Just like a majority of the people here, I liked May's episodes the best. In fact,t he Wallace Cup arc was one of my favorite arcs in DP. I loved how May actually helped Dawn out and left an impact. Plus we actually got an update on her Johto contests, along with mentions of her family and her rivals. With Dawn's return in BW, we didn't learn anything about how she was doing with her Hoenn contests or how things were going with her rivals or her mom. To me it just seemed like Dawn was there to make Iris shine more, and it didn't help that most of the focus in the tournament was her and Dragonite and the stuff with Trip. Plus I was kind of hoping that we'd see Dawn with some new Hoenn pokemon on her team, or at least a new evolution. (*cough*Buneary*cough*)
Now with Misty's return, I liked the episode where she bonded with Max more than the Togepi episodes. Those episodes weren't bad but I do get tired of seeing them sometimes. I'll probably never get tired of watching the Wallace Cup episodes. Those were my favorite contest episodes in DP.
Look Forward, Team Rocket!
Also I claim Piplup in the Claim a Pokemon thread =)
Granted voices were probably biggest minus having hard time personally in adjusting to them not portraying Ash and other characters in natural way lacking emotion and effort invested into character roles. Although out of them i think Misty and Jessie for first try were decent.
Personally i think Misty kept enjoyable aspects of character after maturity too.Misty seemed a little TOO mature for my taste, a little too sensitive and nice. And Dawn didn't seem as bubbly and pumped up as she was in D/P...but May definitely kept her cool. I hope they'll all get another appearance, or hopefully meet up again, at some point. ^_^
I enjoyed in her comeback in Hoenn, showing up in light of more competent and mature trainer who had Gyarados under her wing, while keeping that feisty charm and snarky side of hers.
She was still quirky and tomboyish, playfully teased Ash and Brock, interaction with Daisy and Tracey were dynamic with sisters leaving some influence on her becoming little bit more outgoing. While remaining strong willed having attitude when arguing with others.
Reason why she didn't shouted at anyone in some episodes was because she became more grown up and responsible at that point, not exploding unless she has reason to do so. And in episodes like Pallet reunion which were focused on reunion of friends and helping Max to get better along with his sister May, random outbursts would only seem out of place. In Togepi episodes on other hand she showed lot of spunk.
Personally i enjoyed in her characterization just as much as i did in Mays and her interactions with Ash and Dawn. I only wished we got to see more of May Venusaur and Wartortle aside from their brief showing in one of earlier rounds in Wallace Cup.
@Aloasa: I don't know how familiar today generations are with previous girls, but what i do know is that older female companions are slowly but surely being abandoned and forgotten from writer side. Usual formula consists of first ditching character from cast, being followed with rare and sparse once in blue moon appearances, later on being limited to non speaking roles through minor references just to eventually completely disappear from face of earth. Something which is happening with Misty, and May isn't falling much behind either.
As this cycling continues, previous girls will be pushed to side even more to make room for new ones with image, impact and relevance they had/has slowly, but surely starting to fade away.
Shame, because we already have so many interesting characters but instead of writers capitalizing on someone popularity taking him forward in fresh directions, this show rather promotes idea of endless cycling through characters leaving stories unfinished, and all potential to expand upon abandoned. To do same thing with new ones anyway, becoming pointless and destroying that little of continuity show still has.
Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 23rd October 2012 at 04:54 AM.
Defnitely May's apperance in DP, no question about it. Hell, I'd even say that except for the announcement of Best Wishes! after that the Ash Vs. Nando battle had aired, the announcement of May making a return might just have been the thing that during the DP saga got me the most exicted. I was completely overjoyed.
Next I'd probably say Dawn's appearance in BW, because even though her cameo served no purpose I finally enjoyed Dawn's character, who I previously only felt hatred against due to her awfully boring personality. Her interactions with Iris were great, and the three first episodes with her she was actually really enjoyable, not to mention that she and Iris also had a great battle in the World Cup.
Misty's cameos I never really cared much for, so I'd put her in last place.
''A single thread in a tapestry though its color brightly shine, can never see its purpose, in the pattern of the grand design.''
Yikes, I apparently voted in this already but I totally forgot this thread ever existed.
