Thread: Strongest battler of Ash's friends? Cilan Vs. May Vs. Brock Vs. Misty Vs. Iris, etc.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

In terms of anime context, Iris was shown getting 99 wins in the past and just defeated Ash's Pikachu in a tournament. Whether people like it or not, Iris could be a contender for one of the strongest.

What other character ever did that?

It should be noticed that iris used an almost perfect counter against Pikachu. The tourney was also set for some of ash's newer captures to grab some screen time while showing progress that Ash is yet to grow in that region.

To this day i think brock is severely underestimated.

Cilan and Iris seem like they could be the strongest of Ash's friends by series end. Cilan seems more impressive than Brock overall, and Iris's status of being the 8th Gym leader's apprentice would probably make her one of the stronger ones. It's already affecting how she is being written.

Originally Posted by Masurao

Cilan and Iris seem like they could be the strongest of Ash's friends by series end. Cilan seems more impressive than Brock overall, and Iris's status of being the 8th Gym leader's apprentice would probably make her one of the stronger ones. It's already affecting how she is being written.

To be fair we never got a chance to see Brock much in action.He rarely battled never being used to its full potential but from what h showed he wasnt joke either.This can be noticed when he almost win whole contest in Battle Frontier or when he did fairly well in tag battle tournament from DP.Though admittedly because of his inactivity in battling being more concerned about raising his pokemon keeping them in good shape as breeder his skills as trainer got rusty.

About Iris i agree she showed pretty big potential as trainer already having rich experience and background thanks to all that training and battling she had with Excadrill at younger age but im not sure if it plays much difference in anime if someone is 8th or earlier gym leader.We already saw in some regions how some earlier gym leaders gave more problems to Ash than later gyms did with leaders in anime being more or less evenly strong compared to games where exist strict order from weakest to strongest.

In my opinion:
Judging by May last appearance having several evolved pokemon(like Venusaur or Glaceon) doing big improvement as coordinator,Misty taming Gyarados improving her skills as trainer with several of pokemon having lot of battling spirit(Staryu,Politoad) i would say they can be considered among strongest Ash traveling companions so far.
Dawn while i dont think is as strong like above examples are was pretty good too with ending as runner up in GF(regardless of competition)being pretty big achievement.

While for Brock he isnt something to scoof at either judging by his pokemon team having strong Stelix,Foretress or Ludicolo on his side.But since he didnt battled much being little rusty i cant say he is exactly among top.

While Iris showed to be prominent battler judging by what others showed at this moment i still think most of other ash friends are currently stronger.Sure she beat Ash(just like Brock and Misty did) but honestly she also had huge type advantage as well Pikachu not being at full power because of usual reset at start of each region.
At end of Unova she might be one of strongest but for time being and what we got so far i dont see it that way.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

In terms of anime context, Iris was shown getting 99 wins in the past and just defeated Ash's Pikachu in a tournament. Whether people like it or not, Iris could be a contender for one of the strongest.

What other character ever did that?

Akira? I seriously can't see what makes it so special to you.

Originally Posted by Andre27

To this day i think brock is severely underestimated.

He is, but you can't blame us. The writers would hardly ever let us see him battle to gauge his true strength.

Probably doesn't help matters he kind of gave up on battling very early into the anime. He is probably up there...I guess.

Misty was really tough but so was Dawn (i mean...she challenged Mayline^_^). ;)

Misty had a lot of potensial though. It only makes sense too...(sides her sisters i think... she liked ash*not saying this proves pokeshipping or anything*, soo that too mighta motivated her. she was pretty strong willed, to me anyways, soo she got my vote xD)


But Dawn was cool :3

And yeah Brock does seem underestamated...

I'll vote Misty, always have always will. People seem to forget that MAY AND DAWN are coordinators. They do not battle on a regular basis, if this included contests then yes, but I'm sure it's been pretty well established that contest battles and regular battles were different. It's absolutely true that May and Dawn have battled outside of contests, but since it's not their profession, I don't even acknowledge that they are included in the polls.

