Thread: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

Originally Posted by Yoshi-kun

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Misty got another 2 at the beginning of BF, but still only accounts to 4 full episodes total. You can't count the Mastermind as a Misty appearance because May was there too, why don't people count that as a special for May? Is it simply because she was a main character at the time? Even though now she isn't anymore?

Wait a minute? The Mastermind Special doesn't count because May was there? What kind of logic is that? May was there in the other episodes. By that logic Misty never appeared in AG. o.O Better yet May didn't appear in the Wallace Cup. And Dawn isn't here now.

Of course it's not a special for May because she was a main charater at the time. Why the heck would it be? The episode took place during the BF, she was supposed to be there. Just because she's gone now doesn't mean jack for the timeline then.

But my point was since she was there too, it wasn't a special ONLY for Misty. Why May never got any specials in Johto is beyond me, but its far too late to be thinking about that now.

Anyway I think they were desperately trying to fix Misty up in late Johto and AG. Made up for whatever the hell the first two Johto seasons did.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Originally Posted by Yoshi-kun

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Misty got another 2 at the beginning of BF, but still only accounts to 4 full episodes total. You can't count the Mastermind as a Misty appearance because May was there too, why don't people count that as a special for May? Is it simply because she was a main character at the time? Even though now she isn't anymore?

Wait a minute? The Mastermind Special doesn't count because May was there? What kind of logic is that? May was there in the other episodes. By that logic Misty never appeared in AG. o.O Better yet May didn't appear in the Wallace Cup. And Dawn isn't here now.

Of course it's not a special for May because she was a main charater at the time. Why the heck would it be? The episode took place during the BF, she was supposed to be there. Just because she's gone now doesn't mean jack for the timeline then.

But my point was since she was there too, it wasn't a special ONLY for Misty. Why May never got any specials in Johto is beyond me, but its far too late to be thinking about that now.

Anyway I think they were desperately trying to fix Misty up in late Johto and AG. Made up for whatever the hell the first two Johto seasons did.

I never said it was a special ONLY for Misty. It was obviously for the tenth anniversary. You're the one who is trying to claim that she didn't appear in the episode. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

Misty was only in Mastermind because it was a 10th anniversary special. Even ignoring the whole VA change fiasco, the whole special itself was poorly written and felt like bad fanfiction. All we saw Misty do is use her Staryu against a virtual reality Aggron and lose (naturally), and then she just falls off a cliff with Ash forgetting about her till the tail-end, (naturalyl).

What bothered me is how out of character Misty was. Calling Ash, "her rival," when she NEVER called him that in any previous episode, and then trying to play up some grudge between her and May...like WTF? I like to think of Mastermind as non-canon, I wish it never happened.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Misty was only in Mastermind because it was a 10th anniversary special.

That's exactly what I said.

Even ignoring the whole VA change fiasco, the whole special itself was poorly written and felt like bad fanfiction. All we saw Misty do is use her Staryu against a virtual reality Aggron and lose (naturally), and then she just falls off a cliff with Ash forgetting about her till the tail-end, (naturalyl).

What bothered me is how out of character Misty was. Calling Ash, "her rival," when she NEVER called him that in any previous episode, and then trying to play up some grudge between her and May...like WTF? I like to think of Mastermind as non-canon, I wish it never happened.

I'm not a fan of it either. But just because you hate an episode doesn't mean you can say it longer exists. The episode happened, and no amount of wishing is going to change that.

The truth is simple: The episode exists. She appeared. The end.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Misty was only in Mastermind because it was a 10th anniversary special. Even ignoring the whole VA change fiasco, the whole special itself was poorly written and felt like bad fanfiction. All we saw Misty do is use her Staryu against a virtual reality Aggron and lose (naturally), and then she just falls off a cliff with Ash forgetting about her till the tail-end, (naturalyl).

What bothered me is how out of character Misty was. Calling Ash, "her rival," when she NEVER called him that in any previous episode, and then trying to play up some grudge between her and May...like WTF? I like to think of Mastermind as non-canon, I wish it never happened.

I actually feel the same way about that special in regards to being a poorly written and bad fanficition. It didn't even feel like a tenth anniversary special, especially with the lack of interactions between the characters. Brock was barely in it and few Pokemon were actually used. The rival comment, as well as the way she treated May, was pretty out of character and really strange.

