Thread: Strongest battler of Ash's friends? Cilan Vs. May Vs. Brock Vs. Misty Vs. Iris, etc.

I think Cilan is quickly becoming one of Ash's strongest companions. He basically teams up with Ash in double battles and in the scans for an upcoming ep he wins while Ash loses.

I never would have thought Cilan would have been showed to be so skilled in battling. His Pokemon are also seemingly strong as seen in their abilities lately.

I really don't know, but I voted for Iris because she's the eigth gym leader in the Unova region, and eigth gym leaders are usually the strongest... so yeah.

Originally Posted by Dark Blueberry

I really don't know, but I voted for Iris because she's the eigth gym leader in the Unova region, and eigth gym leaders are usually the strongest... so yeah.

In the game, not the series.

I really like Brock his style, but with Misty gaining access to Gyrados and her other water pokes i'd say the scale tips in Misty's favor.

Still we haven't seen either battle in ages so it's hard to judge.

Cilan, annoying as he is, is no pushover either. Based on his pokemon i'd say he's even to Misty.

May is definitely a powerhouse and so is Dawn with Togekiss and mamoswine.

Top of the list however i have to put Iris for the simple reason she has Dragonite and Excadrill. Add emolga and she can counter about everything the others can throw at her.

Off course the story has its focus on Iris with the dragon gym battle approaching and with trip failing as a credible rival for Ash i think the writers envision Iris to fill that role. can't get much bigger/stronger than with dragons on your side.

Time will tell though.

Edit: my apologies for the gravedig. I received a like from this topic and assumed new posts had been made recently.

Iris' Dragonite makes her the winner.

Originally Posted by Trainer Gabriel

Iris' Dragonite makes her the winner.

Wouldn't go that far. Dragonite is strong, but hardly invincible. Combined with excadril and emolga Iris can counter most others though.

Brock would be the hardest nut to crack for her though simply because of his type advantage.

Yeah, I can't do much more but to agree with those saying that Iris is the strongest. Emolga, Excadrill and Dragonite are all three very powerful and could togehter probably beat anyone other main cast member. Emolga has its ability to fly and also has some powerful moves as Discharge, Volt Switch and Hidden Power, while Attract also could cause some severe problems for others. She even took out Stephan's Sawk, who definitely is a powerful Pokémon, winning the Clubsplosion all by itself. Not to mention that it also beat a Roselia despite type disadvantage with Emolga not knowing any Flying-type moves. Excadrill is too very strong. It has beaten Georgia's Beartic, Ash's Pikachu, Burgundy's Dewott and a powerful Scolipede, not to mention its 99-victory streak as a Drilbur. The only Pokémon that we've seen it lose to is Motgomery's Throh and Drayden's Haxorus, which we later saw it tie with. And Dragonite... I really don't think I even need to talk about him. I'm pretty sure that if it hadn't gone berserk during its battle with Krookodile but continued listening to Iris, they'd probably have won, and the only Pokémon it would've lost to would be Drayden's Druddigon. Dragonite nearly went toe-to-toe with legendaries, after all.

May is a great battler. She has lots of times proven herself to be a perfectly capable battler, coming up with clever strategies to outsmart her opponents. Her Blaziken is definitely her powerhouse, while I can't say much about her Venusaur as I've barely seen anything from it, and the same goes for Wartortle. Her Beautifly is strong though, so is Munchlax and Glaceon, and Skitty is average too. But, she is still a Coordinator, and while she certainly remains among the top, I wouldn't say that she's as strong as others.

Dawn kinda ties with May. Although seeing how her Mamoswine was beaten up Dragonite despite its huge advantage, I kinda lost my respect for it, even though I never considered it to be strong in the first place. Buneary and Pachirisu are kinda meh, like May's Skitty, Quilava, however, is most definitely a powerful opponent as it was equal to Pikachu in their battle. Togekiss is fine, I guess. It beat Seviper and Yanmega, not much to brag about. Piplup though, despite being horribly annoying, is strong. With moves like Ice Beam, Hydro Pump and Drill Peck, it should be quite a challenge up against nearly any Pokémon. But, I'd still say that Dawn remains inferior to May, even though she might be a slightly better Coordinator May still is stronger.

