Thread: Strongest battler of Ash's friends? Cilan Vs. May Vs. Brock Vs. Misty Vs. Iris, etc.

Iris I guess, I mean she had a 99-win streak with just a drilbur 0_0 that says alot. She did some harsh training in the mountains which shows her skills in training Pokemon and she fought Drilbur without any Pokemon...though all this happened when she was a child. I don't think she is like this right now but since Excadrill is obeying her again I can see her reverting to her kid self again.

I'd say either Misty or May, but I think Iris will surpass them both by the time BW ends.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Care to provide any examples? Dawn's team never gave me the impression they're any particularly stronger than May's. Some of them are equal, while others seem roughly the same or less. Even Dawn's Mamoswine, which was supposed to be a powerhouse, never really gave that impression and just kind of slouched around in Contests, even being played the fool in the Ursula matches.



She came up with a spinning dodge and one other technique, this is hardly ground breaking. Dawn already got beat pretty badly by Maylene, and I seriously doubt she could beat any of the other Sinnoh Gym leaders, even with the team she has now.



What does being whiny (which isn't even true), have to do with anything? Likewise, you're actually telling me Dawn getting into the finals of a Grand Festival that was purposely made easy for her is her being stronger? Really?

Dawn literally breezed through her Grand Festival against no truly strong opponents. Her only on-screen wins is a cheap match against Ursula and a 30 second battle where she fights Jessie of all people in the semi-finals. How sad is it that Dawn's Grand Festival was structured so poorly that she had no struggles in it at all?

Dawn didn't get into the finals because she was truly skilled (she also would have definitely lost against Nando if she battled him), she only got there because the writers knew they were axing the Contests from the anime and wanted a main character to hit the finals. Dawn's GF standing was because she battled a bunch of rookies, not because she was strong.

And then there's that cheapass Togekiss, which also ruined the Zoey match.

One counter shield is ground breaking. Two I have not seen May fight except for tr and anyone can beat them. Three Dawn was with Ash when he was not stupid and didn't same "type smype" every five minutes and since Ash influences them a lot Dawn would be stronger cause Ash was stronger in DP due to being pushed harder and you know having a real rival. So May would not care about advantages and Dawn would use variations in their fight causing Dawn to win hands down. Four evolution is not as good in the show as it is in the games and that was the evidence for May being strong. In conclusion your argument for Dawn not being that strong makes sense but that doesn't mean May is stronger.

I guess the way her contest battles were shown in AG were depicted more like a regular Pokemon battle without those flashy sparkles etc. I would say Dawn and May are moreso the same battle-wise but May's Pokemon team does give her alittle advantage if she went against Dawn.

Based on the performance in big tournaments(result of Whirlpool cup, Grand Festivals, Wallace cup etc), I'd have to say Dawn (Assuming that May hasn't won Johto GF). You have to do well in big competions, if you're a strong battler right?

Based on on-screen development(Training sessions, Battles with Rockets and exhibition matches with other trainers) : Dawn/May

Based on Pokemon Team: May

Based on Off-screen development: Misty/Cilan

Just because they evolved doesn't mean they are good. Pikachu proves this.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Care to provide any examples? Dawn's team never gave me the impression they're any particularly stronger than May's. Some of them are equal, while others seem roughly the same or less. Even Dawn's Mamoswine, which was supposed to be a powerhouse, never really gave that impression and just kind of slouched around in Contests, even being played the fool in the Ursula matches.



She came up with a spinning dodge and one other technique, this is hardly ground breaking. Dawn already got beat pretty badly by Maylene, and I seriously doubt she could beat any of the other Sinnoh Gym leaders, even with the team she has now.



What does being whiny (which isn't even true), have to do with anything? Likewise, you're actually telling me Dawn getting into the finals of a Grand Festival that was purposely made easy for her is her being stronger? Really?

Dawn literally breezed through her Grand Festival against no truly strong opponents. Her only on-screen wins is a cheap match against Ursula and a 30 second battle where she fights Jessie of all people in the semi-finals. How sad is it that Dawn's Grand Festival was structured so poorly that she had no struggles in it at all?

Dawn didn't get into the finals because she was truly skilled (she also would have definitely lost against Nando if she battled him), she only got there because the writers knew they were axing the Contests from the anime and wanted a main character to hit the finals. Dawn's GF standing was because she battled a bunch of rookies, not because she was strong.

And then there's that cheapass Togekiss, which also ruined the Zoey match.

First: Dawn did beat May. Don't give me any excuse. May lost in the Wallace Cup finals. Secondly: Mamswine was a Gible. It was only utilized correctly too late. Ash's Charizard was the same kind of story with the whole disobedience card, and the writers gave it a second season to fix its attitude. Mamoswine did pick up with completing two of Dawn's best combos.

Second:May couldn't beat any Gym Leaders either. If she can't KO a Piplup, that is.

Third: I agree with you on the Togekiss bit. It was a cheap idea for what reason I'm not sure. I guess to play Gallade v. Togekiss, for that purpose.

Fourth:The Nando thing is base. If it happened, Dawn would have adapted. Nando wasn't meant to win anything, as proven with his loss to Ash in the first round later on. He would have lost to Dawn had the writers decided it.

Fifth: Ursula's match was hardly cheap. That was Dawn's battle mirroring Ash's defeat of Paul. Ursula was tough, and almost a winner. It made sense that her Pokemon fainted, seeing as how fragile they were. That was Dawn's biggest obstacle to cross.

Originally Posted by Torterrius

First: Dawn did beat May. Don't give me any excuse. May lost in the Wallace Cup finals.

