CONTEST: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May? - Page 5

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Thread: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

  1. #61
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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    Togepi was powerful pokemon judging by secret abilities, it just happens that he wasn't trained much to allow to develop his abilities becoming more reliable in battles.
    Powerful Pokemon, Secret Abilities = Metronome, calls forth any move in the whole wide world.
    Which isn't that much surprising since back in early days writers policy about baby pokemon was different treating them as harmless and fragile little creatures which aren't capable of battling(something which didn't start to change until end of Johto). When taking in account Togepi joyous nature, it made even less of surprise why it never battled much with one of ways for it to evolve being through happiness. Togepi was in reality first egg pokemon which main cast received, with writers treating it as very rare specie being exclusive for Misty making big deal out of it.
    Togepi was the only baby Pokemon an Ad for GSC.

    [
    I don't really think it is simply offering honest POV. We can see through pulling raft when they escaped from Gyarados, when he tried to get group to north pole, being involved in rescue missions such as pulling group out of sunk ship st. Anne, saving gym leader daughter Mary, destroying TR mechas etc how this pokemon possessed high level of durability and speed.
    I think you're grasping for straws, all of that stuff you listed is the same thing tons of other Pokemon have done. It just reminds me how little Misty's Pokemon did.


    Only battle which got ended with one hit was Staryu vs Tentacruel and Marina Psyduck. Even so if pokemon is powerful enough to defeat someone with single hit i don't see how this in any way demean his value and true strength. On contrair it only shows how strong and well trained he is. Should we than says how every battle Ash, May, Dawn , Iris etc won with single hit should be disregard, just because writers didn't dragged with match longer than it was needed to please our expectations?
    Golduck beat Starmie with one Ice Beam, Tentacruel beat Goldeen with one Poison Sting, Staryu beat Tentacruel with one Swift, Psyduck beat Staryu with one Water Gun rebounded Confusion. The whole battle was a rushed one-hit KO fest.
    Regarding James if we are going to count Ash win over James in pokeringer, or Dawn/May vs Jessie as some kind of achievement, than i don't see why Misty should be exception. Battle between James and Misty for salveyo weed was perfectly legit being required skill and speed to not only clear out smoke screen but send Weezing flying away out of range.
    It wasn't a formal battle and this was one of those "TR can't battle to save their lives!" battles rather than actual one where they seem to have a chance.
    -Regarding mirage pokemon to be fair we can't know for sure , because way battle was interrupted certainly didn't made it seem like Staryu was losing. Not only it break out of whirlpool, bubble beam combo with ease but it was with rapid spin equal in strength with Molly Mantine which was 2x stronger than normal one would be.
    Staryu most likely got wrecked off screen.
    In comparison none of Brock pokemon whether it was Onix, Zuibat or Vulpix lasted that long showing how Misty pokemon are on higher level than his really are.
    Misty's Pokemon were all battered just as easily as Brock's.
    Its quite funny, some people like to claim how Brock was on of strongest trainers traveling with Ash because of his past as gym leader, yet in here Misty clearly showed how she surpassed him in skills being past gym leader as well(which of course people disregard as nothing positive).

    Talking about double standards.
    I'm mostly neutral to every character and I never thought Brock was an overly exceptional trainer in wins, however I did think he was pretty strong at times. Croagunk did do heavy damage to Torterra on its own and beat Saturn's Toxicroak, who are both two very strong Pokemon.

    Doesn't matter, this right there proves how Politoad entered some battles after evolution. And battle against brothers was honestly legit being three on three when Ash and Brock joined, with Misty accepting their challenge in first place.
    Politoed has never been in a formal battle.

    Wake Gyarados was pretty underwhelming to be honest. It was enough about just single volt tackle from Pikachu to knock him down with his move set combined of dragon rage and bite being rather flimsy compared to balanced and versatile choice of attacks Misty's in comparison has whether its protect and whirlpool for defense, or hyperbeam, hydropump or flamethrower for offensive purposes.
    Okay, wait, you're "Championing" Misty's Gyarados but talking down to Wake's as if it's a punk? Dragon Rage and Bite were the only moves we saw in its arsenal and of course Gyarados went down to one Volt Tackle, it's Pikachu and Gyarados in this show have always been portrayed as glass cannons. We never even saw Misty's in a formal battle, yet you can saw it's better based on its moveset?
    Also your making assumptions without proof to back things up. What we know from facts is how three brothers battled Misty with three Tentacruel, how Gyarados was able to repel all their moves and send them in stratosphere by slicing through hydropump with hyper beam. That's a fact.
    Those Tentacruel and trainers were weak, I seriously don't see how anyone can argue otherwise. Yes, it's a fact Gyarados did beat three Tentacruel. I guess it would also be impressive if Politoed beat five Magikarp? And Horsea beat three Caterpie? See how that works?

    Everything else is presumption without proof to back things up, since due to insufficient amount of information we don't know how strong those three trainers were.
    Are you serious? They were pretty much walking Team Rocket reduxes, they were clowns, and they were pretty weak.

    Speaking of colonel Hanson and his Shedinja, just because pokemon in question has low HP doesn't say anything about Hanson skills as trainer. Fact that no one else beside Misty and Gyarados could get over wonder guard being only trainer which figured how to knock it down was only indication of her competence and adaptability as trainer.

    With your statement your trying to imply how Shedinja in general is "pathetic pokemon", and how any achievement Misty pokemon made should be discarded as result of such. Something i can't really agree with.
    If May or Ash had known about Wonder Guard Taillow or Torchic would have sent Shedinja into orbit a long time ago, Misty just so happened to have Gyarados use Flamethrower.

    It got smashed by best student from school Giselle, and only because no one expected that Graveler was trained in such way that it could break through water gun with roll attack. That's not something to scoff at.

    Speaking of other pokemon, they were grass types with water attacks in general not being very effective against them unless pokemon which use them in particular is very strong.

    Additionally as expected writers just started out in beginning of Kanto saga with battles being much less detailed and complex compared to today standards. But just because we experienced lower quality of battles doesn't make pokemon which participated in it weak.
    The point being that Starmie wins against a Weepinbell and Oddish, neither of which even attacks, but gets beaten by Graveler and Pidgeotto. Giselle might have been the best trainer but Pikachu, a less experienced Pokemon than Starmie, managed to prevail against Cubone a few minutes later.

    That's beside the point. You claimed how Horsea never battled, which isn't true.
    Horsea never battled in a formal battle.
    You mean JJM trio loses to everyone? Butch and Cassidy are harder nut to crack showing higher level of skill in battles than Jessie and James did.

    Speaking of which disregarding every opponent Misty faced viewing it as "weak" doesn't translate to person in question being weak trainer.
    The writers are not gonna have a good guy lose a villain in such a grave situation. Unless we're talking about Contest or competitions, that's it.

