Thread: Which is better: DP or BW?

Originally Posted by U-missed-a-spot

^He knows that. Read the post further than you did. xD

Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare

Originally Posted by ♥Lady Marie♥

Best Wishes isn't using what makes gen 5

Gen 5 is best wishes, gen 4 is DP (diamond and pearl).

I meant of the games. The unlimited TM's new dual types and TP. Make BW1 and BW2 badass games. Even though it's for kids it's still badass Kirby is one guy I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley. But best wishes just makes jokes I like jokes but I either don't get them or they're not my style. Maybe I'm getting old but a Johto episode I don't remember made me laugh. Maybe I'm getting old or grumpy or maybe its because I can't get into comedy that doesn't have a good or at least clever or heartwarming story.

Opps! :(

Yeah that's what happens when I'm sleepy, I just rush thro a post. ^^; And Yeah I agree with the unlimited TMs thing. And yeah The anime Gen 5 and Game Gen 5 are dramaticly diffrent.

For all of DP's failing's it was still better than BW.

Even when the BW series is almost at it's peak, I still prefer DP over it. The league is just starting and I already can't stand it. Mostly all of Ash's rivals are either jokes or gags. While Iris and Cilan's aren't good enough. Ash caught alot of Pokemon yes. I liked that but if this was DP I bet that they would have been done much better. I know BW is rushed but that's a good thing. I wouldn't want to keep watching this series too long with all of the stuff they can't see to get done properly.

For the long-running situation, I would prefer Diamond & Pearl.
I must mention that the first season of Best Wishes! was tastefully handled, especially the fillers. I find BW fillers much more amusing than any other series'. But yeah, it went down hill after that. It just seems that the writers didn't have any particular plan or direction when they were writing it.

Best Wishes problems IMO:

1) Ash capturing more than 6 pokemon was a good idea that was horribly executed. Some of his captures feel extremely pointless like Palpitoad, as if they only had one major usage and that's it. This team is handled horribly.

2) The lack of evolutions for the right Pokemon is bizarre. After his Hoenn and Sinnoh teams were handled well its like back to the Johto style.

3) Iris had a lot of potential as a character that felt squandered when the writers felt the need to rush her development and show her to be too perfect. The Dragonite is only one of many problems. Its amazing that people will criticize characters for being weak at first and then getting stronger, as opposed to someone who is treated as perfect from the beginning.

4) Trip is a terrible rival.

5) The battles, for the most part, seem worse than DP. I'll have to rewatch Johto and AG's battles for comparison though.

6) I dislike Ash's characterisation this saga.

7) When you stop to think about it, there's really not much truly "new" about this saga other than the handling of TR. The Don Battle Tournaments merely seem to be replacements for the Contests, and Iris and Cilan fill the same roles as past companions.


I think BW is better than some people give it credit for, but the flaws of this saga really stick out.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

4) Trip is a terrible rival.

I agree with most of your statements, but wanna explain the reason for this a bit?

I personally prefer B/W. Maybe because I liked the darker Team Rocket trio.

But I will hold off on comparing to the other arcs until it's done.

Diamond & Pearl's Problem was that it was too long.
But everything else was great .
While ''Best Wish's'' just Pathetic with No story Plot ,Meaningless Glorification ,No good rival , No proper character development , and Stupid Boring filler.
We should just call this series ''Worst Wishs'' !

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

I prefer DP but I do like some of the aspects over BW over it. The way I see it, DP went on too long but BW is too rushed.

Although DP had a lot of important episodes, spending an entire episode to teach a Pokemon a new move was boring as shit, and lots of DP episodes were about that. I understand why some training episodes are important, but sitting through it for an entire episode was just awful.

I actually preferred having an episode where a Pokemon learned a new move with some kind of training over suddenly appearing. I never liked that even when I first got into the anime. Though, I do think that they could have handled some of the training episodes better to make them more interesting, but I don't think that they would be one of my main problems with the series in general. As for the length of DP, I'm not sure if it was too long. It might have felt too long, but I don't think that there were a lot of episodes that they could have cut out to make the Sinnoh saga significantly shorter. Plus, it just took more advantage of the time it had, generally speaking at least, than BW has with its rushed pacing.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

And honestly with the exception of Paul, Barry and to a lesser extent Conway and Ursula (who barely appeared), the DP rivals were dull and forgettable. Even Zoey who appeared so much generally got duller and duller with each appearance until she became a Mary Sue by the end of the region.