True, but since when did beating a character once mean you're stronger than them? This is quite possibly the worst argument you can put forth, as characters win and lose against each other all the time. I can very well say May beat Zoey at the Wallace Cup and Dawn never beat Zoey, so does this prove May is stronger than Zoey, and thus Dawn by correlation? Probably not, I'd say they're roughly equals.

Second:May couldn't beat any Gym Leaders either.

When we were back in Hoenn, I agree May wasn't strong enough at the time. However now she should be able to, perhaps not the really strong ones though.

If she can't KO a Piplup, that is.

What kind of argument is this? We've seen May KO tons of evolved Pokemon in battle before. Once again, losing to a character once doesn't mean said character cannot be beaten. This is a ridiculous assumption.

Fourth:The Nando thing is base. If it happened, Dawn would have adapted. Nando wasn't meant to win anything, as proven with his loss to Ash in the first round later on. He would have lost to Dawn had the writers decided it.

No, even Dawn said both Nando and Zoey were above her skill level while watching her match. The writers purposely didn't have Dawn battle Nando because otherwise she would lose to him, and they instead wanted a Dawn Vs. Zoey match.

Fifth: Ursula's match was hardly cheap. That was Dawn's battle mirroring Ash's defeat of Paul. Ursula was tough, and almost a winner. It made sense that her Pokemon fainted, seeing as how fragile they were. That was Dawn's biggest obstacle to cross.

The GF match WAS pretty cheap, their second match instead was much better. As strong as Ursula was, she still lost 3 times in a row to Dawn regardless.

I voted for May.

It just seems like she knows more about battling than the rest of the options. That and her Pokémon actually listen to her, so that means she's a good trainer, at least.

Originally Posted by Alphaphlare

One counter shield is ground breaking. Two I have not seen May fight except for tr and anyone can beat them. Three Dawn was with Ash when he was not stupid and didn't same "type smype" every five minutes and since Ash influences them a lot Dawn would be stronger cause Ash was stronger in DP due to being pushed harder and you know having a real rival. So May would not care about advantages and Dawn would use variations in their fight causing Dawn to win hands down. Four evolution is not as good in the show as it is in the games and that was the evidence for May being strong. In conclusion your argument for Dawn not being that strong makes sense but that doesn't mean May is stronger.

Ash was hardly 'stupid' during AG. In fact, AG was when Ash finally matured and used tactics. So that arguement fails right there. The rest, especially about saying Ash was stronger in DP, is highly debatable.

Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker

Ash was hardly 'stupid' during AG. In fact, AG was when Ash finally matured and used tactics. So that arguement fails right there. The rest, especially about saying Ash was stronger in DP, is highly debatable.

Losing to Drew. I didn't see that. Type advantages and variations. So yeah my point still stands strong

Ash lost to Kenny in DP when Buizel battled Empoleon.

I don't see what difference it makes anyway, the girls watching Ash battle only helps them slightly, it still doesn't work for contests.

I voted Misty. She is a gym leader after all, and I think if she came back now she's whoop May, Dawn, AND Iris.

May does have a stacked team, but I still don't think her battling skills are that great. Dawn I was never impressed with, and I don't know enough about Iris.

Brock never seemed to be very focused on battling so I never thought of him as "strong". I don't hae a clue about Cilan and Tracey... he's just a nice guy ^_^;

Originally Posted by Mooites

I voted Misty. She is a gym leader after all, and I think if she came back now she's whoop May, Dawn, AND Iris.

With what, the same Pokemon she has now? Unless her pokemon did some massive evolving off-screen or she made new captures we don't know about, Misty certainly won't be "whopping" anybody.

I honestly can't think of a single one of Misty's battles where she battled as intently and well as some of the other girls' best battles.

I can't believe how many votes Dawn and May have while Brock, Cilan and Iris have so few....
All right, May has some really bad-ass Pokémon, like Blaziken, Beautifly, Venusaur (though I haven't seen it in battle) and Munchlax, and they are stong and all that, and Ash did tie to her.... Still, that tie were between Blaziken and Sceptile, where Blaziken has the advantage, and Blaziken is May's main Pokémon while Sceptile isn't Ash's main, and if I remember right (please correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I don't really remember....), neither Sceptile or Blaziken were defeated. The battled ended in a draw because of the time limit and the equal points, and Ash isn't really that great in contest battles....
May is powerful, no doubt about it, and I really, really love her, but she surely isn't the strongest battler of Ash's friends.

When it comes to Dawn, naaah....
The only reason she won to May was because of May using her Glaceon, which is her newer Pokémon, while Dawn used her main, Piplup.
Sure, she made it to the final round in the GF, but I never really considered her as a strong trainer.

Brock was a gym leader, and he really has some bad-ass Pokémon, I don't think he'd lose to neither one of these two.
(And the loss to May in BF.... It was a contest battle, and once again the time limit had a touch in it.)

Cilan, though, is a great trainer. All right, he may only have Pansage, Dwebble and Stunfisk, but he's still great at strategies (battle against Burgundy :P) and he also was a gym leader. And he'll get much stronger by the end of BW.

And then there's Iris.... Let me put it like this, she was only a kid, and still she had a 99-win streak.
Excadrill is awesome, her Axew will surely evolve to a Haxorus, and it will certainly be a powerhouse, and I can't say that much about Emolga, yet. But Iris will surely catch more Pokémon, like a Deino.
Yeah, I believe that Iris will be strongest trainer of Ash's friends by the BW end, but she isn't now.

(MY OPINION!!)