Misty... Hm, I really don't know where to put here as of now. She's fine, I guess, but she'd surely have an extremely hard time going up against either Dawn or May if not Psyduck comes to the rescue with its random Confusion. Gyarados is definitely her powerhouse, but yet I've seen too little of its strength to judge. Then we have Corsola who has displayed some great battles during the it has been with Misty, but I'm pretty sure that Blaziken, Munchlax, Venusaur, Beautifly, Togekiss and Piplup would be able to beat it. The others in her team are kinda meh, though Staryu has gained my respect, but I have a hard time seeing it or anyone else remaing in Misty's team beating May and Dawn's Pokémon.

Tracey is probably the weakest, but I've barely seen him battle. His Schyter is strong though.

Cilan is a Gym Leader, and both his Crustle and Pansage has lots of times shown that they are powerful Pokémon, especially Crustle. Stunfisk is kinda lameish, unfortunately, as we've never seen it win a real battle, just one that we didn't even get to see. Pansage has beaten Pokémon like Burgundy's Sawsbuck, Flora's Gothorita, a powerful Basculin (in water, too) and a Braviary and Drilbur in a Tag Battle alongside Ash's Unfezant. It has lost quite a few battles too, but overall I'd say it's pretty strong. Crustle has nearly lost every battle it has participated in, despite two. It beat Burgundy's Dewott, Trip's Gurdurr, Bianca's Escavalier, Juniper's Accelgor, Skyla's Unfezant and Swoobat, and has only lost to Trip's über Serperior and Skyla's Swanna (after taking out two other Pokémon of Skyla's). Crustle is a beast, and could just be one of the most powerful Pokémon ever in the main cast.

Brock was once a Gym Leader, only that is saying a lot. And with Pokémon like Croagunk, Crobat and Steelix in his team most of the main cast members would have a hard time beating him. Steelix has proved itself to be a formidable opponent, beating two top-notch Pokémon as Aggron and Charizard along with Ash's Donphan. Crobat barely got to battle any, but being in its evolved form I'd say it's rather obvious that it's strong. Croagunk, however, has countless times displayed massive strength, even giving Pokémon like Paul's Torterra and Saturn's Toxicroak a hard time, he could just be Brock's strongest Pokémon. Even Sudowoodo and Marhstomp has a couple of times proving themselves to be formidable Pokémon too, with Marhstomp nearly defeating Eevee in a Contest Battle and Sudowoodo having moves like Hammer Arm and Double Edge in its possession. Even Chansey is strong, but unfortunately we barely got to see it battle, but seeing the awesome strength that Happiny had Chansey definitely must be even stronger.
Brock has many powerful Pokémon, and he probably is the strongest out of the male companions.


So, if I was to rank them all, it'd probably go as this;

1. Iris
2. Brock
3. May
4. Dawn
5. Cilan
6. Misty
7. Tracey

Right now? Judging by their achievements, skills and positions its a tie between May and Misty for me.

May: showed to be formidable trainer collecting quite impressive arseanal of pokemon. When you take a look at her Venusaur, Blaziken who has been longest lived and most experienced member on her team, Wartortle or gracious Glaceon you can say she has diverse and well balanced team. Granted she didn't battled much in real trainer battles which could represent handicap for coordinator in those kind of matches, but she showed impressive skill and innovative approach in combing techniques to bring surprise over opponent(such as Psychic power up or focus ball) in contest battling rounds, which could could bring her an edge over other opponents.