That would only include Zoey, Nando and Kenny and honestly, I think that only the latter two are the forgettable rivals in this series. All things considered, that's not really that bad and most of the rivals in DP are still far better than the rivals in BW. At least there's some tension in those rivalries while in BW, most of the rivals are used for comedy relief, which may make them entertaining characters, but not good rivals in my opinion. Even Kenny might be better than Trip, which is pretty sad when he's one of the most forgettable reappearing characters in this franchise. Zoey was pretty boring to me, but I wouldn't consider her forgettable due to the impact she had on Dawn through their student/mentor relationship. I also still don't quite see how she became a Mary Sue by the end of the series. She spent time training her Pokemon, so it wasn't like she was that good without any work towards it and she lost at least two Contests. While I didn't really care for her as a rival, I did come to respect her as a Coordinator by the Grand Festival and she honestly deserved to win after her battle with Nando.

Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty

And I don't think I have to mention about the lack of chemistry of the DP trio.

I've almost finished rewatching DP on DVD and I still don't really see this lack of chemistry between the DP trio. They were all clearly friends, which is still more than I can say for the BW trio where only two people feel like friends. They definitely could have done a better job with the interactions between Dawn and Brock, but it was still obvious to me that they were friends given how much Brock supported Dawn in her Contests and Dawn learning medicine from Brock.

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

I've almost finished rewatching DP on DVD and I still don't really see this lack of chemistry between the DP trio. They were all clearly friends, which is still more than I can say for the BW trio where only two people feel like friends. They definitely could have done a better job with the interactions between Dawn and Brock, but it was still obvious to me that they were friends given how much Brock supported Dawn in her Contests and Dawn learning medicine from Brock.

In my opinion, that's not really the problem. The fact that they're friends really doesn't make up for the lack of interesting chemistry between the two of them, which was completely non-existent.

When you are at school, most people in your class, if not all, are naturally considered to be your ''friends''. They are your classmates. However, just because you're friends you still might not know each other too well. When you're paired up together in some project, you'd probably be nice with each other and act friendly, but that doesn't really mean that there's chemistry going on between you. At least not the kind of chemistry which two very close friends usually have. Two close friends usually dare to take a step forward, and they're always being themselves when they're hanging out with each other. They argue, they laugh, they joke around with each other, they support and help each other, and they often test each other's limits. Those are the kind of things that I've seen when I've watched Misty and Brock interact, May and Brock interact, Ash and Dawn interact, Ash and Iris interact, Cilan and Iris interact and more.

With Dawn and Brock, however, it's kinda lackluster, as nothing really is happening besides that boring and nearly unnatural friendly behavior they always seem to have. They are friends, no doubt about it, but being friends and really good friends are two separate things, with the primer representing Dawn and Brock IMO.

That's at least my opinion regarding the topic. They might have chemistry, but not the kind of chemistry that makes their interactions memorable or interesting in any way, which I at least was hoping to see.

Dawn and Brock had the common link of being Ash's friend, but very little toward each other. That's why I called them associates.

Could you really see Dawn and Brock traveling together if Ash wasn't there? They have very little in common and while they're pleasant with each other, that's about it.

I could see Dawn and Brock traveling together without Ash more than I could see Iris and Cilan traveling together without Ash, really. Yeah, I do think Dawn and Brock's interactions were lacking (especially compared to how May interacted with Brock beforehand) and nothing to write home about, but I think that's leagues more believable than Iris and Cilan, where Iris can hardly go an episode without remarking about how annoying Cilan is and/or how boring his passion for his hobbies are. Dawn and Brock may not have much in common, but Dawn was never so overwhelmingly negative about Brock's quirks or interests and looked totally fine going along with him. It's not like Dawn could easily just ditch him and survive on her own in the jungle, swinging vines and relying on a sixth sense to get around, and being fine with settling on a diet of nothing but raw fruits. We saw in the beginning of the series that Dawn was quick to get lost, flustered, and crying for her mom when she tried to do things on her own, contrary to Iris who we saw from both present evidence and flashbacks that Iris is totally fine with traveling and surviving on her own, and most of her "progressions" in regards to her Pokemon had very little to no input from Ash or Cilan (Cilan pointing out Excadrill's issue is the most we got of trio participation with her), so evidence shows Iris has nothing to gain by being in the group besides getting nicer meals, whereas Dawn's gain from being with the group went far beyond the necessities of food: moral support, advice about training, Pokemon, and coordinating (which Brock did give from time to time). And consequently, Iris would not really have anything to lose (other than "friends", but despite last week's episode we've seen Iris manage just fine without human friends many times so it's kind of moot :P) if she didn't travel with Cilan, whereas Dawn would be missing out on a lot without Brock, which should at least be evident because Dawn namedrops Brock more than once during her BW cameo.

