as he does with Ash. So no terrible three way dynamic like DP had with Brock.

Originally Posted by Hellion

Originally Posted by Human

Excuse me for wanting the show to have properly conveyed morals :p

Which this episode did. Work hard, be true to yourself, follow your own path and you'll succeed. But, seeing as you consider the BW089 moral "Don't do shit and be better than everybody around you who work hard and reduce them to hapless dimwits whose sole purpose is to sing your praises" to be properly conveyed...

BW089's moral was to have faith, no matter how blind. Hope... freedom... It was so touching seeing Iris, Satoshi and Hikari taking care of Kairyu. How they endangered their lives for him.. To see them have faith in Kairyu...

I never said or implied that Iris didn't do anything in the Kairyu introduction episode. I said that she actually did enough to balance what the others did.

Said strategy only failed when the scalchop wasn't in Mijumaru's possession due to it being removed with a physical move like Double Kick.

Originally Posted by Hellion

No, not it BW006 when it was knocked out by Bullet Seed, not in BW020 when it was knocked out by Scald. The scalchop has never been portrayed as an infallible strategy. Scalchop isn't magic, it's working about 50/50 percent of the time to begin with, much like dodging.

The Bullet Seed only succeeded because Mijumaru held it on the open with his right hand (letting one of the bullets knock it out), not in the middle of his stomach. He was also getting hit in mid air, making him unable to defend himself with it. In the Pod episode, he was standing on the ground and could have deflected it with his scalchop. Scald knocked it out? Uhh... No it didn't:



He got hit with it another time, but that was when he grabbed his scalchop with his right hand for some odd reason when he could've deflected it again like how he did in the beginning of the episode, but that was for some humour.

Mijumaru's development in BW028(increase in speed) and BW006(Scalchop being used for defence) is completely ignored just so Pod could get a win when he could have gotten the same win countering Mijumaru's power and strategy.

Originally Posted by Hellion

Mijumaru was actually being portrayed as being fast, at least faster than he was in the beginning of this episode, repeatedly attacking Baoppu, in the battle Satoshi was still shown to be able to think on his feet and turn his Pokémon getting hit into an Aqua Jet counterattack. It's not like it's dumb to tell your Pokémon to dodge an attack, it doesn't make Satoshi a bad trainer, a helpless trainer, a weak trainer. The point of the episode was to showcase how far Dent and Pod had come so of course he's gonna win, but we actually saw Pod do wrong, make mistakes, learn from them, work hard, get better and earn that win. That Satoshi didn't order a block and instead ordered a dodge is splitting hairs, it doesn't change that it was a really compelling episode and showcased someone struggling, working for their achievements.

But you yourself say in Iris episode review threads that when characters are downgraded just so something compelling can happen, it loses what it's trying to convey. I may be wrong in what I just said, but that's what you've been strongly implying, so please tell me if I am. Satoshi and his Mijumaru were downgraded here just so Pod could get the win. It's not dumb to tell your Pokemon to dodge, but when they sit there when they have the power to evade the attack... It's just odd and demeaning.

Yeah, but that episode clearly wasn't solely focused on him.

Originally Posted by Hellion

No, it was focusing on Luke and the gang helping him with his movie. Satoshi doesn't have every talent and one of his talents his battling, he feels in his element doing so. But whenever he's outside of that element he's less confidant as shown with the radio show (only when he pictured himself battling did he get over it) and he's occasionally shown to have bad memory. I do remember feeling like it didn't make sense on the spot, but remembering the earlier series, I can't say I feel this episode really had Satoshi completely out of character, but yes, they accentuated parts of his personality in order to give Satoshi an important place in the episode, to make him become better and have his day in the spotlight if you will. It's not like he was totally sidelined, shown to be completely useless and only speak to claim how much Luke and Dent are the salt of the Earth.

Uhh... yeah... O_o I just told you that the episode was not all about Cilan: like in Iris episodes

Yeah, but that episode clearly wasn't solely focused on him.

And you tell me what I already told you that I knew. Satoshi was still downgraded to have stage fright to make Dent look good solving it

Originally Posted by Hellion

Not only that, but if we look at how Dent is generally portrayed, more than half of the time, he's a joke.

I never got such feeling. Dent is generally portrayed to be a calm and knowledgeable person that gets excited over the things he likes doing, sometimes looking funny. For example, in the fishing and scientist sommelier episodes, Dent doesn't look like some funny joke. There are times where he does no wrong like in the Ishizumai episode and Momotchi episode(where Satoshi and Iris wish Dent luck in solving it and they do nothing till Dent tells them to find Momotchi's Tamagetake), with Satoshi and Iris being in the sidelines following his every order. It doesn't make me think that they're his puppets or some crazy to think shit like that for following him and wanting him to do good. Why should I complain with Iris episodes? which also require the help of others It's no big deal.

