Thread: Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show?

Originally Posted by Seto Kaiba

I Seto Kaiba shall sum up this 'Dawn character'. 10 year old girl with blue hair, wore a 'short' skimpy skirt and had 'happy feet' as her companion in the series.

Well, basically that was her role. In my opinion.

hahaha, agreed entirely. I certainly didn't like Dawn's role on the show!!!

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

At the beginning I liked the idea of a female character getting lots of screentime, but after the novelty wore off her basically being a female/contest version of Ash and her "action-ish" qualities started to get dull.

She had some moments in the series I really liked, but her lackluster character interaction dulled her for me. She and Brock had ZERO chemistry which essentially ruined the entire DP trio, and her interactions with Zoey and Kenny (and Nando) put me to sleep. Her team was fine overall, even though Togekiss was worthless and Piplup got too much screentime.

We're now 1 year after Dawn departed and I don't really have much of an itch to see her show up anytime soon. Even her special was pretty lackluster and didn't give me the interest of seeing her traveling in Hoenn. Overall I can probably say I enjoyed her more than I didn't, but I feel like her character could have been much better. She was a character who started off promising but her story peaked way too early on and I feel like she was more or less casted aside after the Wallace Cup ended.

I really can't accept your criticism. Dawn was by far the best femal companion Ash ever had. Compared to Misty she was much more competent and not annoying at all. May was an average and rather bland character, so Dawn was definitely better than her. And finally, look what we have now: Iris who stands absolutely no comparison to Dawn!

I for one am a huge fan of Dawn. She was a clever and skilled girl and had great character development throughout the show. Take, for example, her period of depression after two consecutive losses in contests. Or her constant fear that she might not live up to her mother's expectations. Also, she came up with awesome combinations for her contests and showed affection and talent when dealing with her Pokemon (case in point: Mamoswine). I hardly remember seeing such things from Ash's other female companions on a regular basis.

Dawn definitely enriched the Anime, and I'd be overjoyed if she returned (if only for a short cameo)

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

I really can't accept your criticism. Dawn was by far the best femal companion Ash ever had. Compared to Misty she was much more competent and not annoying at all. May was an average and rather bland character, so Dawn was definitely better than her. And finally, look what we have now: Iris who stands absolutely no comparison to Dawn!

I for one am a huge fan of Dawn. She was a clever and skilled girl and had great character development throughout the show. Take, for example, her period of depression after two consecutive losses in contests. Or her constant fear that she might not live up to her mother's expectations. Also, she came up with awesome combinations for her contests and showed affection and talent when dealing with her Pokemon (case in point: Mamoswine). I hardly remember seeing such things from Ash's other female companions on a regular basis.

Dawn definitely enriched the Anime, and I'd be overjoyed if she returned (if only for a short cameo)

I won't disagree as I can understand why Dawn would be some people's favorite, but overall what exactly was her personality in most episodes? It basically revolved around either Contests, training/Pokemon or her girliness/ fashion oriented persona.

Take away her character design and the promotion the writers gave her with songs and fanservice moments, and she really was just a female version of Ash with a love for Contests and fashion. Did her personality change or grow throughout DP? Did she have many memorable interactions with characters other than Ash, Conway or maybe Barry? Did her rivalries give any reason to care if Dawn triumphed over them? Did her team really go through much development now looking back on it with two last minute Pokemon and three that remained the same for 180 eps?

Overall I liked Dawn for the most part, but she was overrated at some points simply because of heavy promotion. Getting tons of screentime doesn't automatically make a character better than those in supporting sidekick roles.

Dawn's role was pretty much Ash's, with Piplup out, her strength and the competition. She was fine. I just think they over did it with Piplup a bit. But yet again they over did it with Togepi too. But this isn't about them. The reason Dawn's role was important to me was her willing to not give up and of course her being in Contests. I don't care if she was a battler or Coordinator. There was a lot that she was willing to learn and I liked that.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

I won't disagree as I can understand why Dawn would be some people's favorite,

I guess I know exactly which piece of clothing you're thinking of ;) But let me assure you, I would have liked Dawn just as much as I do now even if she had worn a longer skirt ;) It has absolutely nothing to do with that nor with my new signature! I'm really not that superficial. The only thing you could blame me for is that, among other reasons, I like her because she and Cynthia have the same VA.

but overall what exactly was her personality in most episodes? It basically revolved around either Contests, training/Pokemon or her girliness/ fashion oriented persona.

Take away her character design and the promotion the writers gave her with songs and fanservice moments, and she really was just a female version of Ash with a love for Contests and fashion.

If you apply the same logic to, say, Brock (or any other character), what's left of him then? Ash's life basically exclusively revolves around Pokemon battles. What's so bad about it? Does it keep us from watching the Anime week after week?