But it's a no-brainer that I voted for May for the reasons already cited by the others; May making a cameo in DP both served a purpose and was enjoyable to watch. We actually got an idea of what progress May was making in Johto, saw some changes (evolutions) in her team plus extra incentive for May to come to Sinnoh so she could make her Eevee a Glaceon, got extra goodies like seeing Dawn and May interact outside of the competition where they meshed very well together and definitely came off like potential best buddies if they could hang out all the time... and despite Dawn gushing over May (calling her the Princess of Hoenn and whatnot), it didn't come off as forced since it would make sense that Dawn would be watching a lot of contests on TV before starting her journey and be caught up in May's performances. And it didn't ever feel like she went overboard with it, either. I remember wishing that Dawn's post-DP journey would be to travel with May so they'd become an unstoppable Coordinator Tag-Team. XD It was great seeing May relate with Dawn over her own issues, plus some classic May traits really got to shine (such as May being a shopaholic = getting loads of souvenirs for her friends, and finding the highest-class place to eat). And even though they were silent cameos, it was cool to see May's rivals and family both when being referenced and when they watched the Wallace Cup. I'm just a sucker for continuity being maintained, I guess. And while it's a superficial thing to be a goober for, I love-love-loved May switching her wardrobe to the Emerald version~! ♥
May and Ash also had nice interactions kept on from when May was a regular and I loved seeing their two halves of the Terracotta Ribbon again. And it was neat to see May interact and battle with Zoey, too. I bet she wishes she had it as easy as Dawn when it came to her rival situation. XD And even though May's main purpose in coming back was to give Dawn the confidence to push on ahead with Contests, it wasn't an over-the-top glorification of Dawn as she only narrowly beat May in a very well-written battle where it was also justifiable in that Dawn was using her first and strongest Pokemon whereas May was using her most recently-acquired Pokemon that even more recently evolved. It was a reasonable outcome that made both Dawn and May look good in the end. tl;dr: it's the best cameo in the Pokemon anime thus far.
Misty's cameos were rather... mehh. On the other hand, we didn't need much exposition in the way of how Misty was progressing since she left the main cast since she had a few Chronicles episodes dedicated to her for that purpose, but the only good thing about Misty's first cameo in AG was her finally getting rid of Togepi/Togetic. And the only good thing about her cameos in Battle Frontier was her bonding with Max over issues they had in common - being the youngest sibling. Outside of May and Max's squabbles that happened in AG, the Pokemon anime often doesn't delve much into sibling interactions, but whenever they do, they usually don't disappoint. So that much I liked. However, May and Misty's interactions were dull as dishwater, especially since they were hyped up big time by the fandom which at the time found it a big deal for the original token chick of the show to be meeting her first replacement face-to-face. And honestly there's nothing much memorable in how Misty interacted with Brock or Ash during her cameos as far as I recall, either. And her AG outfit was uuuuuugly. So was her original outfit, to be fair. I just would've preferred to see Misty wearing the yellow hoodie that she wore for a couple of Chronicles episodes. Not much with Misty stuck out to me while she was around, and I personally wasn't a fan of Max picking up the Brock ear-grab trait from her. :\
But even that was less awful than Dawn's BW cameo. I'm not sure if Dawn having way more episodes than Misty or May to cameo in is a factor in why her presence in BW was such a drag or if it's just because Best Wishes' writing in general is awful and not even Dawn was spared from being fucked over from the staff's incompetence. Either way, it could have been so much better. To hell with her out-of-left-field Elesa fascination; Dawn had no reason whatsoever to come to Unova. And unlike Misty and May, Dawn's story after leaving the main cast makes no sense whatsoever. She planned to go to Kanto, got held up with a modeling offer for her Buneary (never got any word on how that went), and instead of going to Kanto afterward as she intended, she goes to Hoenn because Wallace is there (which is stupid), then goes to Unova not only for no good reason, but we never hear a word on how Dawn's even progressed in her Hoenn journey, and by the end of her cameo she decides to go to Johto... because.... Wallace is there... what. It's just so frustratingly disjointed and Dawn pretty much learned jack shit during her stay in Unova, which makes her being there all the more pointless. And her presence was pretty much an afterthought; nearly every episode she was in, I can imagine them for the most part playing out the same way without her. It was painfully obvious that Dawn's presence in BW was more for Piplup's benefit than her own, and by benefit I mean undeserved screentime since Japan loves that limelight-hogging little cock. Even having more episodes to work with than May had, the only Pokemon we ever got to see of Dawn's was Piplup and Mamoswine, with just a smidge of Quilava at the end.
