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Thread: Brock/Takeshi as a companion

  1. #16
    Call me Robert guys 1rkhachatryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brock/Takeshi as a companion

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    To 1rkhachatryan : I wouldn't say that writers gave up on Brock at least not in OS and Hoenn generation. He was always treated like supporting character older care taker who looks after Ash and others while filing them with valuable knowledge and wisdom he posessed as most mature and knowledgeable member of cast.

    In OS he played important role in preparing Ash for pokemon league, gym leaders and how to master basics such as fundamentals of type advantage, what kind of strategy he should use with certain pokemon and way he shiould approach in training pokemon. He provided along with Misty moral support being like his guardian which make sure that Ash doesnt run mindlessly in trouble or battle he cant win(althoiugh with shaky results given Ash stubborn nature back than)while taking care of pokemon, cooking, being navigator and had msany memorable moments. Dealing with his desire to find soul mate which could understand him mand support through life, often probiding solutions to problems such as plan how to stop TR ARbok tank from rampaging around, helping Ash Totodile in courting Azumarill and how to win her heart, served as intermediator in Ash capturing pokemon like Chgarmander etc.and had several memkorable moments where he polayed important role.

    While learning new things as breeder and demoinstrating his iwn knowledge when exchanging experiences with AJ, Suzie with who he builded strong, mutually admiring friendship, girls like Florina which had confidence issues teaching her how to be more confident, showing to be very smart and resouzrceful when offering help how to fix destroyed equipment and install program which locates lost objects by using Golbat sonar in episode where it evolved etc. Along with impeccable and spontaneous dynamic he shared with Misty and Ash made of arguing and embarassment engaging in clash over his flirty nature and irrational behabior when girls or particular pokemon are in question, laughs and joking when talking about dreams and various interests like romance, cooking, personal fears looking in consolidation in his friends. Along with care, mutual understanding and inspiration often serving as intermediator in settling down conflict between other two, kept them from rushing recklessly in problems and defended them when their trainer abilities or worth was questioned by others.

    Same applies to Brock in AG saga finding myself to enjoy alot in his performance there. Brock was less of a coach and mentor to Ash who matured enough to be more selfreliant, although he still helped him to train pokemon, gave him tips and advices how to improve his strategy when battling gym leaders or Frontier brains .Like in preparing strategy for Ash when he lost to Brawly, against Winona, in suggesting him which attacks to use against Flannery or warning him about strategy and special abilities certain pokemon use of who Ash wasn't aware of (such as hidden power, overgrowth etc).

    But instead of diminishing, Brock role was still noticeable in that saga feeling like in return writers put more emphasis on development of Brock and his pokemon in their own light, and expanding more on all that more wished for background and from here he originated as noticed in more focus being dedicated to his unconventional family, cognition how and in what way Brock received his first pokemon(revealing to be Onix as present), while having endearing bonding with brother Forest.

    I also enjoyed how he helped May and Max about learning things , various strategies and attacks from pokemon they weren't aware of explaining why Max viewed him as some sort of older "role model".

    If anything addition of Max helped his character by having someone to who he could relate to and his breeding career got some notable focus too often helping to resolve alarming situations regarding wild or endured pokemon, took care of suck characters like nurse Joy etc.
    Likewise he was more active than i can say for Johto at least in battle abilities and moments whgere he could demonstrate all that knowledge and experience as firmer Pewter gym leader too having some notable moments like battling May in contest, battling TR with Ash in tag match to save Pewter gym, learn about new ways to prepare food and keep pokemon in top shape(like pokeblocks etc).

    Making me impressed with nurturing care and understanding expressed when feeding and comforting Bonsly, saving Mudkip and earning its thrust to join him, or played role in resolving Lotad, Lombre love issues feeling like he is getting somewhere collecting new knowledge and methods about breeding and taking care of your pokemon. We can see that in learning to prepared new sort of food pokeblocks, in showing great deal of knowledge when treating sick or poisoned pokemon like Sharpedo, Nuzleef, Bagon, in understanding relationship between pokemon in love like Donphan or Flaffy and Ampharos, crisis about lack of water and how to approach wild pokemon like Solrock ending recognized as respectable and knowledgeable breeder by several renowned members of this branch.

    Such as Yuma, Jaco, Isis, Zane etc.
    While still being caretaker, navigator and most mature person in cast bringing order and settling down conflict between characters.

    I guess reason why Brock role for what it used to be didn't bothered me as much was because i viewed him as parental figure of group, he was never expected to receive huge fleshed out story arcs like Dawn, Ash etc has. Even in OS when Misty was around she always got more focus and development overall than Brock did. And i believe reason why Brock rarely battled or participated in some sort of action can be applied on great amount to passive dream writer established around Brock character. Since with breeding as whole there's little you can do with it, when it doesn't involve battling and entering competitions.
    Where writers have easier time in creating something for character, having several ways to make him more proactive(like inclusion of rivals,competitions,training episodes etc).
    Hence why its much easier to write for coordinators and trainers.

    Regardless of this handicap his development and focus came from individual episodes receiving changes in pokemon team and his skills gradually . Along with taking care of cast and cooking, navigating their way to towns and next gyms or area where contests are going to be held, giving logistic support and advices to Ash and May bringing everything on hold as most mature person in cast.