    If we are going to compare Misty ad May team, honestly former definitely had more room to grow and potential to turn them in real powerhouses. As opposite to May with who most of her pokemon more or less showed everything they got.
    Misty's had more room to grow because they were all more or less largely undeveloped. May's just came off as better trained and developed Pokemon, a lot of them evolved too and that doesn't mean they've shown everything they've got. Even then everything they've shown has been more impressive to me than everything Misty's ever did.
    From Starmie which is highly flexible having access to various techniques like ice, electric, psychic etc attacks. Horsea which could evolve all the way to Kingdra with half dragon characteristics adding more diversity to pokemon team. Or Psyduck which hides enormous psychic strength in himself waiting to be awakened.
    Well, Starmie could learn an Electric move, Horsea could become a Kingdra, Psyduck could control its Psychic talents. Wartortle could also be a Blastoise, Blaziken also could have learned Blast Burn, see how that works?
    Judging by battle against Harley Octillery Munclax wasn't something special to write home about imo. If anything it often relied on luck and what may come of from metronome. Psyduck on other hand was recognized by several trainers showing to possess much higher psychic powers than ordinary Psyduck would being capable of knocking down most pokemon with just one hit. That's in my book far more impressive than Munchlaxs strength.
    Psyduck gets recognized as a somewhat strong Pokemon by COTDs? Just like Axew, Pignite, Pikachu, etc. see how that works?

    Munchlax actually was shown to be a decent battler, compared to Psyduck who was awful when not under the effects of a headache. Munchlax beat Cacturne and Wigglytuff pretty much all by himself and lost to Octillery who was portrayed as a very well-trained Pokemon. Did Psyduck even get one non-headache induced win by his own merits? I honestly don't remember because I've never watched OS heavily.

    First things first. Misty had more experience as trainer and skill when Ash met her than Dawn or May had who started as typical beginners.
    That doesn't equate to Misty being a better trainer, because May and Iris have more experience than Ash and Dawn yet the latter two can prevail over the former in a battle.
    She already had three pokemon with herself, knew a lot about pokemon types and strategies having to actually teach Ash along with Brock about basics and how things work.
    Misty knows a lot about types? Just like May, Ash, Dawn, Iris, Brock, Max, Paul, Trip, Georgia, see how that works?

    Also we have to take in account how back than formula of anime was mainly focused on Ash with companion role lying in serving as coaches and mentors which guideline him how to become better, more skilled trainer.
    Honestly, Misty was hardly a coach to Ash. I don't quite understand where some people get this idea from, if anyone influenced Ash's skills as a trainer the most it's Dawn. Her Contest-y style of battle gave Ash the spin move, Counter Shield, Ice Aqua Jet, etc.

    So it was to expect how Misty won't get as much fleshing out on herself and dreams like other girls did due to performing different role in show, with more active approach toward her dreams not being done until Johto. Along with fact how writing was different with not being out as much effort into battles and showing pokemon training on screen like we have chance to experience nowadays, and it becomes understandable why you may had low opinion on this.
    I think it's more so because Misty was product of the times, a character who felt more thrown in because the writers need Ash to have a traveling companion and they went for the typical "Hotheaded, tsundere hidden love" archetype.
    She was recognized by many like Koga,Marina,Trinity,Dorian as young and very promising trainer who could come very far one day.
    Misty gets recognized by COTDs? Just like Ash, May, Dawn, Iris, etc.

    Entered various competitions coming very far on first try(such as Whirl Cup, Seaking, Alto mare race, Princess contest),
    Princess Contest-Jessie made it to the finals.
    Alto Mare Race-Movie race, even then I fail to see how that speaks volumes of Misty's strength as a trainer.
    Whirl Cup-She only made it past Ash because of a Psyduck headache win and then got wrecked by Trinity fairly quickly, Corsola wasn't even on Chinchou's radar.
    Seaking-Fishing competition, not a battle competition.


    battled several older, more experienced trainers
    Just like Ash, May, Brock, Misty, Iris, Dawn, Tracey, etc.
    holds position of gym leader already at age of 10
    Gym Leader at a young age? Just like Ash was offered the position of a Frontier Brain? Just like Iris being offered the position of Opelucid Gym Leader? Misty is a gym leader because she's one in the game and that's that.

    On top of that she constantly hone her skills, holds much more experience as trainer than May does entering more trainer battles. So yes, i don't think it would be understatement if say how i consider she would have higher chance in winning battle if she and May battled. Just like due to more experience and knowledge in other field such as contests i would give May edge.
    Misty entered more formal trainer battles than May? I'm almost positive that wasn't the case.

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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Let me describe this in one line first : I Voted for May cause she fits more under the realm of being "more enjoyable".

    Now some elaboration:

    I liked the whole thing involving May starting out as a newbie not even liking pokemon in the first place to becoming one of the top coordinators securing a top 4 finish in Kanto GF. She also managed to assemble a really powerful pokemon team including powerhouses such as Blaziken and Venusaur. We also seen changes in her personality traits with her growing more confident, being able to discover her own contest skills and travelling alone in an previously undiscovered region, Johto.

    I also liked her personality, her appetite, her innocence and her interactions with her rivals.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotpika View Post
    Powerful Pokemon, Secret Abilities = Metronome, calls forth any move in the whole wide world.
    There is difference between strength and potential damage someone mtronome can cause. Fact that he managed to wreck whole TR headquarters in Orange Islands and make huge hole/tunnel in mountain to prevent TR mecha Arbok from crushing down inclines me to believe how it was indeed very powerful pokemon. It just happens its powers weren't refined and properly utilized, shame because it would make great addition to Misty team.

    [
    I think you're grasping for straws, all of that stuff you listed is the same thing tons of other Pokemon have done. It just reminds me how little Misty's Pokemon did.
    I don't know, i hardly recall any of May pokemon being so resistant and fast swimmer pulling others on raft, saving other lives or being on pair with powerful mirage pokemon.

    While Staryu didn't battle as much as it could have been, it was without doub tpowerful and highly flexible pokemon proving to be one of best battlers Misty had.

    Also pokemon not doing much=/= being weak. Something which isn't even true to be honest, unless you only count pokemon doing something through number of battles they entered.

    Golduck beat Starmie with one Ice Beam, Tentacruel beat Goldeen with one Poison Sting, Staryu beat Tentacruel with one Swift, Psyduck beat Staryu with one Water Gun rebounded Confusion. The whole battle was a rushed one-hit KO fest.
    And this proves that Staryu was "weak", how exactly?

    Not sure about your standards, but way i see it beating fully evolved water/poison type with one swift is pretty good indication of that pokemon indeed being well trained and at high level.