If May didn't have a Blaziken or Venesaur and Dawn didn't have Mamoswine or Togekiss, this would have been a whole different ball game. I love them both as characters, but damn, they weren't these expert battlers outside of contest battles, or really inside as well, they still had a lot more growing to do.

Remember, you need to a reason for your choice in Contest threads.

Originally Posted by Catwoman

I'll vote Misty, always have always will. People seem to forget that MAY AND DAWN are coordinators. They do not battle on a regular basis, if this included contests then yes, but I'm sure it's been pretty well established that contest battles and regular battles were different. It's absolutely true that May and Dawn have battled outside of contests, but since it's not their profession, I don't even acknowledge that they are included in the polls.

Well what signs of Misty being a strong battler have there been in the anime? She's never really battled that tough opponents in the show, mostly characters around her age or non-trainers. Her strongest pokemon was probably her Politioed, at least while she was a main character.

As for being a coordinator, it means nothing, since everytime they battled outside of contests, they showed they were the same level of battle skill as they were inside contests.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Well what signs of Misty being a strong battler have there been in the anime? She's never really battled that tough opponents in the show, mostly characters around her age or non-trainers. Her strongest pokemon was probably her Politioed, at least while she was a main character.

Misty has defeated Sakura(yes, I am aware that she lost to her as well later on, but Ash lost to Paul and got a rematch), she beat Ash, she did good against Molly, she's beaten Hanson, she's beaton Joe(School of Hard Knocks), she's beaten James with her Goldeen for help at that. To me, Misty's battle skills are all about quality not quantity. Yes, she didn't battle as much as Ash(of course not), but in terms of May and Dawn, her battles meant much more because they were relevant, relevant to a goal whether it be a badge, a tournament advancement, or even a Pokemon(Totodile)

In heinsight(spelling?) Misty may not look like she did much on paper, but when you put into perspective that given time period the show was airing, what type of show it was back then, how Misty was courageous enough to stick with one type despite the odds, and how much the show has changed, she's the best battler in my book. With Iris then Dent being close second and thirds.

It's not me being biased, it's being true, let alone Misty's time away from the show.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

As for being a coordinator, it means nothing, since everytime they battled outside of contests, they showed they were the same level of battle skill as they were inside contests.

But those battlers were not relevant to much and didn't really mean much in terms of getting stronger for their goal. I love May and Dawn, but they CLEARY aren't battlers, they are coordinators. If May left the show with her AG team before Munchlax, and Dawn with her BW team before the Aipom-Buizel trade they would not be considered all that.

Blaziken, Venesaur, Mamoswine, and Togekiss are all know as powerful pokemon, therefore, people relate May and Dawn as powerful trainers.

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Misty has defeated Sakura(yes, I am aware that she lost to her as well later on, but Ash lost to Paul and got a rematch), she beat Ash, she did good against Molly, she's beaten Hanson, she's beaton Joe(School of Hard Knocks), she's beaten James with her Goldeen for help at that. To me, Misty's battle skills are all about quality not quantity. Yes, she didn't battle as much as Ash(of course not), but in terms of May and Dawn, her battles meant much more because they were relevant, relevant to a goal whether it be a badge, a tournament advancement, or even a Pokemon(Totodile)

- Sakura was a beginning trainer in that Johto ep, she didn't even start her journey yet. Beating a beginning trainer isn't much of an accomplishment.

- She beat Ash because Psyduck got a headache. It wasn't even done legit like the way Excadrill beat Pikachu.

- The Hanson thing wasn't even a real battle, Gyarados just used flamethrower which Shedinja go down to because it only has 1HP.

- As for her few Whirl Cup wins, they were fine.