Misty: because she showed to hide great potential being one of most competent trainers Ash traveled with. She maybe doesn't have so many evolutions, but that doesn't matter much because strength is measured through pokemon spirit and experu'ience and not size. When taking in account fierce Gyarados, versatile Corsola or Staryu, strong Politoad, full of potential Starmie or Psyduck etc you know she has powerful and well balanced team which can give hard time to any opponent. As trainer she displayed wide amount of knowledge being skilled trainer which knows how to turn unfavorable position in her favor and establish strong bond with pokemon. As she showed through battles, having several notable achievements doing well in big tournaments she entered and being one of few which weren't rookies when meeting Ash beating him.
Not to mention she probably trains and battle a lot as gym leader giving her lot of battling experience.

Granted as mono trainer this would put her at disadvantage against more diverse teams, but in nutshell it doesn't matter if you have evolved or unevolved pokemon, nor how many different types you have. What counts is how skilled trainer is, how strong his pokemon are and if they posses lot of battling spirit. And Misty as trainer and several pokemon like Staryu, Politoad or Corsola definitely proved to have such attributes proving themselves to several trainers and competitions they entered, with desire to become strongest water trainer(water master)serving as catalyst which push them forward invoking desire to break her limits and constantly advance forward. Just fact of being gym leader at 10 is remarkable already in itself with not everyone being able to hold such position at such young age.

E4 members all use one type and they are among best trainers in world, most gym leaders use one type, even some champions like Wallace. So its not like mono trainer cannot be formidable force.

Now some are probably surprised why Brock isn't put on top of my list and ill come to that.

Brock: Lot of time people refer to Brock gym leader status in past as evidence of his strength, but as time goes on if you don't maintain your battling skills or continue to train sooner or later tooth of time will start to take its toll eroding battling abilities of your pokemon and trainer itself. Steelix, Crobat, Ludicolo, Marshtamp, Croagunk etc are impressive collection of pokemon on paper, but thats where this stops. In practice Brock battling skills got rusty a lot over the years with time taking its toll. Which easy loses against inspector Joy in DP special, and against some other trainers only serving as confirmation to that.

Having evolved pokemon means nothing if they don't have much battling experience with trainer not training them enough nor working on his own skills. Ever since he lft gym and went on journey to became breeder he battled so rarely that only Max and Tracey are less passive in that aspect than he is. Having evolved powerhouses hardly means much,if trainer itself isnt in optimal form. For same reason Jessie and James failed miserably whenever they got stronger pokemon. Like Charizard,Blastoise and Venusaur in Battle park,Aggron and Charizard in BF etc.

If we were basing someone strength on diversity and raw strength Brock would be among top choices, but since having just tool and lacking skill isn't enough i wouldn't be objective if i put him at top.

Iris: As far as Iris goes having one or two strong pokemon doesn't make you stronger than others. I will admit how she has knowledge, knows quite a bit about type advantage and strategy and revelation of entering tournaments scoring 99 wins with Excadrill long before Ash even started journey, definitely shows she isn't some easy picking and nothing to underestimate. Especially after her performance against Drayden.

But when you take a look on one hand at strong Excadrill and semi reliable Dragonite which won most of battles so far through his own strength, rather than trainer guidance, relatively weak Axew and unreliable Emolga it would be unfair from my side to put her at peak of pyramid when evaluating skills from everyone of Ash friends. She has potential and talent being among stronger ones, but when comparing her skills with May or Misty's way i see it they displayed more creativity and skill when put under pressure in crisis situations than she did so far. In my opinion anyway.

Dawn: made big improvement as coordinator knowing how to utilize well her pokemon and develop creative strategy with her achievements in contests almost winning Grand Festival on first try and being recognized by several trainers serving as testament to that. However unlike others she has less experience in real trainer battles which are more focused on raw strength and battling and less on combining creative techniques, not being something to write home about. She is without doubt strong coordinator, but as battler i don't think she could be put at top. Out of pokemon they have been portrayed lik weird mix varying greatly from each other in strength and battling virtues. Currently Mamoswine, Togekiss and Piplup are probably her strongest pokemon, though Quilava is nothing to scoof at either. Buneary and Pachirisu are ok, but not exactly her strongest team members.

She is at place which i call golden middle in my book not being bad, but extraordinary either.