    Also for record Golduck defeated Starmie with hyper, not ice beam.

    It wasn't a formal battle and this was one of those "TR can't battle to save their lives!" battles rather than actual one where they seem to have a chance.
    Actually it was legit battle, since James didn't cheated at all giving his best with Meowth only playing role of intermediate/referee.
    Should we than say how James battle against Ash in finals of pokeringer shouldn't count too? Or when he won ribbon for Jessie? When he battled Ash with Venusaur in battle park?

    Its interesting; people complain how Misty never battles and when she battles they again complain discarding everything short of tournament matches.
    Gotta love this circular logic.

    Staryu most likely got wrecked off screen.
    Unless you have sustainable proof to support your theory its anyone guess. Regardless if Staryu lost or didn't doesn't change fact how it wasn't in losing position at all when match was interrupted being on equal strength to Molly Mantine.

    Your making conclusion on lack of evidence not taking in account how there exist several possible outcomes which could had happened. Whether it was win, lose, draw or match ending unfinished.

    Misty's Pokemon were all battered just as easily as Brock's.
    I suggest you to rewatch battle. Because unlike Zubat which got maul with one thunder shock, Onix which fall to one roll attack from Phanphy or Vulpix whose tackle couldn't even match Tediursa. Staryu without any trouble took bubble beam and whirlpool from Mantine breaking free and countering with rapid spin which was in no way weaker than Mantine take down.

    Goldeen sure was defeated fairly easy since it was Misty weakest ookemon. But Staryu? Not really showing to be stronger than Brock pokemon if that battle was something to go by.

    I'm mostly neutral to every character and I never thought Brock was an overly exceptional trainer in wins, however I did think he was pretty strong at times. Croagunk did do heavy damage to Torterra on its own and beat Saturn's Toxicroak, who are both two very strong Pokemon.
    Just like Poliwhirl defeated powerful Poliwrath, Corsola took down Trinity Gyarados or Dorian Mantine. Your point?

    Politoed has never been in a formal battle.
    Doesn't matter. You claimed how Politoad never battled, something which clearly isn't true as canon showed.

    Okay, wait, you're "Championing" Misty's Gyarados but talking down to Wake's as if it's a punk? Dragon Rage and Bite were the only moves we saw in its arsenal and of course Gyarados went down to one Volt Tackle, it's Pikachu and Gyarados in this show have always been portrayed as glass cannons. We never even saw Misty's in a formal battle, yet you can saw it's better based on its moveset?
    Than i guess you forgot about other Gyarados like Clair which took quick attack, thunderbolt, and quick attack mixed with thunder before it was knocked down. Wild Red Gyarados which received several thunder attacks from TR, from Lance Dragonite thunder and Twister still not being defeated until hyper beam finally knocked him down.

    Hell Misty Gyarados showed to be more resistant than Wake pokemon too enduring hyperbeam, ice beam, thunder and flamethrwer from legendary birds and Mewtwo(mirage pokemon which were made to be stronger than normal ones) in Mastermind special still holding his ground.

    Gyarados in general showed to be pretty resistant in this show, but Wake's wasn't that much impressive being easiest gym for Ash to pass in DP.

    Also move set can definitely play important role in battle. For instance when comparing two same pokemon with one having moves like bite, water gun, tackle and other hyperbeam, dragon breath or hidden power its obvious which one of the two would be harder to defeat in battle.

    Likewise Misty Gyarados was in official battle against brother trio. Match was decided to be 3 vs one in Cerulean gym being authorized from PIA inspector Joy.

    Those Tentacruel and trainers were weak, I seriously don't see how anyone can argue otherwise. Yes, it's a fact Gyarados did beat three Tentacruel. I guess it would also be impressive if Politoed beat five Magikarp? And Horsea beat three Caterpie? See how that works?
    Except beating three Tentacruel and sending them fly away is harder and more impressive accomplishment than defeating Magikarp or Caterpie.

    Your completely missing the point generalizing things out. Aka strawman argument.

    Are you serious? They were pretty much walking Team Rocket reduxes, they were clowns, and they were pretty weak.
    And on what your basing this assertion? Only reason you find them weak judging by your premise is because they were defeated by Misty who you consider to be weak . But thing is Misty wasn't weak trainer at all.

    Sure she wasn't prodigy , but she showed definitely impressive knowledge and battle abilities showing to be ahead many of peers of her age accomplishing more than much older trainers managed for longer period of time.

    If May or Ash had known about Wonder Guard Taillow or Torchic would have sent Shedinja into orbit a long time ago, Misty just so happened to have Gyarados use Flamethrower.
    Key word in here is if they knew. But they didn't with Misty showing more competence and knowledge as trainer and how to approach this issue than they did at that moment.

    ]
    The point being that Starmie wins against a Weepinbell and Oddish, neither of which even attacks, but gets beaten by Graveler and Pidgeotto. Giselle might have been the best trainer but Pikachu, a less experienced Pokemon than Starmie, managed to prevail against Cubone a few minutes later.
    That's beside the point. Defeating grass type with single water gun is pretty good indication of pokemon in question being at higher level.

    As for rest of your argument, Ash defeated Giselle through luck and factor of surprise. Not because he was more skilled.

    He defeated much older more experienced trainers like Mandi, Jeanette, Erica, lt. Surge, Koga, Blaine etc in Kanto too, but does that mean he was more skilled and knpwledgeable? Not at all, with most wins happening when being rookie through surprtise element, weird strategy which had flimsy chances of creazing success and luck.

    Horsea never battled in a formal battle.
    Beside the point. You said Horsea never battled, i proved otherwise. That's all there is to it really.

    The writers are not gonna have a good guy lose a villain in such a grave situation. Unless we're talking about Contest or competitions, that's it.
    Whether writers will make someone lose or not is of subject in here. Point is how Misty Luvdisc managed to defeat Mightiena and Sableye proving its worth in battle and as such can be considered as accomplishment.

    Misty's had more room to grow because they were all more or less largely undeveloped. May's just came off as better trained and developed Pokemon, a lot of them evolved too and that doesn't mean they've shown everything they've got. Even then everything they've shown has been more impressive to me than everything Misty's ever did.
    Such as Skitty and Munchlax which won more often on luck, rather than skill? Or Glaceon and Wartortle which before evolution didn't showed to be anything special winning either through surprise factoror deux machina.

    I don't see how exactly this makes them more impressive?

    Combusken, Beautifly, Bulbasaur to extent were definitely strong. But so were Poliwhirl, Corsola, Staryu or Gyarados from Misty honestly.