    His real shaft happened in Sinnoh, and even than i wouldn't necessarily say how he was worthless . Simply neglected and oushed aside preventing him from being more involved in action, utilize his own knowledge and skills in various situations and get more spotlight where he could truly shine(fact that Brock himself commented in one of DP movies how he feels left behind only adds to that bordering with breaking fourth wall, which while for comedy purposes still ironically contained truth). Though if there was one thing which in my opinion Sinnoh did right to Brock character was in serving as stepping stone to his eventual character developmernt . In vein of fleshing out Brock's character more in aspect of his own breeder and caretaking skills being given pokemon egg to display his true knowledge raising it to healthy and powerful Chansey along with starting to show interest for doctor calling more excessively. Which eventually led to self doubt and insecurity of what he truly wants to do realizing gradually how as doctor he will be able to be of bigger help for pokemon .

    Though it was obvious that big shaft was unfortunately present showing signs of detriment to character there, due to stagnation and limited screen time to display his qualities as he normally would.


    I believe because of security and care taking role ,he managed to add certain stability to main cast and leave long lasting impact on viewers which worked fine until writers exaggerated with it. Only and main problem was how in long run writers kept him too much in solidified role of older caretaker and cook of group which often overshadowed his other qualities, making people forget how he had more beneath that surface of his.

    I wished writers did more with his breeeding career, gave more attention to his pokemon and received more character development than he in reality had. Because there definitely existed way to expand on his story and make him more active.

    But still looking back Brock is great character in general imo and will always be considered important to me for anime series because he was there when everything started making along with Ash and Misty pokemon become popular and recognizable on global scale , paving way for future generations to come. He and original trio build around themselves certain iconic status which is something that lasts forever and his inexhaustible source of wisdom, intelligence and unselfich care helped alot for pokemon future, its characters and story.
    Trust me I know all of this stuff, you don't have to tell me. My point was that the writers never really put much effort into Brock and more often then not, shoved him into the background. Yes I know he was a supporting character but so was May and you can see the clear effort they put into her character. They never tried to improve Brock is what I'm saying. With Ash, you could see clear growth(until BW at least), with May, you could see clear growth. With Brock though, he never really grew or changed, he was just there and had the same exact role the entire run.

    This was quite clear to almost everybody which is why by the time Sinnoh came a long, people were sick of him already. When Sinnoh started, I remember feeling excited for Brock since he was actually treated fairly well in early Sinnoh. But that was it, after that it was like poof, where'd Brock go?? Why isn't Brock getting any focus or plots??

    This is why I say the writers gave up on him. Because they never gave it their all with him in the first place and then just stopped all together in DP.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Brock/Takeshi as a companion

    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post

    Trust me I know all of this stuff, you don't have to tell me. My point was that the writers never really put much effort into Brock and more often then not, shoved him into the background. Yes I know he was a supporting character but so was May and you can see the clear effort they put into her character. They never tried to improve Brock is what I'm saying. With Ash, you could see clear growth(until BW at least), with May, you could see clear growth. With Brock though, he never really grew or changed, he was just there and had the same exact role the entire run.

    This was quite clear to almost everybody which is why by the time Sinnoh came a long, people were sick of him already. When Sinnoh started, I remember feeling excited for Brock since he was actually treated fairly well in early Sinnoh. But that was it, after that it was like poof, where'd Brock go?? Why isn't Brock getting any focus or plots??

    This is why I say the writers gave up on him. Because they never gave it their all with him in the first place and then just stopped all together in DP.
    Not denying that because it left sour taste in my mouth as well, though to be fair its always been like that with female and male traveling companions unfortunately. In all three series Brock was present main girl always got most focus after Ash with writers putting more effort, screen time and character development than it was case with males changing notably as persons. Same applied to BW with Iris still overall getting more growth and change than Cilan in reality did who remained mostly same through whole series. Painting out picture of female companions serving purpose of going through character development, serve as emotional link with who fans could get attached to character wanting to see them succeed. Who will work toward dreams and go through struggles.

    While with male protagonists like Brock it always seemed to me like they were never intended from writers side to change much as persons or get a lot of attention toward their dreams diving deeper in whole thing. I mean same thing happened with Cilan with his connoisseur career not being nearly as focused like Iris master quest. May and Dawn goes without saying getting big contest arcs, while Misty despite back than in OS fomula being more geared toward adventure aspect and exploration of human relationship rather than working tieward dreams, training etc. Still got Whirl Islands, episodes dealing with water type and battling trainers, conflict with sisters or her fears etc.

    Much to my dismay Brock, but every other male sidekick which accompanied Ash mostly served purpose of older parental figure in cast which brings order ,settle down conflicts, takes care of Ash and co while providing humor, entertainment value and good dynamic within cast. Sometimes they receive growth and they get focus to be involved within episode plots exploring on their interests, but it seems to me how writers never intended for older male characters to be developed much.
    Putting Brock in position he stayed within for majority of series.