Unlike May who helped Dawn out with her problems by relating to them, Dawn's attempts to help Iris' Dragonite problems by relating them to her initial troubles with Mamoswine did jack shit for Iris. To be fair, EVERYONE'S advice to Iris had more or less the same effectiveness, but it made Dawn's presence even more meaningless. And unlike Dawn and May, Dawn and Iris' friendship felt incredibly forced and superficial. They were practically joined at the hip for most of Dawn's cameo, Dawn gushed over her for no real reason as they had absolutely nothing in common... not saying friendships with people from opposite ends of the spectrum can't work, but there was no logical basis for why Dawn was such a goddamn brown-noser. Even Dawn's praise for May wasn't that overt, and that one actually made sense! But it really felt like Dawn only existed to praise Iris; she barely had any notable interaction with Ash even though they were very good friends in DP and I always thought they had a sibling-like bond in that series, but I see no such bond in Best Wishes. It looked like the writers preferred to throw all that away just so they could have another excuse to convince us that Iris is amazing or whatever. Felt more like shameless plugging than a genuine friendship, but that's just me.
On a rare occasion Dawn would bring up being a Coordinator or Contests, but usually it was generic shit like "Piplup pay attention to this battle, we might learn some valuable contest stuff from it!" that really went nowhere. And of course, Dawn had no new outfit whatsoever. Understandably the Platinum outfit wouldn't have been appropriate given the setting of the area for the set of episodes Dawn was in, but they couldn't even bother to put effort into making an original outfit for Dawn like they did with Misty. Then again, if the writers couldn't be bothered to even make Dawn's off-screen story consistent and sensible, then I suspected they wouldn't be inclined to put any effort into brainstorming a new idea for an outfit Dawn could wear during her cameo. Hell, they at least did that much for Misty... and even May, remember that kickass gypsy garb they had her wearing during the Wallace Cup? That was awesome. No such perks for poor Dawn.
So yeah, May's return was EASILY the best of the three. I'll even be super pretentious and wager that May's cameo will be way better than whenever Iris has hers. :P
Speaking of girl return cameos,i just rewatched them lately so with refreshed memory i have to wander. Is it just me or that two part when Misty came back to release Togetic in Hoenn was kinda rushed?
Even though i liked set up bringing Misty in some special environment, introduction of main villain(Hanson) and story about Togepi taking place in mirage kingdom.
It made it seem like writers crammed too many things in too short period of time. Whole introduction, build up about kidnapping Togepi and rescue mission culminating in evolution would have worked better imo if it was divided in three separate episodes. Potentially even four.
That way we would had more extra screen time to show of more Misty battle abilities and have her bond more with new characters like May. Often people like to point out how this two girls didn't interact much together, but when taken in account how we had so many things happening in only two episodes being mainly centered around Misty and Togepi evolution there wasn't much space left for side things anyway.
I guess at least in 10th anniversary special Misty and May friendship came to expression more having nice bond and memorable moment when May saved here life.
And i can say i enjoyed in Misty interactions with Ash and Brock when coming in Hoenn. They bounced of each other nicely and her friendly teasing radiating with confidence was nice contrast to previous behavior showing how much she grew as person and trainer. She seemed more outgoing and gaily there too with Daisy and rest of drew clearly leaving some influence on her in meantime still being full of spunk but in more mature light. And pulling Brock by ear when flirting over princess Sara was pure classic(best ear pull ever). Only negative thing was Max starting to copy her from there, doing it in lame manner.
While most of her first appearance was focused on Togepi, moments when she did interact with her friends came in unforced manner with great deal of care Ash and Brock expressed when TR took her and her happiness when seeing them again or in goodbye scene giving feeling of friends which know themselves for long time. Not to mention that touching scene when with hard heart she says goodbye to Togepi is real tearjerker staying faithful to characterization and how close bond they build over the years.