    Well, Starmie could learn an Electric move, Horsea could become a Kingdra, Psyduck could control its Psychic talents. Wartortle could also be a Blastoise, Blaziken also could have learned Blast Burn, see how that works?
    Honestly aforementioned pokemon from Misty in comparison have predispositions to offer much more than majority of May pokemon at this point could.

    I don't know about you but Psyduck enormous hidden psychic strength which is capable of knocking down anyone with one hit being one of a kind, Starmie highly flexible moveset and agility it possess having access to very wide range of abilities being half psychic or Horsea having predispositions to become half dragon making it semi pseudo legendary looks far more impressive on paper than seeing Blaziken, Wartortle or Skitty learning new attack or two.

    Psyduck gets recognized as a somewhat strong Pokemon by COTDs? Just like Axew, Pignite, Pikachu, etc. see how that works?
    Except Misty Psyduck in particular showed much higher hidden power and enormous strength when its psychic abilities were awaken than we get to see from Axew, PIgnite or Pikachu. To the point that pokemon experts like Koga or Dorian were shocked by incredibl strength duck displayed acknowledging how no ordinary Psyduck have such power.

    From pokemon perspective Psyduck can be considered "prodigy", while other examples you mentioned not really.

    Munchlax actually was shown to be a decent battler, compared to Psyduck who was awful when not under the effects of a headache. Munchlax beat Cacturne and Wigglytuff pretty much all by himself and lost to Octillery who was portrayed as a very well-trained Pokemon. Did Psyduck even get one non-headache induced win by his own merits?
    Not really Cacturn was defeated through combination of Eevee shadow ball which was pushed through Munchlax focus punch to accelerate it, and honestly Wigglytuff ending defeated by single focus punch isn't something i would consider more impressive than Psyduck knocking various pokemon like Poochyena, Zigzagoon, Kingler etc or breaking TR robots by himself through psychic powers.

    I honestly don't remember because I've never watched OS heavily.
    Than this explains a lot of things.

    That doesn't equate to Misty being a better trainer, because May and Iris have more experience than Ash and Dawn yet the latter two can prevail over the former in a battle.
    Misty was definitely better trainer than Ash in early Kanto when he just started out. Also from ever you get impression that May and Iris has more experience than Ash is beyond me. May was rookie who didn't know much when starting out, so did Dawn., Hence explaining why Ash was basically mentor like to them pointing out basics and helping them in training.

    As for Iris while its true how she started battling at younger age than Ash did, after Excadrill stopped listening to her and since she didn't had any pokemon before receiving Axew its safe to presume how she didn't trained and battled much after such incident.

    Ash on another hand prior to meeting Iris was top 16 in Kanto, top 8 in Johto and Hoenn, top 4 in DP league, won Orange championship and Battle Frontier along with winning several other competitions. So yes i would definitely say he has more experience than Iris.

    Misty knows a lot about types? Just like May, Ash, Dawn, Iris, Brock, Max, Paul, Trip, Georgia, see how that works?
    Again, beside the point. You argued how Misty had no experience being rookie when Ash met her. Somthing which was anything but true.

    Honestly, Misty was hardly a coach to Ash. I don't quite understand where some people get this idea from, if anyone influenced Ash's skills as a trainer the most it's Dawn. Her Contest-y style of battle gave Ash the spin move, Counter Shield, Ice Aqua Jet, etc.
    Not really.
    Dawn didn't prepared strategies, taught him about tactics and how to improve his skills, played role in his pokemon learning new attacks, pointed out his flaws and how to fix them etc with any new combination Ash tried being something he decided by himself to copy and try implementing in his own style.

    Something Misty and Brock did quite often.

    Misty gets recognized by COTDs? Just like Ash, May, Dawn, Iris, etc.
    When someone is recognized by other high level trainers as talented and capable trainer , that's basically testament to its strength and abilities. If your gonna use this as ammunition to support argument how May, Iris etc were skilled battlers, than you can't exclude from equation fact how this applies to Misty as well.

    [QUOTE]
    Princess Contest-Jessie made it to the finals.
    Alto Mare Race-Movie race, even then I fail to see how that speaks volumes of Misty's strength as a trainer.
    Whirl Cup-She only made it past Ash because of a Psyduck headache win and then got wrecked by Trinity fairly quickly, Corsola wasn't even on Chinchou's radar.
    Seaking-Fishing competition, not a battle competition.[//QUOTE]

    Just like Jessie made it to semi finals of DP Grand Festival, James to semifinals of pokeringer Ash won etc. Point?

    Speaking of race one of ways to determine trainer strength is also through its resistance and strength in running swimming reflecting physical shape. And as such Misty pokemon fits criteria of preserving and agile pokemon.

    Regarding Whirl Cup, even if it wasn't for Psyduck Misty would likely win if she used Corsola against Kingler which i doubt was any stronger than Trinity Gyarados.
    As we can see in battle between Poliwhirl and Totodule, or Poliwhirl and Kingler Misty showed to be equal to Ash in strength and skill level.

    Furthermore having Corsola defeat Trinity Gyarados, and than successfully repelling Chinchau thunder not collapsing until being hit by confusion ray and water gun isn't something i would call "quickly wrecked".

    Lastly regardless of Seaking contest not being battle competition, it doesn't change fact that Poliwhirl defeated fully evolved Poliwrath which was much stronger statistically proving it to be very well trained by defeating Seaking with ease, while Ash Pikachu and Misty Poliwhirl struggled in comparison.

    Constantly trying to demean value of any achievement Misty had, while overestimating what May and other females brought to show being example of double criteria.

    Gym Leader at a young age? Just like Ash was offered the position of a Frontier Brain? Just like Iris being offered the position of Opelucid Gym Leader? Misty is a gym leader because she's one in the game and that's that.
    Going by that logic Brock, Cilan, Wallace, Janine etc would by gym leaders in anime, Stephan Hoenn champion, Koga would be E4 etc but that obviously isn't the case. Aime canon =/= game canon.

    Reason why Misty is gym leader in anime is because of way in which story flew ending at this position for time being. As such there exist very high standards for someone to come in consideration to be gym leader being rested and evaluated by inspectors from league committee.
    In order to be gym leader that requires high level of knowledge, skill and ability to adapt to unexpected situations reacting accordingly to them. All those qualities Misty possess being recognized as competent and talented trainer by them.

    Misty entered more formal trainer battles than May? I'm almost positive that wasn't the case.
    Than you might want to watch whole original series, because not counting contests and speaking only of trainer battles yes Misty battled more.