In heinsight(spelling?) Misty may not look like she did much on paper, but when you put into perspective that given time period the show was airing, what type of show it was back then, how Misty was courageous enough to stick with one type despite the odds, and how much the show has changed, she's the best battler in my book. With Iris then Dent being close second and thirds.

Misty only battled with one type, but very rarely did that mean anything since her major battles were against others with water pokemon, like Marina or the Whirl cup matches.

But those battlers were not relevant to much and didn't really mean much in terms of getting stronger for their goal. I love May and Dawn, but they CLEARY aren't battlers, they are coordinators. If May left the show with her AG team before Munchlax, and Dawn with her BW team before the Aipom-Buizel trade they would not be considered all that.

I don't think the number of evolutions has anything to do with how strong a trainer is. I am not even thinking about evolutions, I am just thinking about the battles we've seen int he show. Seems to me you're using the coordinator excuse as a way to downplay stuff, which is bizarre, since you know good and well their battles inside and outside of contests were the same.

This is why I think Misty isn't one of the strongest battlers.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Well what signs of Misty being a strong battler have there been in the anime? She's never really battled that tough opponents in the show, mostly characters around her age or non-trainers. Her strongest pokemon was probably her Politioed, at least while she was a main character.

If i remember correctly she was able to win whole tournament and win doll set,beat Andras who was champion of Seaking contest for years showing hr skills both in fishing and battling.She managed to com top 8 in Whirl Cup bating Harrison,Ash and giving Trinity run for its money with Corsola defeating Gyarados with one blow.

She also beat gym leader Dorian faring better than Ash did against him,managed to control wild Golduck defeating Marina with it,gave run for its money to Molly and her imaginary powered up by Unknown pokemon etc.That has to count for something.

She also established close connection with her pokemon like Staryu or Poliwhirl helping him to get over his flaws and evolve all the way to Politoad.

She also manage to tame Gyarados having it learn flamethrower increasing his efficiency against certain types.
During her run Misty was recognized by several trainers out there as promising and good battler who has potential with her pokemon like Staryu,Poliwhirl or Corsola showing to have lot of fighting spirit along with Misty having strong competitive streak inside her.

When she was in unfavorable situations she showed ability to adapt to any situation taking advantage out of it and rightfully winning which are qualities of strong trainer.That can be noticed when she entered tournament in Kanto not having much experience when using other types and still manage to use well Bulbasaur,Vulpix and Pikachu going all the way to top.She is primarily water trainer and yet she proved being able to battle just as good with other types which says something.

For that reason alone and many others i think Misty can be considered as one of strongest battlers among Ash friends.

As for being a coordinator, it means nothing, since everytime they battled outside of contests, they showed they were the same level of battle skill as they were inside contests.

Not really,i watched recently some of their battles and both May and Dawn had better record in contest battles as opposite to trainer battles.They rarely battled against other trainers and when thy did most of time they lost..

And Catwoman has a point,they might be more experienced as coordinators but when it comes to trainer battles Misty showed to have more experience as regular trainer.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

- Sakura was a beginning trainer in that Johto ep, she didn't even start her journey yet. Beating a beginning trainer isn't much of an accomplishment.

She was beginner when she had Eevee,but second time Misty met her she done some training having already Espeon by that time.

- She beat Ash because Psyduck got a headache. It wasn't even done legit like the way Excadrill beat Pikachu.

She prior to that beat Ash Totodile and even if Psyduck didnt popped out of ball stronger battler like Corsola would most likely beat Kingler.

- The Hanson thing wasn't even a real battle, Gyarados just used flamethrower which Shedinja go down to because it only has 1HP.

Anime often doesnt follow game canon and we already witnessed Shedinja power in those specials.Fact that Misty trained Gyarados so well having learn fire attacks shows how she is strong battler.Gyarados also managed to beat all three Tentacruels in hosos.

Misty only battled with one type, but very rarely did that mean anything since her major battles were against others with water pokemon, like Marina or the Whirl cup matches.

