Thread: Is Ash good enough to take down an Elite Four Pokemon?

When hell freezes over.

He isn't even good enough to be in the same vicinity with an elite four member let alone get a battle and beat one of their pokemon.

Originally Posted by Steel_Justice

He isn't even good enough to be in the same vicinity with an elite four member let alone get a battle and beat one of their pokemon.

I dunno. He handled himself pretty well against Bertha and Flint; if the Elite Four weren't protected by plot, I'd say he would have been able to beat them.

i think Ash would stand a great shot vs Aaron. There is no way Aaron's beautyfly could withstand the sheer power of Charizard. Even Ash's biggest critics wouldn't favour Beautifly to beat Charizard or even Infernape.

before unova, yes.
after unova league, clearly NOOOO, he have not the skills to beat Clair in johto or most of hoenn and sinnoh gym leader

It depends on which Ash you're talking about really. Original and Johto Ash would at least land a few hits before going down, Hoenn and Sinnoh Ash might get past one but not win depending on the member, while amnesiac Unova Ash wouldn't even land one hit.

On a scale of Hell no to Hell Yes...

Kanto Ash: Hell no.

Johto Ash: No.

Hoenn Ash: Yes. (Its implied by Drake that he would have done better against him, had he been thinking strait. This also improved him later in the series.)

Sinnoh Ash: Hell Yes. (Many actually thought he would take them on and defeat a few, it certainly would have been believable.)

Unova Ash: Hell no.

The scale basically went on a normal increasing pattern before being reset at Unova.

I really don't see how Ash would've been able to defeat any Elite Four members even as his Sinnoh self...

Flint completely crushed him with his Infernape, and that was when Ash also used three of his stronger Pokémon in his Sinnoh team, and despite that he still lost badly.

Not to mention his battle with Bertha, where Torterra had a clear advantage type-wise, but we still could see how Bertha was practically only toying with Ash, hoping that she'd be able to help him learn something, and pretty much could take out Torterra whenever she wanted to.

Maybe if we had seen Flint's Infernape get a little exhausted from their battle I would've thought different, but seeing how it seemed to be in the exact same shape as before the battle had even started I say no.

the difference is that Ash has hardly ever used his best pokemon vs elite four members. Torterra was only in his first region, so was Infernape, and they didn't stand much of a chance. Pikachu is too vulnerable given its size.

Pokemon like Snorlax, Sceptile and Charizard would stand a much better shot.

I also think it obviously depends on the writers. The writers often make the elite four untouchable, perhaps to justify why Ash hasn't won the league and to make sure Ash keeps travelling to new regions. If Ash actually even managed to knock out a single elite four pokemon, it will seem very strange that he didn't even reach the finals of any league.

I actually think he may be able to do so if he has a type advantage.

An example would be Aaron. I think Ash's Charizard and Infernape would be able to take down at least one of his Bug Pokemon.

In normal circunstances, no. Perphaps the Ash that defeated Darkrai could do something with them but not outright defeating them. In the rest of Sinnoh and any other saga, Ash don't have the power to fight a single Elite 4 pokemon. But I was the creator of the idea that although it's difficult can happen that...

Ash would fight the Unova Elite 4 in Episode N. The reason is that Episode N heavily hints a showdown between Reshiram and Zekrom like in BW (NOT Charizard vs Reshiram). In the BW games, the way that the player would defeat N was defeating the Elite 4 first and after that, defeat N. The idea was that Ash encounters Reshiram, N defeats the League only with Reshiram, that Juniper/Cedric/How knows) gives Ash the Dark Orb (Zekrom), N claims that Ash and not Virgil in the person that goes to the Elite 4, Ash fights and wins* (not without problems of course) with his team** and finally Ash know that the Champion is N and here Ash catches Zekrom with a Master Ball***, Ash fights N, there's a showdown Zekrom vs Reshiram, the battle ends in a draw, the battle continues in a 6vs6 and Ash will defeat N and the Plasma arc ends. At the end Ash releases Zekrom.

The layout would be:
-4 episodes for the Elite 4 battles (yes, no more). The battle will be 3vs3 or 4vs4.
-3 episodes of the Ash vs N showdown. Remembers that here Ash catches Zekrom and Team Plasma story ends.
-2/3 episodes to end Best Wishes.
*The Elite 4 will be weaker than usual when they fight Ash. Ash with reserves won't win against them normally.
**Ash will use his past Pokemon to take part in those battles. Ash's Charizard will be the star of this. Expect Sceptile, Infernape, Snorlax, Heracross, Staraptor to fight here is there's the case.
***In the anime, it's unbelievable that Zekrom will be catchable with a Poke Bal. A Master Ball could beuseful to catch them.l

>Reason to hide: for the people that don't like knowing information about the upcoming arc

Originally Posted by fer92

The reason is that Episode N heavily hints a showdown between Reshiram and Zekrom like in BW (NOT Charizard vs Reshiram).

No, the opening pretty much confirms a showdown between Charizard and Reshiram. There is no sign of Zekrom, let alone the Elite Four.

In the BW games, the way that the player would defeat N was defeating the Elite 4 first and after that, defeat N. The idea was that Ash encounters Reshiram, N defeats the League only with Reshiram, that Juniper/Cedric/How knows) gives Ash the Dark Orb (Zekrom), N claims that Ash and not Virgil in the person that goes to the Elite 4, Ash fights and wins* (not without problems of course) with his team** and finally Ash know that the Champion is N and here Ash catches Zekrom with a Master Ball***, Ash fights N, there's a showdown Zekrom vs Reshiram, the battle ends in a draw, the battle continues in a 6vs6 and Ash will defeat N and the Plasma arc ends. At the end Ash releases Zekrom.

You do realize that N is Ash's friend, right? He will help him defeat Team Plasma. It is obvious that we aren't getting an adaptation of the Black and White plot.

Well, he's good enough to take down a Frontier Brain :D

Originally Posted by Yankees4life

Well, he's good enough to take down a Frontier Brain :D

But aside from Brandon, none of them aren't really on par with Elite Four members. They're more like high level Gym Leaders really.

I agree with what most people are saying, if he compiles a Team of his best, he can take on an E4 with ease... in his Sinnoh mind state of course, if he battled an E4 member with the way he's been acting in Unova, he's lost my respect.