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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    There is difference between strength and potential damage someone mtronome can cause. Fact that he managed to wreck whole TR headquarters in Orange Islands and make huge hole/tunnel in mountain to prevent TR mecha Arbok from crushing down inclines me to believe how it was indeed very powerful pokemon. It just happens its powers weren't refined and properly utilized, shame because it would make great addition to Misty team.
    You don't seem to be hearing me, a Pokemon can be weak as ever but that doesn't impact the power of Metronome. Whitney's Clefairy was pretty useless but when it used Metronome it got an extremely powerful Gust attack. The same thing with Assist, Tackle and Doubleslap were pretty useless in Assist's debut episode, signaling Skitty's rather novice power-level however this never impacted the power of the moves Assist would call forth. Randomized moves aren't defined by the power of the Pokemon itself, thus Togepi got a strong move just like any other Metronome/Assist-wielding Pokemon would have.
    I don't know, i hardly recall any of May pokemon being so resistant and fast swimmer pulling others on raft, saving other lives or being on pair with powerful mirage pokemon.
    Misty's Pokemon were highly resistant and fast swimmers? They came off no more special as any other Pokemon. Squirtle and Lapras pulled a raft alongside Staryu and Goldeen. Guess they's fast swimmers and highly resistant too? What about Piplup who helped tail TR alongside Ash in early DP in Turtwig's capture episode? Or Buizel and Piplup when they tried to out do the wild Gyarados? Misty's haven't done anything more special than any other Water-types on this show in swimming or resistance. When I think of resistant I think of Paul's Pokemon immediately and how Magmortar, Ursaring, or Torterra could take so much punishment or Dragonite who stands up to Ice-type moves like a champ.
    While Staryu didn't battle as much as it could have been, it was without doub tpowerful and highly flexible pokemon proving to be one of best battlers Misty had.
    I agree it's one of the best Misty had on her team.
    Also pokemon not doing much=/= being weak. Something which isn't even true to be honest, unless you only count pokemon doing something through number of battles they entered.
    In most of the battles Staryu was in it was largely unimpressive, Ash's Chikorita for example managed to out do it. Misty even commented herself Staryu had a more larger amount of experience than Chikorita. That didn't change the fact Chikorita managed to Vine Whip one-shot Staryu though. I thought it was pretty weak and only ever did most of anything by battling Team Rocket.

    And this proves that Staryu was "weak", how exactly?

    Not sure about your standards, but way i see it beating fully evolved water/poison type with one swift is pretty good indication of that pokemon indeed being well trained and at high level.

    Also for record Golduck defeated Starmie with hyper, not ice beam.
    The whole battle was a shoddy rushed one-hit KO fest, I hardly call it a marker of Misty's strength as a trainer. Run-of-the-mill trainers like Marina one-shotting your whole team and you one-shotting them back doesn't make me think either side is exceptional. Especially since Misty was using a Golduck that wasn't hers and her Goldeen was thrashed easily. Staryu being the only one who could win that was Misty's Pokemon.

    Actually it was legit battle, since James didn't cheated at all giving his best with Meowth only playing role of intermediate/referee.
    Should we than say how James battle against Ash in finals of pokeringer shouldn't count too? Or when he won ribbon for Jessie? When he battled Ash with Venusaur in battle park?
    Again, this was one of those rushed "TR can't battle to save their lives" battles. One of those "Arbok, Weezing, Victreebel GO!" battles and said opposing Pokemon expels them quickly with one attack.
    Its interesting; people complain how Misty never battles and when she battles they again complain discarding everything short of tournament matches.
    Gotta love this circular logic.
    I'm mostly neutral to Misty, so don't lump me in there with others.

    Unless you have sustainable proof to support your theory its anyone guess.
    What in the world are you talking about? Are you suggesting that Misty's Staryu didn't get battered as badly as all of Misty's other(And Brock's Pokemon) just because we didn't see it? We can clearly see Misty was hardly a match for Molly's souped up dream Pokemon. And again, why are we using a movie as a massive indicator of Misty's strength? It doesn't make me think Misty's strong, it just reminds me how little Misty's Pokemon did that we're using a movie battle. Even if the battle is taken into account her Pokemon still got beaten pretty badly.

    Regardless if Staryu lost or didn't doesn't change fact how it wasn't in losing position at all when match was interrupted being on equal strength to Molly Mantine.

    Your making conclusion on lack of evidence not taking in account how there exist several possible outcomes which could had happened. Whether it was win, lose, draw or match ending unfinished.
    I'm sorry, there's no way Staryu beat Mantine.

    I suggest you to rewatch battle. Because unlike Zubat which got maul with one thunder shock, Onix which fall to one roll attack from Phanphy or Vulpix whose tackle couldn't even match Tediursa. Staryu without any trouble took bubble beam and whirlpool from Mantine breaking free and countering with rapid spin which was in no way weaker than Mantine take down.

    Goldeen sure was defeated fairly easy since it was Misty weakest ookemon. But Staryu? Not really showing to be stronger than Brock pokemon if that battle was something to go by.
    Dream Pokemon, movie battle, Misty's got wrecked off-screen more than likely.

    Just like Poliwhirl defeated powerful Poliwrath, Corsola took down Trinity Gyarados or Dorian Mantine. Your point?
    Poliwhirl defeated a Poliwrath owned by a fisherman and later on in Johto got wrecked by a Poliwrath owned by a very strong trainer. It managed to batter Bayleaf and was supposedly stronger than Pikachu. Poliwhirl got smashed by Sakura's sister's Vaporeon with ease as well, Ash's Bulbsaur too, Poliwhirl beat Totodile, Magikarp, and Poliwrath iirc and that's it. The point I'm trying to make is that Poliwhirl and Corsola were decent battlers at best. Not bad but not amazing either.
    Doesn't matter. You claimed how Politoad never battled, something which clearly isn't true as canon showed.
    Misty's Politoed never battled in a formal real battle. It battled, but against Team Rocket.

    Than i guess you forgot about other Gyarados like Clair which took quick attack, thunderbolt, and quick attack mixed with thunder before it was knocked down. Wild Red Gyarados which received several thunder attacks from TR, from Lance Dragonite thunder and Twister still not being defeated until hyper beam finally knocked him down.

    Hell Misty Gyarados showed to be more resistant than Wake pokemon too enduring hyperbeam, ice beam, thunder and flamethrwer from legendary birds and Mewtwo(mirage pokemon which were made to be stronger than normal ones) in Mastermind special still holding his ground.

    Gyarados in general showed to be pretty resistant in this show, but Wake's wasn't that much impressive being easiest gym for Ash to pass in DP.
    The Gyarados in DP got beaten by one Thunderbolt. Clair's didn't last long against Pikachu and got beaten by a QT and two Electric attacks. This is OS-level Pikachu. Trinity's Gyarados got beaten by one Spike Cannon from Corsola iirc. Pikachu one-shotted Wake's Gyarados. The Red Gyarados was rampaging and clearly meant to "last" for the sake of the plot. Gyarados in this show have been portrayed to have pretty crappy staying power.