And why battling other water trainers doesnt count as notable success?Trinity,Dorian,Marina etc were all strong battlers.Some of strongst trainers in world are water trainers like Wallace or Lorelei.

When battling other one type trainers both competitors are at same disadvantage with battles being just as hard like they are when battling different types.When no one has type advantage over another and battling in water environment trainer has to adapt to all kind of situations using his pokemon to full potential and use right kind of strategy to gain upper hand in duel.

Which Misty was able to do when battling Harrison taking advantage of Quilfish weakness,Dorian adapting quickly to underwater battling unlike it was case with Ash,Trinity taking advantage of Corsola speed and effect of surprise etc.Sometimes battles of one type can be more intensive and tough than regular battles.

Other than Brock, isn't Iris the only other traveling companion to beat him in a battle where it didn't seem flukey?

Your mileage may vary with Misty's victory over him. But so far, Brock and Iris are the only one's to ever beat him in a straight up battle where it didn't seem accidental. The former having less of an impact because Ash was literally just starting his journey.

Iris is, by far the most hyped companion we've ever had in this show.

Originally Posted by Masurao

Other than Brock, isn't Iris the only other traveling companion to beat him in a battle where it didn't seem flukey? Iris is, by far the most hyped companion we've ever had in this show.

Your mileage may vary with Misty's victory over him. But so far, Brock and Iris are the only one's to ever beat him in a straight up battle where it didn't seem accidental.

If we are talking about whole match than yes,but in individual battles Misty beat Ash Butterfree with Staryu and Totodile with Poliwirl in legit way.And i fail to see why Psyduck win over Kingler cant be considered legit?

Ash made mistake of being stupid enough to forget about Psyduck headache using worst possible strategy with Kingler.Misty didnt,she only took advantage out of situation rightfully winning.

In that battle she showed to be more skillful than Ash was tbh.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

- Sakura was a beginning trainer in that Johto ep, she didn't even start her journey yet. Beating a beginning trainer isn't much of an accomplishment.

- She beat Ash because Psyduck got a headache. It wasn't even done legit like the way Excadrill beat Pikachu.

- The Hanson thing wasn't even a real battle, Gyarados just used flamethrower which Shedinja go down to because it only has 1HP.

I love how people keep using Psyduck got a headache as an excuse, because Lord Knows Ash didnt deserve to be in the League in Kanto with all those cheap victories. Also,Misty's Poliwhirl defeated Ash's Totodile, which is hilarious, because Ash apparently got the bad end of the deal of their battle for Totodile. Ash faces newbies all the time, because he always starts fresh, so I disagree with that logic as well.

You're right, Hanson wasn't a battle, because Misty destroyed that dude. The very fact that Gyrados knew Flamethrower, and the fact that it showed Misty got over her fears of Gyrados showed her strength as a battler, IMO.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

- Misty only battled with one type, but very rarely did that mean anything since her major battles were against others with water pokemon, like Marina or the Whirl cup matches.

Let's not forget about Ash, Giselle, and Joe. IMO, Misty deserves a lot of credit, because she was one in a millon in terms of choice of goals. Her battle skills with just water types makes her the best battler because for her to just to raise one type, that deserves credit for commitment alone.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

- I don't think the number of evolutions has anything to do with how strong a trainer is. I am not even thinking about evolutions, I am just thinking about the battles we've seen int he show. Seems to me you're using the coordinator excuse as a way to downplay stuff, which is bizarre, since you know good and well their battles inside and outside of contests were the same.

Oh I'm not using the contest factor as a downplay at all, I'm just stating the facts. If May and Dawn were battlers, then May would have won the Kanto Grand Festival for using Ash's battle strategy against Soledad, and Dawn would have flunked out of the Sinnoh Grand Festival.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

- This is why I think Misty isn't one of the strongest battlers.

Well, we'll just going to have to agree to disagree. For the amount of time Misty was given on the show, and the times that were shown, she sure was to me.