Cilan: is so so with me. He already proved to have competence and knowledge as trainer using smart strategy to outsmart his opponents and change weakness of his pokemon in their strength. This can be noticed when Dwebble defeated Trip , or when his Crustle defeated Skyla and through good combination of attacks. On paper team formed from only Panpour, Crustle and Stunfisk doesn't look very impressive in comparison to some other trainers though,and he can easily lose himself under pressure sometimes as match against Slyla showed so fo, but on bright side Cilan makes up for lack of raw strength through calculated strategy making it even hard to determine where to put him. Since he never showed much his true potential and what he can really do when giving out max.

Tracey: its unfortunate but Tracey definitely gets last place. His old and wear out Scyther which quickly gets tired isn't exactly something to brag about and Venonat or Marill which rarely battle aren't much better either. He definitely has least of battling experience out of all Ash traveling companions never being much of battler nor doing something notable to warrant putting him st higher position.

So from strongest to weakest here is what i think:
1. May
2. Misty
3. Iris
4. Cilan
5. Brock
6. Dawn
7. Tracey(sorry Tracey but it was to expect)

dawn feels left out. But anyone thinking may or misty can even come close to beating godnite, then the excadrill with over 100 wins and emolga after that is deluded.

Originally Posted by pokemonsquared

dawn feels left out. But anyone thinking may or misty can even come close to beating godnite, then the excadrill with over 100 wins and emolga after that is deluded.

I actually think they can. Dragonite was always overrated as pokemon imo not being some "invincible battle ready machine". Out of Misty and May pokemon im inclined to think how Blaziken or Gyarados would be equal in terms of strength. Blaziken is May most experienced pokemon and with arsenal of several powerful moves like blazekick, firespin and especially overheat i could see him giving Dragonite hard time. Same applies to Gyarados which managed to blast away all three Tentacruels with simple hyperbeam if i recall correctly from hosos and since most water types can lean ice beam could give him an edge in battle.

Dragonite is strong without doubt, but hes not invincible and in pokemon battle strategy, determination and trainer skills play most important role. You can have whole team full of powerful fully evolved pokemon and still lose to un evolved forms if opponent on other side has more battling experience and better strategy. And skill wise i don't think others are falling behind Iris who didn't showed some extraordinary battling abilities during battles with dragon who did majority of work on his own.

In three on three match against Iris i think it could be anyone game when facing May and Misty. Dawn and Cilan in skill aren't much behind either and Brock is delicate case. Team wise he has several powerful pokemon but since he rarely battles and trains pokemon anymore, his battling skills aren't as sharp as they used to be. So im not sure where he really stands right now.

May and it's not even close, don't know why anyone mentioned iris, she's a weak trainer with strong pokemon

Originally Posted by Chaotic Buizel

May and it's not even close, don't know why anyone mentioned iris, she's a weak trainer with strong pokemon

If that'd be the case, then how come that Excadrill is so powerful? Iris was the one who raised it all the way up, after all. And she wouldn't have gained Dragonite's respect either if it wasn't for the fact that he saw something in her.

If Mamoswine, one of Dawn's strongest Pokémon, who also had a 4x advantage against Dragonite, couldn't beat it I'd say that neither Blaziken or Gyarados would be able to do so either. Iris possess three strong Pokémon while only one in her team is still weak. Having one or two strong Pokémon doesn't make the trainer herself strong if she has around 6+ Pokémon and with the rest of them being just average, but if she has four Pokémon, with three of them being strong battlers, then naturally the trainer herself is strong too. It being fair is a completely other question though, as Iris received Dragonite when it already was a powerhouse.

Originally Posted by Chiplet

If that'd be the case, then how come that Excadrill is so powerful? Iris was the one who raised it all the way up, after all. And she wouldn't have gained Dragonite's respect either if it wasn't for the fact that he saw something in her.