    The Mastermind Special.....okay, are you serious? The Special had every Pokemon surviving those attacks, Misty's wasn't the only one and even then it's hardly canon and makes me think Gyarados, along with all the other Pokemon, survived those attacks for the sake of the plot otherwise they all would have been killed.
    Also move set can definitely play important role in battle. For instance when comparing two same pokemon with one having moves like bite, water gun, tackle and other hyperbeam, dragon breath or hidden power its obvious which one of the two would be harder to defeat in battle.
    I was making a point that we never saw Wake's full moveset, how you can gather from that that Misty's is stronger solely based on its moveset despite it never being in a formal battle I don't understand.
    Likewise Misty Gyarados was in official battle against brother trio. Match was decided to be 3 vs one in Cerulean gym being authorized from PIA inspector Joy.
    Again a real formal, typical battle format. One on One. It never battled in a formal battle.
    Except beating three Tentacruel and sending them fly away is harder and more impressive accomplishment than defeating Magikarp or Caterpie.

    Your completely missing the point generalizing things out. Aka strawman argument.
    The point I'm trying to make is, those Tentacruel(And trainers) were very weak and it doesn't say much about Gyarados's strength that it beat them. It would be just as about as impressive as Ash's Charizard sweeping a Rattata, Chikorita, and Pidgey owned by a newbie trainer.

    And on what your basing this assertion? Only reason you find them weak judging by your premise is because they were defeated by Misty who you consider to be weak . But thing is Misty wasn't weak trainer at all.
    I never said Misty was weak, I said she was average. Don't put words in my mouth. They came off as weak because of the way they presented themselves, ambushing trainers in a battle that they're losing in, TR-ish mannerisms, etc.
    Sure she wasn't prodigy , but she showed definitely impressive knowledge and battle abilities showing to be ahead many of peers of her age accomplishing more than much older trainers managed for longer period of time.
    Don't know why you're bringing up age, it's the same exact thing with every other kid in this show. Don't know about the accomplishment things either, Misty's only battle tournament was the Whirlcup. She beat a Magikarp and Qwilfish, the Qwilfish was about to smash Corsola and Misty was lucky enough it got locked into Corsola's horns just like Ash was lucky Georgia's Pawniard's claws got stuck in the ground. Misty didn't pull some amazing tactic or strategy out of the gate to beat Qwilfish. Misty only beat Ash thanks to Psyduck.


    Key word in here is if they knew. But they didn't with Misty showing more competence and knowledge as trainer and how to approach this issue than they did at that moment.
    If Misty showed so much knowledge of Shedinja why did she send out her Corsola and have it use Spike Cannon in vain earlier on? She just happened to command Flamethrower from Gyarados, something any trainer would do when battling a Bug-type Pokemon.

    That's beside the point. Defeating grass type with single water gun is pretty good indication of pokemon in question being at higher level.
    I repeat, Oddish was ambushed by Misty and timid and didn't battle back and Weepinbell attacked back neither. Both battles were less than 3 seconds long.
    As for rest of your argument, Ash defeated Giselle through luck and factor of surprise. Not because he was more skilled.
    You brought up the fact Giselle was the strongest in the school, yet Ash's vastly less experienced Pikachu beat Cubone and lasted longer.
    He defeated much older more experienced trainers like Mandi, Jeanette, Erica, lt. Surge, Koga, Blaine etc in Kanto too, but does that mean he was more skilled and knpwledgeable? Not at all, with most wins happening when being rookie through surprtise element, weird strategy which had flimsy chances of creazing success and luck.
    I don't care about "older" or age. This is Pokemon, kids beat older trainers all the time. At the end of the day it's about skill.
    Beside the point. You said Horsea never battled, i proved otherwise. That's all there is to it really.
    So Horsea battles Arbok underwater with Squirtle, Pikachu, and other Pokemon and only shots a Smokescreen which Arbok swims through and does nothing else the rest of the time. That's not even a formal battle.

    Whether writers will make someone lose or not is of subject in here. Point is how Misty Luvdisc managed to defeat Mightiena and Sableye proving its worth in battle and as such can be considered as accomplishment.
    Team Rocket lose to everyone. Whether they be JJM or BC. The writers made Luvdisc win easily because the plot called for it.

    Such as Skitty and Munchlax which won more often on luck, rather than skill? Or Glaceon and Wartortle which before evolution didn't showed to be anything special winning either through surprise factoror deux machina.
    Skitty's win against Jynx was controlled luck, Assist didn't even give May the move she wanted. She had to go through half a dozen moves before she got what she needed to knock out Jynx and Munchlax won through luck, when? Please name some battles Munchlax won through luck. I remember pretty much all his battles, he was my favorite of May's Pokemon and never once do I recall him winning by luck. Squirtle and Eevee won through Deus Ex Machina? When? I don't remember Squirtle or Eevee gaining anything they didn't already have to beat an opponent in the midst of a battle.

    Combusken, Beautifly, Bulbasaur to extent were definitely strong. But so were Poliwhirl, Corsola, Staryu or Gyarados from Misty honestly.
    Blaziken, Beautifly, Munchlax, and Wartortle proved their strength, no doubt. Politoed and Corsola were decent, Staryu was weak, and Gyarados is questionable. We know nothing about its battle history(No I mean a real battle) or any battles its been in, though it's probably strong as most Gyarados traditionally are.

    I mean come on, Combusken beats a Grumpig, two Dragon-types, Absol, Venusaur, evens out with Sceptile. Those are just a few wins I remember, Misty's Corsola barely scraps by with a win against pedestrian trainers like Harrison, with a little luck as well.

    Honestly aforementioned pokemon from Misty in comparison have predispositions to offer much more than majority of May pokemon at this point could.
    So, Misty's Pokemon have more to offer in terms of movesets so that makes them better? What?
    I don't know about you but Psyduck enormous hidden psychic strength which is capable of knocking down anyone with one hit being one of a kind, Starmie highly flexible moveset and agility it possess having access to very wide range of abilities being half psychic or Horsea having predispositions to become half dragon making it semi pseudo legendary looks far more impressive on paper than seeing Blaziken, Wartortle or Skitty learning new attack or two.
    You can hypothetical situation all day long but at the end of the day we're going by what we know and have seen of these Pokemon. Misty's were pretty weak. You seriously don't think May is just sitting around eating all day do you?