I also liked her new outfit, being fresh for change to give her new wardrobe., It never seemed ugly to me, looking nicer than older clothes imo.
-About May cameo like i said before there's not much i can really complain about though. She clicked more than great with Dawn from moment she met her and Dawn fascination over May battle abilities and her achievements was endearing to watch. You can tell they quickly fond common language together being nice to see them establish close bond with May helping Dawn about same problem of lack of self esteem she used to experience at times in past as well.
It was also admirable to watch how much May improved as coordinator ever since she left Ash with team full of evolutions giving much needed muscle to her team. I only wish we got to see more of Venusaur and Wartortle in action being only real disappointment of her appearance.
And finale between Dawn and May was simply epic liking clash between Glaceon and Piplup. Admittedly at first it was jarring for me to see much less experienced coordinator like Dawn defeating May who passed through lot more at that point. But with time i grew to accept that with Dawn victory over there being done for greater cause, serving as testament to her retrieved inner strength(confidence). Not to mention May did battled with least experienced pokemon there.
-As far as Dawn goes what to say. Unfortunate weakness surrounding her character with dependance on contests made job all that much complicated for writers to create plausible way to justify her journey to Unova. Though arguably they tried to portray small visit to Unova as pitstop in journey to Johto to enter another Wallace Cup. Sadly it was known pretty much from start how you can't do much with coordinator in region which doesn't have contests. There are no competitions through which you can move his story forward, bringing up rivals in here would be completely random and writers in reality had hard time in coming up with plausible excuse to justify return of coordinator in here.
However on positive side she had pretty neat interactions with Iris, Cilan and Ash. She battled all three of them, we had nice side rivalry between Piplup and Oshawott and her performance in Junior Cup as frustrating as it may have been for me still provided one heck of a clash between Mamoswine and Dragonite.
So that much i liked.
Its not like i didn't liked Dawn cameo, because i did. But it lacked substance to it not being center of attention like Misty and May were. What im trying to say is how it didn't lead anywhere really, unlike Mays cameo where we aside from update had her play mentor role to Dawn being part of greater purpose by helping current main character to get out of depression and crisis she fell into.
Or Misty's where in first part she got some great character development finally evolving Togepi in Togetic and gave us some interesting update showing how much stronger she became when using Gyarados. As well helping Max about his problems with older sister May helping them to restore relationship during second return.
So i have to say how i liked Misty and May appearance more than Dawn's.
Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 19th January 2013 at 09:49 AM.
May in DP, clearly. It was the most interesting.
Dawn's return was boring; she basically stood there holding Piplup and saying, "These battles are so cool! Who's gonna win, who's gonna win..."
Misty's return was OK, but the plot wasn't so fun, so therefore...
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Misty's. Mainly because between May and Dawn, Misty's return felt like it was the most needed since most of my generation grew up with her.
and simply put because I despise May and Dawn's existence
The Togepi filler doesn't leave fond memories but I loved the other stuff specially in Mirage pokemon special
Originally Posted by Linkara
Misty's cameo was the best for me, except when Togetic had to go :) It was also the only "character return" segment where 4Kids still dubbed
Last edited by fierydestroyerbowser; 7th February 2013 at 08:30 AM.
Misty. I liked her cameo the best. The dub was pretty good. That, or I liked the whole plot of Togepi evolving into a Togetic as well.
May's was good. Interesting plot development and really reflected on her growth as a trainer from being mentored to the mentor, so to speak.
Dawn's was alright as well. Not as good as the others, but it had its moments. Cilan made sure of that! XD.
Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 6th February 2013 at 02:42 PM.
Awesome Pokerap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZQgrtg0uus
1. The Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY (Tentative)
2. The English Dub: 4Kids + TAJ Productions (Seasons 1-5) > 4Kids Entertainment (Seasons 6-8) > DuArt Film and Video (Seasons 11-17) > TAJ Productions (Seasons 9-10)
3. The Manga: RSE > RBY > DPPt > BW > GSC
4. Pokemon: The Origin: Excellent: 95/100.
Dubbed Version: Very Good: 86.3/100.
5. The Movies: OS > AG > DP = BW