If Mamoswine, one of Dawn's strongest Pokémon, who also had a 4x advantage against Dragonite, couldn't beat it I'd say that neither Blaziken or Gyarados would be able to do so either. Iris possess three strong Pokémon while only one in her team is still weak. Having one or two strong Pokémon doesn't make the trainer herself strong if she has around 6+ Pokémon and with the rest of them being just average, but if she has four Pokémon, with three of them being strong battlers, then naturally the trainer herself is strong too. It being fair is a completely other question though, as Iris received Dragonite when it already was a powerhouse.

That's not exactly same though. Dawn Mamoswine may have been her strongest pokemon but difference between her and May or Misty is that they are more experienced in trainer battles, which necessitate more raw and straightforward approach. Approach which Iris Dragonite tend to use.
More so Misty since she learned many things during travels and often train and battle at gym with Corsola increase in resistance as commented when battling Delcatty and pokemon learning new attacks like Gyarados proving that. However while May didn't participated in many trainer battles she was by great deal influenced by Ash which reflected her contest style battling more like trainer than coordinator in contest duel rounds.

Dawn on other hand was always more focused on appeal aspect and how to utilize attacks in more flashing manner being often called out on that by rivals like Ursula. So logically if other two have more experience in real, trainer battles relying more on raw strength its not farfetched to presume how Blaziken and Gyarados might be stronger than Mamoswine was.

In comparison if May Blaziken managed to be on pair with Ash Sceptile who was capable of escaping powerful dark void from legendary defeating Darkrai being probably stronger than Krookodile, than this serves as pretty good indication to me how it might have chance to defeat Dragonite as well. Especially if overheat comes into play increasing his strength by huge portion.

Same applies to Gyarados which is one of strongest water pokemon, and pokemon in general possessing huge raw strength and after seeing him defeating three Tentacruel with one attack like they were jokes along with knocking down Shedinja with one attack i wouldn't rule out completely chance that it might have possibility to be on pair with Dragonite having dragon characteristics to extent. More so if he learned ice techniques in meantime, which is accessible to most water types out there.
Even though its not same i remember from third movie when her Staryu was on pair with Molly Mantine which was much stronger than normal one because of Unown, yet Staryu resisted whirlpool and bubble beam with his tackle being of equal strength as Mantine takedown. So if he was able to resist powered up pokemon reflecting its trainer skills having bigger success than any of Brock pokemon, Gyarados in comparison must be infinitely stronger.

So while nothing is for certain, i believe this two pokemon might have chance to stand up to Dragonite depending on strategy and techniques each side would use during course of battle.

Originally Posted by Chaotic Buizel

May and it's not even close, don't know why anyone mentioned iris, she's a weak trainer with strong pokemon

May is weak compared to iris. Dragonite alone can take down every member of her team.

Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132

Dawn on other hand was always more focused on appeal aspect and how to utilize attacks in more flashing manner being often called out on that by rivals like Ursula. So logically if other two have more experience in real, trainer battles relying more on raw strength its not farfetched to presume how Blaziken and Gyarados might be stronger than Mamoswine was.

That's just a very bad excuse, especially with the fact that type wise both Gyarados and Blaziken would have a disadvantage against Dragonite. Also, what part in that battle did Dawn actually use a Contest or ''appeal'' move?

Originally Posted by Chiplet

That's just a very bad excuse, especially with the fact that type wise both Gyarados and Blaziken would have a disadvantage against Dragonite. Also, what part in that battle did Dawn actually use a Contest or ''appeal'' move?

That can work both ways, because Dragonite had type disadvantage against Mamoswine but it didn't stopped him from winning.
And im not sure how its bad excuse when its obvious how May and Misty are more familiar with real, trainer battles than Dawn was making it a given how their pokemon would be more focused on raw strength and strategy we see from trainers in general.
We can see that when Ash and Drayden faced Iris and Dragonite using different strategy and combination of attacks than Dawn prior to that did, having higher success as result of that.

Especially when taking in account their fighting abilities with Gyarados and Blaziken showing more strength and resistance in battles from what i saw than Mamoswine did. Something i counted in examples which were ignored.