Originally Posted by Hellion

While in certain areas he's talented, in others he's hopeless.

I never got such feeling. He's multi talented, does some errors, and that's it.

Originally Posted by Hellion

He's been made to lose to make other characters look good, to add tensions to future battles (like Satoshi v Fuuro), etc.

Yeah like with how Iris quickly lost with her Doryuuzu (who made her win the Don Battles) in the Donamite against Masaomi to make him look like a big threat to create a lot tension in his battle against Kenyan. Zuruggu even lasted longer than Doryuuzu againt Masaomi IIRC. She even added tension in Satoshi's battle against Homika with her support. Her win in the Don Battles is even being used to add tension in her battle against Satoshi in the Junior Cup, like with how Dent beat Shooti in the Don Battles. They had their chance to shine in those tournaments and are now being used to make Satoshi and Shooti look good. They do the same thing.

Originally Posted by Hellion

Yes, his focus episodes do show him in a good light (gasp), but also leave some room for other characters to leave their mark.

Yup, just like with Iris episodes(gasp :p), which also leave some room for other characters to leave their mark.

You're telling me here that Iris isn't doing what Dent does when she clearly is. It's extremely odd and confusing....

Time to cool down I think.

Generally:

But, seeing as you consider the BW089 moral "Don't do shit and be better than everybody around you who work hard and reduce them to hapless dimwits whose sole purpose is to sing your praises" to be properly conveyed...

We can debate without putting words into peoples' mouths in such a rude manner and:

Stop lying

Is minimodding by telling someone what to do and making assumptions that people are lying when they could be misremembering.

I suggest you two agree to disagree or moderate what you say better.

I love Cilan!!! He's better than Brock

He is wonderful and glorious and as camp as can be. Endlessly glad that Brock and his perpetual creepiness was abandoned in favour of someone so engaging.

He's arguably the most hilarious character the show's ever had, and definitely fills the hole in the show left by Brock in an unexpected and downright fabulous way.

Even though I love Cilan and I find him to be a very entertaining character, I really wish he got more character development. Being comic relief doesn't mean that you shouldn't get any type of development. Not only does he need development, but his pokemon team does as well.

Cilan is the one character I dread watching, they have made him so unbelievably predictable and tacky already and he's only been in for one Region so far (if they plan to bring him into another, which I doubt, it will be devastating). In the beginning, it's obvious they needed to have a quick thinking tactic in order to replace Brock with something similar, now, obviously that discussion has come up way too many times (that he's a lot like Brock), but actually, he is a REPETITIVE downbeat version of Brock in my opinion. Brock was mature, knew what he wanted, and yes, sometimes, it got annoying that every woman he saw; he love in love with. BUT, I am actually getting sick of every time Ash starts to get the upper hand in a Battle that he and Iris may be watching, it's the same old "FULL OF FLAVOUR, AN ABSOLUTE RAVISHING PERFORMANCE, WITH A SPICE OF..." ect. It has become WAY too repetitive, and let's not forget that the writers must actually be high on sarcastic gas every time they come across something new in the Animé and all of a sudden; CILAN IS A TREE CONNOISSEUR! I never thought they would stoop as low as that with the Animé, but hey, it's just my opinion, wonder if others feel the same?

My opinion so far, he failed to be the compass of Ash in his battle, he just keep saying whats the taste of the battle but failed miserably in pointing out weakness and resistance as well noticing something special from the opponents' Pokemon.

Brock is successful in this role.

I absolutely love Dent. He provides guidance in the Anime. Dent has a wonderful personality and if he had his own Anime I would watch it. He is my favorite to happen to Pokemon in a while. I hope he gets as many seasons in the Anime as Takeshi got.

No I do not like Cilan! He is obnoxious as hell and he's such an exhibitionist. He's so egotistical too. He's also an "expert _____ conossieur" (WTF?) in EVERYTHING. Cilan is a Mary Sue, I swear!

I never liked Cilan anyway. Chili and Cress are so much better.

Honestly? No. I agree with everything the anti-Cilan fans have said. He even makes me miss DP Brock...

Dent is Brock light with a rather lackluster gimmick. Honestly, I think Tracey should have made a glorious comeback this series. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen.

I like Cilan because he is his own character. If people keep comparing him to Brock then of course they won't like him. I like him because he is more involved as far as battling is concerned. I don't give a crap about comedy this and comedy that. There is enough of that in Best Wishes itself to go around. I hope Cilan doesn't stay anymore than one region. I like him but I don't want him to stay too long without anything real to do so that people will start ranting on him like they do with Brock till this day.

I love Cilan to bits. He is such a charming character. I thought Brock was getting on a bit by the time the DP anime came around. I like him and all but Cilan is like an Obsessive compulsive of pretty much every thing in the whole World, scratch that, UNIVERSE. (Plus Cilan reminds me of Tintin. I have know clue why)