    Except Misty Psyduck in particular showed much higher hidden power and enormous strength when its psychic abilities were awaken than we get to see from Axew, PIgnite or Pikachu. To the point that pokemon experts like Koga or Dorian were shocked by incredibl strength duck displayed acknowledging how no ordinary Psyduck have such power.
    Ash's Turtwig showed higher speed and power than normal Turtwig did, to the point that strong experts like Roark, Paul, and Gardenia were shocked by incredible speed displayed by acknowledging it was faster than ordinary Turtwig were. See how this works?
    From pokemon perspective Psyduck can be considered "prodigy", while other examples you mentioned not really.
    Misty's Psyduck, a prodigy. Okay, not really. A prodigy is a savant in the sport of battling, often being competent right off the bat. Misty's sucked without a headache. Legendary baby Pokemon, for example, are prodigy, not Misty's Psyduck. Dawn's Cyndaquil hatched and was very competent right off the bat and evened out with Grotle and helped beat Lyra and Khoury alongside Monferno.

    Not really Cacturn was defeated through combination of Eevee shadow ball which was pushed through Munchlax focus punch to accelerate it, and honestly Wigglytuff ending defeated by single focus punch isn't something i would consider more impressive than Psyduck knocking various pokemon like Poochyena, Zigzagoon, Kingler etc or breaking TR robots by himself through psychic powers.
    Munchlax defeating that extremely tough-looking Wigglytuff with one Focus Punch and doing the same with Cacturne with a little help from Eevee's Shadow Ball was impressive. Psyduck defeating beating Kingler, Jessie, Team Rocket, Zizagoon, and Poochyena in battles with his headache Psychic powers. Yeah. Psyduck was a strong Pokemon when he was under that effect but most of the time pretty useless, if they were in a battle and Psyduck never got hit in the head Munchlax would be the obvious winner.

    Than this explains a lot of things.
    Ouch.

    Misty was definitely better trainer than Ash in early Kanto when he just started out. Also from ever you get impression that May and Iris has more experience than Ash is beyond me. May was rookie who didn't know much when starting out, so did Dawn., Hence explaining why Ash was basically mentor like to them pointing out basics and helping them in training.
    May had a vast more amount experience than Dawn but that didn't keep her from beating her and Iris had more experience in battling than Ash and has had Excadrill longer, even went to school for battling to foster her skills. That doesn't keep Ash from beating her.


    Again, beside the point. You argued how Misty had no experience being rookie when Ash met her. Somthing which was anything but true.
    Misty knowing that using Water Gun on a Fire-type is good, just like every other trainer, doesn't speak leaps and bounds about her knowledge and experience as a trainer.

    Not really.
    Dawn didn't prepared strategies, taught him about tactics and how to improve his skills, played role in his pokemon learning new attacks, pointed out his flaws and how to fix them etc with any new combination Ash tried being something he decided by himself to copy and try implementing in his own style.

    Something Misty and Brock did quite often.
    Misty prepared strategies for Ash? When? I remember Brock helping with the plan to battle Raichu and that's that. Misty pointed out his flaws and how to fix them? All I remember was her telling him the typical type commentary we hear from every character.

    When someone is recognized by other high level trainers as talented and capable trainer , that's basically testament to its strength and abilities. If your gonna use this as ammunition to support argument how May, Iris etc were skilled battlers, than you can't exclude from equation fact how this applies to Misty as well.
    We had two episode telling us Iris was a prodigy from a young age(Mirror to the games.) and May had a fast learning curve if anything, Misty being recognized by COTDs, something just about every MC in this show has had doesn't make me think Misty was high level or skilled or talented.

    Just like Jessie made it to semi finals of DP Grand Festival, James to semifinals of pokeringer Ash won etc. Point?
    This was clearly at a time where Jessie couldn't battle for beans and James was portrayed as being very very good at PokeRinger. A supposed wiz at it from a young age.
    Speaking of race one of ways to determine trainer strength is also through its resistance and strength in running swimming reflecting physical shape. And as such Misty pokemon fits criteria of preserving and agile pokemon.
    Misty winning a race says nothing about her as a trainer, we can all clearly see her Pokemon are weak and unimpressive in battle despite winning a race.
    Regarding Whirl Cup, even if it wasn't for Psyduck Misty would likely win if she used Corsola against Kingler which i doubt was any stronger than Trinity Gyarados.
    As we can see in battle between Poliwhirl and Totodule, or Poliwhirl and Kingler Misty showed to be equal to Ash in strength and skill level.
    Poliwhirl just straight up overpowered Totodile, but Totodile was never hugely impressive and fairly new to the team compared to Poliwhirl. The battle involved zero skill from either side, they both just attacked each other over and over. I don't see how Corsola would likely win against Kingler, the latter has more experience and was more impressive in its battles by that point and Corsola is also a Rock-type and battling a Water-type, as mentioned by Brock, would be dangerous.
    Furthermore having Corsola defeat Trinity Gyarados, and than successfully repelling Chinchau thunder not collapsing until being hit by confusion ray and water gun isn't something i would call "quickly wrecked".
    Corsola took the brute of the damage from Spark(Electric Spark is what it was called in that episode for some reason.)and Chinchou barely felt anything. Later on in the match Corsola got confused and than blasted by a Water Gun. It was defeated with a total of two low power attacks.
    Lastly regardless of Seaking contest not being battle competition, it doesn't change fact that Poliwhirl defeated fully evolved Poliwrath which was much stronger statistically proving it to be very well trained by defeating Seaking with ease, while Ash Pikachu and Misty Poliwhirl struggled in comparison.
    Those Seaking were pretty much Magikarp and Poliwrath was owned by a fisherman, not a battler. That says nothing about its strength.
    Constantly trying to demean value of any achievement Misty had, while overestimating what May and other females brought to show being example of double criteria.
    Even though I'm one of the few to pretty much like all Pokegirls? Yeah, okay.

    Going by that logic Brock, Cilan, Wallace, Janine etc would by gym leaders in anime, Stephan Hoenn champion, Koga would be E4 etc but that obviously isn't the case. Aime canon =/= game canon.
    Except Misty is a Gym Leader because she is one in-game, that's it.
    Reason why Misty is gym leader in anime is because of way in which story flew ending at this position for time being. As such there exist very high standards for someone to come in consideration to be gym leader being rested and evaluated by inspectors from league committee.
    In order to be gym leader that requires high level of knowledge, skill and ability to adapt to unexpected situations reacting accordingly to them. All those qualities Misty possess being recognized as competent and talented trainer by them.
    Just like Gardenia, Iris, Ash, Brock, Forrest, Cilan, Chili, Cress, Lenora, Drayden, Marlon, Roxie, Burgh, Koga, Blaine, see how that works?

    Than you might want to watch whole original series, because not counting contests and speaking only of trainer battles yes Misty battled more.
    It's pretty weak not to count May's Contest, even then I'm sure May entered a little more than Misty. Especially when you consider most of Misty's were loses and Rocket battles.
    Last edited by Bubble Frog; 3rd April 2013 at 09:20 PM.
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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    ON-TOPIC: See the girl in my avatar? That's the one that's less enjoyable to me. They failed to give her any compelling backstory, unlike with Misty, and even Iris.