    Though i still think he gained more than lost from longer stay not bothering me that he was Ash commrade and partner through Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh firming unbreakable and visibly strong friendship between themselves feeling like brothers.

    Feeling like all those adventures, experience built over meeting new people and places made Brock learn, evolve and start appreciating certain things much more as person. At least in my opinion. I mean in Kanto i recall him being in general more colder and closed up as person not expressing same level of emotion and attachment toward his friends. Developing higher level of care, understanding and feelings clicking of great with Misty when talking about love and Ash reckless behavior, or doing private talks wiuth Ash in how to prepare strategy for league, tournaments etc even starting to cry at end of Johto. Same applied to Hoenn serving as some sort of role model to Max to who he could look up to admiring his immense wisdom and education, made company to May encouraging to keep trying in contest comforting her and Ash after loses and warning about potential dangers. I remembered another especially endearing moment happened when he prepared costumes for Dawn and Ash for Hearthome performance or teaching her first aid in how to heal Pachirisu. Its like Brock in emotional, personality sense became more compassionate as person,open and tolerant which showed best in better relationship with family(especially younger brother).

    So that much i liked about Brock treatment with subtle and on first glance small changes starting to come on surface over time, revealing that his character grew to extent over time.

    Though it always bothered me how little emphasis Brock breeding career received. Because it was unique and completely innovative way of working with your pokemon as team and raising them to grow in healthy, powerful creatures. Most of time his learning and improvement as breeder was comprised of consulting with various healers and other breeders he met on travels by learning how to prepare potions, all kinds of food and medicines, exchanging advices and applying his knowledge in various situations when pokemon was injured, poisoned etc. Ending recognized by various other doctors along the road.

    But that sadly never amounted or leaded toward something bigger which was i suppose main reason behind people disappointment.

    Though when taken in account what true essence of breeding involves we can safely come to conclusion how such concept would be too controversial to involve in children TV show. Another factor which probably played big role in how much screen time Brock dream is going to receive was activity and whole theme going behind what breeder job entails as whole. Being mainly along the lines of preparing food and potions, grooming pokemon and doing excercise to raise them in best physical shape. And quite frankly if you don't train, battle or enter competitions there's not much you can do with such career.
    Granted they could probably come up with some contests for breeders but target audience mostly watch this show for battles and action, so i presume writers probably felt how kids wouldn't be interested in events which revolve on determining pokemon beauty and shape.

    Still despite wishing to be done more, Brock as character for role he performed and given limitations of his breeding career was handled decent having several even stellar moments in majority of series he got present in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Brock/Takeshi as a companion

    I belive Broke should always stay his my favorite of all the Characters in pokemon, and makes amazing food according to the show

  4. #19
    "Aphrodite Lady" LavenderTownGhost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brock/Takeshi as a companion

    I personally enjoyed Brock's character. Yes, he did become very repetitive, but in my opinion, it was almost always laughable. I don't know too much about the newer episodes so I don't know what really happened to him, but I certainly wouldn't mind if he comes back some day. He was such a wonderful character back in the older seasons.
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  5. #20
    Le Choléra Jabberwocky's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Brock/Takeshi as a companion

    Quote Originally Posted by LavenderTownGhost View Post
    I personally enjoyed Brock's character. Yes, he did become very repetitive, but in my opinion, it was almost always laughable. I don't know too much about the newer episodes so I don't know what really happened to him, but I certainly wouldn't mind if he comes back some day. He was such a wonderful character back in the older seasons.
    Well, his career path (Pokemon medical student) isn't exactly restrictive against him coming back.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Brock/Takeshi as a companion

    I really liked Takeshi.
    The only exception being his original series (post-Orange Islands) behavior. Or lack of it.

    Yeah his recurring jokes got old, but I think nobody, NOBODY, got even close to replacing his role as the responsible big brother role in the series. Which IMO was actually highlighted in DP despide Masato being gone with the end of AG.
    There were several episodes in DP exploring his importance within the travelling trio. My favorite being the one he's temporarily away.

    To me THAT'S what his role was. He didn't really have to star a whole episode. He didn't need to battle often. He's more of a big brother and advisor than someone there to take the spotlight.

    Now as for his sendoff... I'm not sure how I feel about it. I thought it was very sudden. But I also like how he completely deviated from the obvious path of sticking to what he first saw as his goal, which was being a breeder. I mean, that kind of thing actually happens with people in real life.
    I only wish he would show up a little more often than Kenji, playing his new role somewhat.


    Oh just one more thing.
    His japanese voice is... is... BRILLIANT!!
    The one thing keeping me from not so much as chuckling at the most recycled Takeshi recurring jokes is his voice actor. How Takeshi rises his voice in comical ways when he gets over-excited, desperate or shocked. His voice actor makes a whole lot of difference in the comical moments.
    And mind you before that I hated him precisely because of his portuguese and american voice actors. His portuguese one sounded bland. His american one sounded like an annoying commercial narrator.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Brock/Takeshi as a companion

    I thought he was great in OS and AG. He filled the role of being the most knowledgeable trainer in the group nicely and had some hilarious moments.

    He should have left after that because there was no reason to have him in DP and that was made blatantly obvious by him doing nothing.

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