Did her personality change or grow throughout DP?

Don't get me wrong but you must either be joking or you were apparently watching a totally different show. Dawn's development from a rather inexperienced beginner who had to suffer setbacks again and again to a skilled and self-confident finalist of the Grand Festival was a prime example of character development and personal growth.

Did she have many memorable interactions with characters other than Ash, Conway or maybe Barry?

What about her great interactions wih Zoey? I guess not even those dialoges between May and Drew came close to them in terms of maturity and significance.

Did her rivalries give any reason to care if Dawn triumphed over them?

You might be right when it comes to Kenny, but I cared when she beat Ursula or Jessilina, for example. Weren't these great victories?
Which one of May's rivals was more exciting except for Drew maybe? And let's not forget Misty didn't even have a real rival.

Did her team really go through much development now looking back on it with two last minute Pokemon and three that remained the same for 180 eps?

Again, was Misty or May any better? I was totally fine with how they handled Dawn's Pokemon by giving them plenty of attention and development (not counting Ash's team, of course)

Overall I liked Dawn for the most part, but she was overrated at some points simply because of heavy promotion. Getting tons of screentime doesn't automatically make a character better than those in supporting sidekick roles.

But getting a lot of screentime doesn't automatically mean that her character is overrated, either. And, quite frankly, being (a bit) overrated is still better than almost completely falling into oblivion like Tracey, for instance.
Since the start of B/W people (including me) have rightly been complaining about how pointless Iris' appearance is. But if, on the other hand, a character like Dawn gets massive screentime and development, people still seem to be complaining. I can't get my head around that.

I've already said it several times and I'll emphasize it again: Dawn was the first female companion of Ash's to be taken seriously and to truly develop her full potential. I honestly miss her.

Yeah I liked her role. But I think some people had a point about her clothes. I would have liked it if she would have kept her pink coat outfit on for half of the series. That way it would have made me more interested. I don't care.

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

I
If you apply the same logic to, say, Brock (or any other character), what's left of him then? Ash's life basically exclusively revolves around Pokemon battles. What's so bad about it? Does it keep us from watching the Anime week after week?

All the characters have personalities unrelated to what their goal is. While you can say Dawn did as well, the bulk of what she would talk about on ep to ep was just about Contests or Pokemon.

on't get me wrong but you must either be joking or you were apparently watching a totally different show. Dawn's development from a rather inexperienced beginner who had to suffer setbacks agVain and again to a skilled and self-confident finalist of the Grand Festival was a prime example of character development and personal growth.

Dawn's personality didn't change. She acts exactly the same in her last ep as she did in her first ep. What changed is her skill in Contests, not the character herself. Do you know character development means a character changes or grows?

What about her great interactions wih Zoey? I guess not even those dialoges between May and Drew came close to them in terms of maturity and significance.

What great interactions were those? All Zoey did was basically enforce the Aipom/Buiz trade and tell Dawn how to do appeals. Their rivalry had no reason to get excited about it whatsoever. Zoey and Dawn had no drive to fight for anything. And now that we know Zoey never lost she seems like a borderline Mary Sue because every person listened to every word she said. And lastly, Zoey was dull.

ou might be right when it comes to Kenny, but I cared when she beat Ursula or Jessilina, for example. Weren't these great victories?
Which one of May's rivals was more exciting except for Drew maybe? And let's not forget Misty didn't even have a real rival.

Wow, you actually cared about a boring one sided rivalry with Zoey that Dawn would never win? A rivalry against Ursula where Ursula would never win? Jessie was beaten in a 1 minute battle and Nando never battled Dawn in a Contest. Dawn's rivals were all handled poorly and it shows. Not a single one of them felt like Dawn was gearing up to beat them in some huge victory.

was Misty or May any better? I was totally fine with how they handled Dawn's Pokemon by giving them plenty of attention and development (not counting Ash's team, of course)

Dawn's Pokemon other than Piplup did not get much screentime. Cyndaquil barely fix anything outside of 1 contest, Togekiss was idioticly late, Ambipom gets released and Buneary and Pachi don't change at all

But getting a lot of screentime doesn't automatically mean that her character is overrated, either. And, quite frankly, being (a bit) overrated is still better than almost completely falling into oblivion like Tracey, for instance.
Since the start of B/W people (including me) have rightly been complaining about how pointless Iris' appearance is. But if, on the other hand, a character like Dawn gets massive screentime and development, people still seem to be complaining. I can't get my head around that.

I've already said it several times and I'll emphasize it again: Dawn was the first female companion of Ash's to be taken seriously and to truly develop her full potential. I honestly miss her.

And yet with all that screentime she had the worst character interaction of the entire main cast. If it weren't for her good friendship with Ash, I would have considered the DP trio totally forgettable.

