Thread: Is Ash good enough to take down an Elite Four Pokemon?

Paul mopped the floor with Ash but Ash beat Paul. Just because theycreamed one pokemon with one pokemon doesn't mean Ash doesn't have chance. People have bad days and one on one battles prove nothing cause they are SO short. The Flint 3 on 3 was the ONLY piece of compelling evidence IMO and that was one time. And almost beating Tyson is compelling evidence is because the winner of the tournament is the strongest person seeking a challenge so that would put Tyson right under them, unless all strongest people are in training at the same time or a tournament win gives you a permanent elite 4 challenge and every one who has a chance already one.

I dont think the cynthia beating paul argument works That well. Ash is a much better trainer than paul. He defeated paul despite starting out all over again. Paul, however was using pokemon That he had obtained earlier.

I thinks so. Every time he's fought and lost to an e4 member has been a mixture of poor choices and his pokemon just not being ready, IMO.(Drake) Pikachu and Grovyle just didn't match up well against dragon pokemon.(Flint) Infernape had just evolved and wasn't ready for Flint's Infernape. Pikachu was OK, didn't really get a good hit in though. Buizel just got over powered. It was a great choice but he also needs much more battle experience before he's ready to fight an e4 pokemon. (Prima/Agatha) Pikachu did pretty good in both of these battles. He got at least 1 solid hit in both. So ignoring the fact I think most of his pokemon (with 3 or 4 exceptions) need more training I still think, with good enough choices, he could fair pretty well in say a 4 on 4 battle with an e4 member.

For example Marshal of the Unova e4. I could maybe see Ash putting up a decent fight against him. Lets say he chose Swellow, Staraptor, Pikachu, and Noctowl (who can also use psychic moves). Staraptor and Swellow have both shown they're above average. Pikachu is Pikachu. And Noctowl matches up PERFECTLY with Marshal's team. So yeah, it just really depends on who he's fighting and if he chooses good match ups.

Originally Posted by Umbreon19

For example Marshal of the Unova e4. I could maybe see Ash putting up a decent fight against him. Lets say he chose Swellow, Staraptor, Pikachu, and Noctowl (who can also use psychic moves). Staraptor and Swellow have both shown they're above average. Pikachu is Pikachu. And Noctowl matches up PERFECTLY with Marshal's team. So yeah, it just really depends on who he's fighting and if he chooses good match ups.

A good point, but Marshal's Pokemon may have a few Rock type moves, which makes Gliscor the best choice in that case. If only the bat had learnt a Flying type move.

I think it would depend on who he was facing, what Pokemon he chose to use and his strategy. Based on those kind of variables, I think that Ash could put up a really good fight and maybe even come close to winning, but I don't think he's ready to defeat an Elite 4 Pokemon just yet. The amount of experience and strength in an Elite 4 Pokemon would tip it in their favor during the battle and even if Ash planned out what Pokemon to use, I could still see him getting overconfident or getting carried away with the excitement of the battle and making mistakes that cost him the match.

All E4 pokemon have plot armor except when facing the region champion, Ash will never beat one of those.

I think he could defeat at least one, probably more, if he used what he thought was his best team from all his Pokemon.

He beat Drake of the Orange League choosing his best team and I don't think anyone had beaten Drake before in the Orange League history. Most trainers had their entire teams defeated just by Drakes' Ditto; that sort of reminds me of the power of an Elite Four's Pokemon.

I don't know if Drake is as strong as an Elite Four member but I think he would be very close.

Considering that the writers tend to make E4 members and Champions as overpowered as possible, Ash wouldn't even survive unless he trained his Pokemon harder, I mean, he is capable of winning a league (even if the writers are intent on having him lose every tournament he enters), but given how the E4 and Champions are constantly portrayed, it wouldn't have a chance of happening unless Ash did something really surprising.

Even if the boy had some of his strongest Pokemon with him, I still think he wouldn't win. That is if the writers won't let him.

didnt Agatha destroy him after the Hoenn league

Originally Posted by Mythicalzoe

didnt Agatha destroy him after the Hoenn league

He actually put up a decent fight against Agatha.

I suppose he might be good enough, but until he wins a league, he'll probably never beat one in a battle, considering he never wins against important trainers in free battles (main rivals, gym leaders, etc.) - and E4 members don't seem to be an exception.

Originally Posted by Trainer Gabriel

Originally Posted by Mythicalzoe

didnt Agatha destroy him after the Hoenn league

He actually put up a decent fight against Agatha.

Ash vs Agatha:

Pikachu uses Quick Attack. Agatha just smirks, doesn't retaliate when QA doesn't work.
Pikachu tries to use thunderbolt, misses. Gengar uses Shadow Ball, misses. Pikachu hits with Iron Tail.
Then in one of the silliest moments in the anime, Pikachu runs on top of the Shadow Ball, and thus takes no damage.

Double-Team from Gengar. Thunderbolt hits everyone clone. Pikachu follows up with Iron Tail to Gengar's face. Then Agatha finishes Pikachu of with the only actual hit she got in.

Frankly, Ash has serious issues with the tankyness of the E4 mons.

Originally Posted by RWB

Ash vs Agatha:

Pikachu uses Quick Attack. Agatha just smirks, doesn't retaliate when QA doesn't work.
Pikachu tries to use thunderbolt, misses. Gengar uses Shadow Ball, misses. Pikachu hits with Iron Tail.
Then in one of the silliest moments in the anime, Pikachu runs on top of the Shadow Ball, and thus takes no damage.

Double-Team from Gengar. Thunderbolt hits everyone clone. Pikachu follows up with Iron Tail to Gengar's face. Then Agatha finishes Pikachu of with the only actual hit she got in.

Frankly, Ash has serious issues with the tankyness of the E4 mons.

I suppose, perhaps, what I should say is that Ash put up a good fight for a battle with a member of the E4. He made a lot of quick-thinking decisions that allowed Pikachu to last as long as he did and even said "finish it off with Thunder" with that last attack he called after the successful Iron Tail, implying that he would have won had that attack connected (unless he was just being cocky), but then Agatha retaliated with a Hypnosis and then Dream Eater before Pikachu could launch the attack. Agatha even congratulated him on a job well done, considering who his opponent really was when he learned that secret.

I'd call that a decent battle.

Sure, he could put up a heck of a fight against lots of E4 members. If he used Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape, Pikachu, Gliscor, and, I dunno, Heracross, he might actually win against one. For example:
If he fought Grimsley with those Pokemon, he'd have a bit of an advantage, as both Infernape and Heracross know Fighting-type moves. If Grimsley used a Honchkrow, Pikachu has a strong chance against it. For a Scrafty, he could use Charizard. A Krookodile would fall to Sceptile, and, possibly, a Tyranitar. Gliscor could handle a Houndoom, and knows X-Scissor, so it could take out a portion of Grimsley's team. Ash has massive advantages if he chooses the right Pokemon, he just chooses Pokemon he likes to use instead of using his absolute strongest.

I don't think he'd be able to beat one, but depending on which it is he battles I could definitely see him at least take out 2 or 3 of their Pokémon using the six best Pokémon that'd have a somewhat advantage against that specific typing. I wouldn't go as far as having him beat 4 of their Pokémon, because even though he'd have a type advantage it is after all the Elite Four we're speaking of. With all the battle experience they have they'd surely be able to counter most of his strategies.