Anyway, to make this a bit more on-topic, while I really didn't like the Mastermind special and I tend to ignore its existence, I would say that it still counts as an appearance for Misty, regardless if one considers it canon or not. It isn't a full special like the ones she got after she left the case, but she still appeared in it, so that does count for something.

Its why I consider AG134 Misty's last appearance in the show, the Mastermind special just felt like some off-the-wall knock off to me, almost like Pokemon Live. But I understand others consider it canon.

I find it odd Misty's cameos weren't about battling either.

Originally Posted by Yoshi-kun

Probably they just never should have come up with Type Master as a goal or used it again, and just given her them something else (item collecting) to do. >>;

Becoming one type master is quite viable goal being already showed with E4 members which are labeled as masters what this truly means. With Misty since water is most common and incredibly diverse pokemon type out there unlike its case with Iris and Dragons(one of rarest types out there), it was possible to create chain of competitions serving as benchmarks through which character will grow forward. For same reason Whirl Cup was created which was great start, explaining more on concept of water masters revealing one piece of puzzle in what is required to become this. But alas since it happened too late before Misty exist it wasn't to expect follow up being made. Thanks to variety of water types, inclusion of rivals and workable development was possible to do without entering gyms like Ash does, but since writers were inexperienced not knowing how to handle things properly back than, along with added mr. Shudo lack of interest this didn't happened being wasted on Johto fillers instead.

If by some miracle Misty ever returns to cast, im sure they would create story arc through which character could logically improve providing justification behind existence.

Originally Posted by Catalepsy

The anime doesn't follow every aspect of the game. Maybe she will appear, maybe not. My speculations goes towards no.

So if she isn't in games she shouldn't return because she doesn't promote them, and when she is in games having bigger marketing value she again shouldn't return because there is "no need to". Gotta love circular logic.

Now if you don't want that she returns i respect that, but im supporting fully her return and my opinion wont change. Out of all girls i also found her to be more interesting having great development when she matured and conquered her fears getting out of sisters shadows. But i guess some people don't like change, with people complaining when Ash matured too, or when May stopped being so ditzy growing to like pokemon.

Matter of opinion i guess.

I'm pretty sure the writers have better things on their mind than bringing back an old character out of nowhere that has nothing to do with the main plot atm. Of course they made mistakes. There's always things the writers could do better, but it's been so long, everyone might as well just drop the whole issue and move on.

That's irrelevant because she can always become important to main plot again directly incorporating her own story into it. Like they did with Dawn return in BW tying her desire to work on her coordinator skills in Junior Cup tournament helping to advance current story.

Purpose behind return would be to add more chemistry to cast, develop more character, advance current story, bring more continuity into pokemon helping new kids to better understand past and random returns of older pokemon and flashbacks in Ash case, to please older fans bringing boost in ratings etc.

Incentive behind older character exists, its only up to writers if they want to capitalize on that or not.

Misty had an appearance in AG, and that's all. What makes people believe that she's still going to return as a main character. If the writers truly believed she was any importance to the show at this point, I'm sure they would have at least gave her cameos throughout the years. Even characters like May only got one appearance during the next series after they left. It shouldn't be any different from the other girls.

This isn't competition. Just because Misty appeared once doesn't mean she should never return again, with same applying to other characters too. Yes because she was first being planned originally that she stays in anime forever of course that she was in more episodes and appeared more than May did at this point, and when she returns again being followed up with May possible return afterwards she will still be leading. But why does this even matter so much? This isn't competition nor it should be treated as such.

May got more development and focus with more being done about her goal, but i don't complain how its "unfair". Ash,TR, Brock etc were in far more episodes and they will continue to appear(yes that includes Brock return at some point too), but no one complains how its unfair.

If people like some character wanting that she returns and gets more development that's completely understandable, especially when taking in account how character was absent for 6 years and counting being to expect that people are frustrated with their favorite being treated like garbage never to be seen again.

Whats the point of past characters and their adding to anime in first place if all impact they left on Ash growth and anime story, all development they received and things they did are going to end up erased like they never existed or mattered in first place? Such approach destroys continuity and make existence of past series and characters pointless damaging anime story and its reputation.

As for demand for Misty return, it only shows how popular and liked she really is with many finding her removal to be mistake. Sometimes it gives out impression she was more popular than May or Dawn outside of Japan judging by poll results , comments and all that dust she always lifts up.