Dawn's personality didn't develop much, what developed was her skills as a Coordinator.

In my opinion, Dawn is the worst female companion ever - maybe even the worst compaion overall.
I never felt like she had something which could get my attention, more than making me hate her, that is. She only bored me to tears, and I never felt any kind of development when it comes to her personality. Yes I know, she went through some hardships and had to struggle to make it through, but her those struggles only improved her skills as a Coordinator, and never brought any development for her personality, IMO.

At the beginning of DP, I absolutely loved Dawn, but that's only natural, because I always enjoy new characters at first. She felt fresh, new and interesting, and I loved her personality, but I noticed that only after several epiosdes that she suddenly disappeared. Her personality didn't stick out, it got bland extremely fast, and I pretty much forgot about her. She had gotten boring, and it only went downhill. After a while I started to hate her, and the episodes that mainly focused on her usually bored me to death, I was waiting for the episodes to end, or rather, I was praying for the episodes to end.
It's true that her so called development is rather unique with those consecutive losses, but the writers failed to make me interested in that, since the person who had those losses was way too bland and boring to actually make me care for her, and make me feel sad for her, so I actually never gave a //// about that, which is quite unfortunate, since I didn't want to feel that way towards a character with potential.

So yeah; I do not like Dawn, I actually hate her, and I'm hoping to never see her in series again. I sincerely hope that the last cameo episode we saw of her was the end of her character.

Keep in mind that I actually like Dawn, although I am not a huge fan. She definitely had many memorable moments in the show and I liked how the writers tried interesting twists with her:

- Failing the appeal round twice in a row
- Challenging a Gym leader
- Challenging Lucian (even though Buizel wanted to, not Dawn herself)
- Being more engaged in battling than the other 3 girls

The way I see it, Dawn started off like she was going to be the best character ever, but somewhere after halfway in her character dulled and all the interesting aspects of her personality started wearing off. I don't know if it was because her character quirks were getting old at that point or it felt like her personality outside of Contests wasn't developing.

That and her rivals were so damn boring that I couldn't take the way the writers rehashed Zoey and Kenny in all those early DP contests until Ursula arrived.

Overall I liked her in general, but I am disappointed in what she didn't become.

She was alright and had potntial. She just didn't live up to it.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Dawn's personality didn't develop much, what developed was her skills as a Coordinator.

As this is basically your main argument, let me focus on that:
You're criticizing that Dawn's personality didn't develop, so tell me if there has been any character since the very first episode whose personality underwent significant development?

Misty - She always, repeat, always stayed the same. Besides not growing as a tainer, she got zero character development and now that we have Iris, I'm shocked how many similarities there are between both girls. Both are accompanying Ash for whatever reason, constantly repeating their catch phrases in an almost robotic way: " I wanna be a Water Pokemon/ Dragon Master"

Tracey- Well, I guess there's no need to comment on his poor character "development".

May - Although I liked her, she more or less stayed an average, run-of-the-mill character without any outstanding features.

Max - Annoying and superfluous. It was only once during his time in the Anime that his personality was highlighted, namely in "Do I hear a Ralts?"

Now we've only got two potential candiates left: Brock and Ash.
While Brock has always been the most matures companion of Ash's, he didn't undergo a major personal development, either. Sure, he got plenty of great episode featuring his personality, but has it really developed over time? After traveling around for such a long time, he even changed his goal in his very last episode. If you ask me, that's not a sign of consistent development.

And last but not least, there's Ash: It's highly debatable whether or not his personality has developed over the years. It might be true that he grows as a person within a saga, especially during his rivalry with Paul, but given the fact that his character gets reset EVERY time he starts out on a new journey, I dare say that he's even the worst example in terms of character development.

Now I hope you can see that no other main character underwent a personal development that's worth mentioning. What I wanted to show you is that it's therefore unfair and somewhat biased to only criticize Dawn for allegedly not getting any development although all the other characters in the show weren't any better, either.
And last but not least, let's bear in mind that Pokemon is simply not that kind of show that focuses on highly psychological issues. That's as if you expected a show for, say, housewives to tell you how to fix a car. So, why are you expecting the writers to come up with complex background stories when in fact, Pokemon is ALL about battles and contests?
And because it's the show's goal to mainly feature battles, I don't understand why you blame Dawn for just concentrating on said contest battles. In fact, Dawn was the most consistent character in this regard because she stayed true to the show's main theme. After the terribly incompetent Misty and the rather lackluster May, it was about time that we got a female character who's Ash equal.

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

After the terribly incompetent Misty and the rather lackluster May, it was about time that we got a female character who's Ash equal.