It may be a friendship that's not well developed, but it's a friendship that's at least mildly convincing and serves a purpose. I know not all friendships are all the same, but the excessive attitude Iris gives Cilan for no reason really makes it look like she can't stand being around him most of the time. :\ It may be more dynamic than Dawn and Brock's interactions, but I really don't think that automatically makes it better. Both Brock and Cilan serve the role as the supportive, knowledgeable mentor of the group. While Dawn at least listens and respects the wisdom Brock has to offer, Iris usually writes off Cilan's word to the wise as a "boring lecture". :| So logically I can't see how Iris and Cilan's dynamics are so astronomically superior to Brock and Dawn's. Iris and Cilan have nothing in common either, but the pleasantness factor is only occasionally present. ... Yeah.

Well, to be fair, how many companions could you see traveling together without Ash as a catalyst? I can't see Misty traveling with Tracy alone, although Brock may have happened, and I can't really see Dawn or May traveling with Brock period. The central link for all of the companions has always been Ash, and if their characterizations were good or got better (Misty in Kanto/OI, May over time, Dawn) then they would actually bond with the other companion. Trouble is, that didn't happen here.

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

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I've almost finished rewatching DP on DVD and I still don't really see this lack of chemistry between the DP trio. They were all clearly friends, which is still more than I can say for the BW trio where only two people feel like friends. They definitely could have done a better job with the interactions between Dawn and Brock, but it was still obvious to me that they were friends given how much Brock supported Dawn in her Contests and Dawn learning medicine from Brock.

I have to agree, and when i see clams such as DP group chemistry being apparently "nonexistent" it seems like blowing things out of proportion. Brock maybe didn't has do many sharing moments with Dawn like he had with May and especially Misty being both romantic souls sharing same background as gym leaders.

However when i watched Sinnoh i still get impression how he and Dawn formed relatively solid friendship based on support and encouragement. I remember how many times Brock supported Dawn in her contest, helped her about it such as preparing costumes for Hearthome collection. He taught her and Ash about first aid and how to prepare medicine, applying his knowledge in healing Pachirisu. Something which later played important role in getting Mamoswine thrust by applying skills taught by him.

I remember being involved in several funny situations too such as performance of Takeshi Pradise in Psyduck episode and looking back, while their friendship wasn't so apparent and close like it may have been with previous girls i can say they still gave that vibe, feeling of acting like friends to each other. If Brock wasn't sidelined too much i can only imagine their friendship growing and becoming more noticeable.

With Ash i saw no real issues in here still existing respect and strong friendship between them with Broick helping him about propblems like Chimchar ad his wild outbursts , helping him in training Infernape, before battling gym leaders like Roark still providing advices, often giving advices to prevent him and Dawn from getting involved in bad situations stepping in as "voice of reason"(such as protecting Shieldon for example).

DP group as whole maybe didn't had most memorable and eccentric dynamic in pokemon imo, but quite frankly you don't need eccentric, exaggerating persona quirks to form solid and believable friendship and i can say how there existed friendship between Brock and his traveling companions.

Originally Posted by Sith Droideka

Well, to be fair, how many companions could you see traveling together without Ash as a catalyst? I can't see Misty traveling with Tracy alone, although Brock may have happened, and I can't really see Dawn or May traveling with Brock period. The central link for all of the companions has always been Ash, and if their characterizations were good or got better (Misty in Kanto/OI, May over time, Dawn) then they would actually bond with the other companion. Trouble is, that didn't happen here.

Well in Tracey defense, he and Misty had pretty good interaction in chronicles. Im not sure why is Johto left out either because while it may had many flaws, characterization wasn't one of them with Misty having several memorable moments with Ash or Brock.

Well, I'll admit that in early Johto and late Johto Misty wasn't bad, nor was her friendship. Middle Johto, the bulk of it before, say, the Whirl Islands, on the other hand...

However, that has nothing to do with DP vs BW, so I think I'll just leave this here that a major point against BW in a comparison is that DP handled Team Galactic relatively well while BW left Team Plasma completely alone.