Gary was Ash's first rival. I'd say, even though he had WAY less screentime than Misty, that his importance to the show was bigger than Misty's, who was just a basically a traveler partner for Ash. She had a goal, yet she never got enough screentime shown doing much with it.
Screentime =/= Importance. Ash was destined to become a better trainer than Gary. One of his main goals was to beat him. Ash is the main character, so I'd say somebody he was working on beating is pretty important.
Brock wasn't much importance to the actual anime, yet he got loads of screentime. The writers took forever to rid of him.

Are you serious? Rival which appeared for few episodes over course of whole OS, barely developed and influenced Ash story is all of sudden more important than ex main protagonist was?

Misty was Ash coach and mentor helping him to grow as trainer along with Brock, she several times influenced plot unlike Gary did saving people lives, helping to resolve problems and clues to allow Ash to earn right to challenge gym leaders(like she did with Blaine), gave him tips and helped to come up with battle strategy, helped group to get out of danger several times(like on st. Anne ship, when they were lost on several occasions in Johto, when Tentacruel was about to destroy whole town, when Ash got arrested) , gave moral support and encouragement to Ash, had small rivalry with him serving as push to try harder, had her own story of becoming water pokemon master, battled incomparably more, received actual development, gave us insight in her backstory.

She was far more important to anime than Gary ever was, and when he stopped being rival turning to career of being researcher his role and importance to Ash life ended, yet writers had no problems in bringing him back again.

Misty got her appearance, yet fans still aren't satisfied for whatever reason.

And any character fan shouldn't be satisfied with their favorite character ending up forgotten never to be seen again. Also you can't really compare this two characters. May was more fleshed out, got more development and decent closure. With Misty there wasn't done nearly enough, she wasn't used to full potential with her exit leaving things on sore note. Of course that her fans are going to be less satisfied.

And yes, majority of May fans want to see her again. They just aren't so vocal about it like Misty fans are. Most character fans want to see their favorites again, your in minority really.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Misty's appearances in AG were to give her the character development she didn't get in Johto. They got rid of Togepi, showed her as a Gym leader, gave her a Gyarados and she bonded with Max...that's about all they needed to do with her.

Those were all good things, but they didn't do anything with main plots of Misty story in any way or provided indication that further progress is being made toward them(like goal of becoming one type master,ambition to learn as much as she can about water types,what motivated her in deciding to become one type trainer etc)never coming to any significant realization how to accomplish her dreams nor getting over flaws which are standing in way of character going forward with things being left at standstill and undefined.

Gym was used as nothing more than excuse to have her out,with writers leaving everything uncleared. She never gave up on her original dream with writers making clear how she is running gym out of necessity not setting up what are character future plans and in what direction she will go. And on good part i believe reason for that is to have window through which they could easily return Misty back to cast in case contests and May end up as fiasco(like Tracey did), purposely leaving things open about her later on forgetting to tie them up.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

But my point was since she was there too, it wasn't a special ONLY for Misty. Why May never got any specials in Johto is beyond me, but its far too late to be thinking about that now.

Well Misty got 4 episodes in hosos too and had much more references after departure than May did, so its not incorrect to say how she appeared more. Writers acknowledged her existence far more than they did for any other traveling companion until Dawn in BW. That's for sure.

Anyway I think they were desperately trying to fix Misty up in late Johto and AG. Made up for whatever the hell the first two Johto seasons did.

Whirl Islands didn't happen in late Johto, and Misty didn't need fixing up as character. Only her story needed it. However she had some great moments in first two Johto seasons too; like Seaking competition, "Joy of water pokemon" bursting in tears when nurse Joy didn't wanted to examine her water pokemon crushing childhood dream, "For Crying Out Loud"where she had some great development bonding with Marill. She provided humor in several episodes having many memorable moments, like taking care of Brock and his pokemon in "Sick Daze"trying to cook which ended as disaster, went to save Togepi, Pikachu and Sentret from giant TR Arbok tank, formed friendship with Sakura helping her to deal with problem with older siblings, had some nice interactions with Brock like in "Heartbreak of Brock"having private talk and criticizing him about girls, had great interactions with James and Meowth in "Forrest Grumps"when group got separated because of Ursaring, tried to defend Teddiursa thief falling for its evil charm being borderline bitchy there, went crazy when she found out she is Gyarados in horoscope battling TR herself in "Fortune Hunters"etc, etc.