A character doesn't have to be Ash's equal to be a good character. Even if we were to "pretend" that Brock, Misty, May, Cilan, etc. were Ash's equal in screentime it still wouldn't change how I feel about them.

But now you've ignored my main argument. I was not talking about screentime but about how much personality development other charcters got compared to Dawn.

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

But now you've ignored my main argument. I was not talking about screentime but about how much personality development other charcters got compared to Dawn.

Other than Tracey and Max, (who were purposely minor characters to begin with), and before Brock became background in DP, all the other characters did change quite a bit over the course of their runs.

But we're only talking about Dawn here, in which you can watch random eps of DP in ANY order....and Dawn is pretty much exactly the same in all of them. The problem with her rivalries is they did nothing to enchance her personality either:

- Zoey mentored Dawn, and Dawn listened to every word she said. Therefore nothing changed. The Ash/Paul rivalry completely overshadowed the Dawn/Zoey one, and by the time we got to the Grand Festival Zoey basically became that "boring invincible rival" that people dislike for similar reasons Tobias, Richie, etc. are disliked.

- Kenny is beaten in his very first appearance by Dawn, and then more or less fades away into oblivion. By the end of DP most of us were left wondering why Kenny was ever created. Aside from the "Pikari/Dee Dee" nickname, this rivalry was awful.

- Nando...does he even count? Dawn never battled him in a Contest, and he never really felt like a rival to her. He was Zoey's rival more than Dawn's. He also only ever appeared in 3 eps prior to the leagues.

- Ursula had the potential to be the best, but she was introduced extremely late, she was only ever in 5 episodes, and we had to watch Dawn beat her 3 times in a row. If Ursula was introduced at DP's start, I figure the Dawn/Ursula rivalry would have been one of the series best.

- Jessie started off as a much more competent rival, but what do the writers do? Her battle in the GF against Dawn is given 1 minute of screentime where she's knocked out with little effort. Essentially making the whole aspect of Jessie being more of a threat to be pointless.


By the time Dawn was leaving the show, yes she became a very strong coordinator, but also relatively unchanged...with underwhelming rivalries that went nowhere and will probably wind up being forgotten. Her pokemon team which had the potential to be the best, wound up falling apart by the end. Were Cyndaquil and Togekiss really needed that late, really? Did Ambipom have to be released for the stupidest reason?

Personally while i agree how Dawn didnt went through much personality growth,claiming how she didnt changed at all would be rather exaggerating to say in slightest.We saw her starting out as overconfident character who thought how she already knows everything whats needed to become successful coordinator,just to start eventually to realize what are her mistakes becoming more humble not being anymore so much full of herself.She also became more of realist becoming more self-critic along with gaining bigger confidence after she proved her worth to mother and Zoey becoming more experienced and skilled as coordinator.

She had huge pressure on her back having as mother winner of Sinnoh GF who was excellent top coordinator,she had to constantly prove herself to others,her rivals(like Zoey,Kenny etc)with expectation being high.After several loses,failure at appeal round,criticism and judgement from others this brought Dawn character to state of depression not being anymore sure how to get out of hole she fell into.

As time went on character managed to restore confidence back,becoming more humble not being anymore so much full of herself.She She became more of realist being more self-critic along with gaining bigger confidence after she proved her worth to mother and rivals.We also cant ignore how Zoey left huge influence on Dawn character helping her to grow stronger s coordinator,understanding how to deal with pokemon problems(like disobedient Mamoswine) along with creating her own style as coordinator becoming more experienced,down to earth person.

I think main reason why people dont manage to see at first glance some changes which happened with character is because by end of her run Dawn was still that girly,happy go lucky and optimistic character which was introduced back at start of DP not going through some more notable change.Afterall going from overly confident to less confident is not much.

However crisis through which Dawn went,lose of confidence etc did left mark on character changing a bit compared to starting days.Not much,but some difference can be noticed.

Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia

As this is basically your main argument, let me focus on that:
You're criticizing that Dawn's personality didn't develop, so tell me if there has been any character since the very first episode whose personality underwent significant development?

Minus Max and Tracey all of them developed.
Not to full potential,but you could tell they changed.

Misty became over time more mature and level headed compared to Kanto days,she developed confidence getting over complex of feeling less worthy compared to older sisters and improved skills as trainer.
May started out as girl who didnt liked pokemon just wanting to travel,later on learning to like them realizing what she wants to do with life growing into more mature and selfconfident character.
While Brock during time he traveled with Ash transformed from at times impulsive guy which had to take care of younger siblings wanting to get away from that kind of struggle in more wise and full of understanding person coming to realization what he wants to do with life viewing doctor calling as step up from breeder career.

I agree with you how Dawn went through some growth and had good contest arc and story,but there is no denying how other companions went through development which in my opinion was more significant and impacting.