    Squirtle and Eevee won through Deus Ex Machina? When? I don't remember Squirtle or Eevee gaining anything they didn't already have to beat an opponent in the midst of a battle.
    Dusclops (Skitty), Harley (Squirtle), Brock (Eevee), I'm sure there's at least a few more.

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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    ON-TOPIC: The girl in my avatar is the one that's less enjoyable to me.

    Squirtle and Eevee won through Deus Ex Machina? When? I don't remember Squirtle or Eevee gaining anything they didn't already have to beat an opponent in the midst of a battle.
    Dusclops (Skitty), Harley (Squirtle), Brock (Eevee), I'm sure there's at least a few more.
    Name the DEM in those battles?

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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotpika View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    ON-TOPIC: The girl in my avatar is the one that's less enjoyable to me.

    Squirtle and Eevee won through Deus Ex Machina? When? I don't remember Squirtle or Eevee gaining anything they didn't already have to beat an opponent in the midst of a battle.
    Dusclops (Skitty), Harley (Squirtle), Brock (Eevee), I'm sure there's at least a few more.
    Name the DEM in those battles?
    Skitty- Takes high powered attack after high powered attack, makes a miraculous comeback that would shame even Ash's Pikachu.
    Harley- His Pokemon get demolished by a baby Squirtle...I feel bad for him T_T
    Eevee- Somehow wins May the contest, even though Brock was CLEARLY kicking her ass -_-

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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    Skitty- Takes high powered attack after high powered attack, makes a miraculous comeback that would shame even Ash's Pikachu.
    Harley- His Pokemon get demolished by a baby Squirtle...I feel bad for him T_T
    Eevee- Somehow wins May the contest, even though Brock was CLEARLY kicking her ass -_-
    How in the world was any of that DEM? None of those Pokemon never needed anything they didn't already have to win the battle. Seriously, how is that a Deus Ex Machina? I'll never understand people on this forum's fascination with tossing that term around so loosely.

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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    DEM might be the wrong term for it, but it's still largely BS.

    Skitty should have passed out from all of those attacks it took, but no, it recovered and beat Dusclops.

    Out of curiosity, what do you consider DEM in the anime? (Thunder Armor not included.)

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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    DEM might be the wrong term for it, but it's still largely BS.

    Skitty should have passed out from all of those attacks it took, but no, it recovered and beat Dusclops.

    Out of curiosity, what do you consider DEM in the anime? (Thunder Armor not included.)
    May's Skitty's win over Dusclop was a bit forced, but Misty has gotten her share of "Pokemon lasting for a long time) wins as has every other Pokegirl. Axew's against Golett, Mamoswine and Pachirisu against Gabite and Flareon, Pachirisu against Gabite, Cyndaquil against Croconaw and Chikorita, Mamo/Cynda against Plusle and Minun, Eevee against Marshtomp, Skitty against Dusclop, Psyduck, Pikachu, Krokorok.

    A Deus Ex Machina is basically a power sent out of no where in a hopeless situation where someone is losing that magically turns things around. Pokemon pretty much does that all the time with Pokemon learning new moves in the midst of battles and evolving, though it does make it more believable and acceptable if the Pokemon is shown to be a somewhat decent battler throughout the match and is a decent battler before the sudden turn of events.(Krokorok VS. Dragonite, yes. Roggenrola VS. Excadrill, no.)

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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Misty's wasn't as poorly coordinated, or as blatant, from what I remember. She does have a couple lucky wins, but Psyduck is meant to be humorous. Psyduck was really only DEM in the Whirl Cup, because it got her closer to her goal without her working at it (that, and Ash got stupider than usual), but I wouldn't call Psyduck a Mary-Sue (that might be more fitting than DEM), unlike the ones I mentioned above.

    I've always considered DEM an implausible situation, period. I never cared about evolution during battle or learning new moves, though I agree it depends how it's done.
    Last edited by speedingbulletbill; 2nd April 2013 at 08:25 PM.

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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    They failed to give her any compelling backstory, unlike with Misty, and even Iris.
    Most characters on the cast don't have backstories...they're 10 years old. When you're a kid with only 9 years of life prior to when we meet them, what would you expect? Brock probably got the most, and even then its just mostly about his family. And unlike most of the main cast, May actually got to progress forward, rather than just staying the same and never changing, or going backwards and getting worse like other characters I could mention.
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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    ON-TOPIC: See the girl in my avatar? That's the one that's less enjoyable to me. They failed to give her any compelling backstory, unlike with Misty, and even Iris.
    I don't see how Misty got a compelling backstory. Most of, if not all, the information we got about her backstory were her insecurities about being the youngest sister and wanting to be a great Water Pokemon Master. That's not really a lot to make a compelling backstory. Iris did get a bit more of a backstory, but it isn't what I'd consider compelling either due to the terrible writing. Though, that's for a different topic.

    Anyway, May didn't have much of a backstory, but for a young character, I don't think that's really necessary, especially for the kind of show that Pokemon is. They're going to be more focused on obtaining their goals in the future and enjoying the journey in the present. So, that, along with their ages, doesn't leave a lot of room for a lot of backstory. The backstory for Misty didn't make her more enjoyable to me. It didn't really add much of anything to the character to me and she still was just there. Personality wise, she could be annoying, but I was primarily indifferent towards her.
    Silverwynde likes this.

  14. #74
    Will Rip Titles 4 Money speedingbulletbill's Avatar
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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    They failed to give her any compelling backstory, unlike with Misty, and even Iris.
    Most characters on the cast don't have backstories...they're 10 years old. When you're a kid with only 9 years of life prior to when we meet them, what would you expect? Brock probably got the most, and even then its just mostly about his family. And unlike most of the main cast, May actually got to progress forward, rather than just staying the same and never changing, or going backwards and getting worse like other characters I could mention.
    They could at least have given her SOMETHING. We don't even know why she disliked Pokemon so much. I also find it weird how she knew so little at the start, despite Max being her brother, and being at a gym pretty much her life.

  15. #75
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: More enjoyable to you, Misty or May?

    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    They could at least have given her SOMETHING. We don't even know why she disliked Pokemon so much. I also find it weird how she knew so little at the start, despite Max being her brother, and being at a gym pretty much her life.
    Didn't they mention this in Harley's first episode? May was shown as a little kid in the beach being swamped by Tentacool and her mother throws a pokeball at her. Also in the third episode, May flat out says that Norman never let her or Max watch his Gym battles against challengers.

    I'll agree with you that May got over her dislike of pokemon too quickly and it should have been a small arc that went on for the first few eps of Hoenn though.

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