Misty needed more screen time and development, but when she got chance to shine she made episodes truly hilarious and amusing to watch in general providing good interaction. Or people already forgot about all those episodes?

Ill say it again Misty had ton of personality in Johto and anyone who tries to deny it should watch Johto again because he couldn't be more WRONG.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Misty was only in Mastermind because it was a 10th anniversary special. Even ignoring the whole VA change fiasco, the whole special itself was poorly written and felt like bad fanfiction. All we saw Misty do is use her Staryu against a virtual reality Aggron and lose (naturally), and then she just falls off a cliff with Ash forgetting about her till the tail-end, (naturalyl).

I thought Mastermind special was rather great. Misty interacted great with Ash and co, we saw her battle dr. Yung, enter castle with Ash trying to save prof. Oak, we saw some nice bondage between her and May when she saved her life strengthening their friendship. She tried to stop dr. Doom with Gyarados along with others. Seriously what more did you expected from her?
She got more of focus there than May, Max and Brock did, that's for sure.

I liked whole idea of virtual pokemon being used trying to make them invincible and it was nice twist to see dr. Yung turning to be main villain which is on edge of insanity, and sacrifice of Mew himself was touching and sad ending, regardless of being computer data.

What bothered me is how out of character Misty was. Calling Ash, "her rival," when she NEVER called him that in any previous episode, and then trying to play up some grudge between her and May...like WTF? I like to think of Mastermind as non-canon, I wish it never happened.

I really don't understand what made you think she was out of character?
She playfully teased Ash and Brock, she joked with them showing of. Something she did in Hoenn cameos when meeting up with group and numerous times in original series. She called Ash rival, because they always had small rivalry between themselves back in day arguing trying to prove how other side is wrong, having competitive fire between themselves when battling with stakes usually being high. Such as for gym badge, Togepi, Totodile, Whirl Cup etc.

Misty was completely within character there. If someone wasn't it was May which after all development was portrayed as insecure girl which doesn't have any faith in herself with her statement "see, i can sometimes do right thing too"portraying her as inferior character to others. Now abut this i was definitely bothered, but being sarcastic and joking was always one of main things Misty was known for.

Or did people forgot that she had some sort of rivalry with Ash in OS, liking to tease others often?

For topic itself i have to say Misty was one of rare characters in pokemon which managed to stay equally interesting after development with fandom receiving it mostly positive if opinions about her growth in second half of run and afterwards in AG were anything to go by.

The Master Mind of Mirage was Misty's LAST appearance, not Cleffa Hanger! I was glad she received more focus than May & Max did, and at least the Misty/May interactions improved.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

But I understand others consider it canon.

It's not something you could choose, canon is canon.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

What bothered me is how out of character Misty was. Calling Ash, "her rival," when she NEVER called him that in any previous episode, and then trying to play up some grudge between her and May...like WTF? I like to think of Mastermind as non-canon, I wish it never happened.

Grudge between Misty, and May? I must have missed that.

I liked her well enough in the beginning then she just bored me and towards the end I was actually hoping she would leave or we get a new cast altogether.

Misty's role was great. But, unfortunately she lasted like 2.5 regions. In Johto, you didn't see the red-head dyke, you see Michael Jackson-esque nice girl... :o

No, not really.

In Johto she bored the hell out of me and I was happy when she went back to the gym to actually do her job.

In Kanto she was just plain rude and hardly did anything important in the show.

She still remains one of my favorate female traveling companions, mostly for the nostagia and the fact that she was introduced first. :) I also like her personality in the Kanto, Orange Island and Johto Series.

Misty is great. I really love her character, the way she was written, etc. I felt Ash and her had great chemistry, both as friends, as mutual inspiration for one another, and, occasionally, as rivals. When she left, it was heart breaking as a kid.

While it is easy to compare her to May and Dawn, at the same time, it's kinda unfair to the characters. Both May and Dawn had definitive arcs that both characters underwent, with definite ends in sight. Misty's story felt sorta...incomplete. Like, when she left, it felt like a lot was left unsaid. A few others have pointed that out on this thread before, but I think one of the huge reason Misty fans felt cheated when she left was because it felt like her story hadn't ended yet. It felt abrupt and unwarranted, which, in a lot of ways, is an injustice to the character.

Even though she hasn't appeared in seasons, I'd personally love it if the writers could throw Misty into BW, if only for a little bit. :(