Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 29th March 2013 at 07:21 PM.
Michele's May sounds...nothing...like Veronica's May in most of BF, and especially in DP. I kinda liked it in BF for a more mature May in the Kanto Grand Festival and she did do a good job in the 9th movie (the only good voice besides Bill Rogers' Brock in that film, IMO), but felt she was really bad in DP, IMO.
No doubt about that. Michele's May sounds like a prostitute.
Ugh, I'm getting off topic again! XD
I love watching Mermaid Misty swim, she's much better than May at it.I enjoyed Misty's role more, sure, May had more focus and screentime, but that doesn't automatically equate to quality.
Please don't get into an off-topic discussion. There isn't any reason to bring up Ash's defeats in this thread when there are plenty of other threads to discuss his character overall and in BW specifically. While discussing the voices for Misty and May is a bit more on-topic, there are also other threads to discuss the voices like this one: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f555/do-you-feel-voices-have-improved-since-cast-change-took-place-109381/. Please don't get into another off-topic discussion and please resume discussing which character you prefer.
I like them equally. And both are a hell of a lot better than Iris.
Which isn't that much surprising since back in early days writers policy about baby pokemon was different treating them as harmless and fragile little creatures which aren't capable of battling(something which didn't start to change until end of Johto). When taking in account Togepi joyous nature, it made even less of surprise why it never battled much with one of ways for it to evolve being through happiness. Togepi was in reality first egg pokemon which main cast received, with writers treating it as very rare specie being exclusive for Misty making big deal out of it.
I don't really think it is simply offering honest POV. We can see through pulling raft when they escaped from Gyarados, when he tried to get group to north pole, being involved in rescue missions such as pulling group out of sunk ship st. Anne, saving gym leader daughter Mary, destroying TR mecha etc how this pokemon possessed high level of durability and speed.
Likewise fact that he defeated marina Tentacruel with single swift, was on pair with double powerful mirage pokemon like Mantine, almost defeating grass type Chikorita with single water gun how this pokemon was definitely one of strongest and most reliable pokemon Misty had.
Only battle which got ended with one hit was Staryu vs Tentacruel and Marina Psyduck. Even so if pokemon is powerful enough to defeat someone with single hit i don't see how this in any way demean his value and true strength. On contrair it only shows how strong and well trained he is. Should we than says how every battle Ash, May, Dawn , Iris etc won with single hit should be disregard, just because writers didn't dragged with match longer than it was needed to please our expectations?Marina-The whole battle was a one-hit KO fest from both sides.
James-Beating OS TR is not impressive.
Mirage Pokemon-If we didn't cut away from the battle we would have likely seen Staryu getting wrecked just like all Misty's other Pokemon.
Regarding James if we are going to count Ash win over James in pokeringer, or Dawn/May vs Jessie as some kind of achievement, than i don't see why Misty should be exception. Battle between James and Misty for salveyo weed was perfectly legit being required skill and speed to not only clear out smoke screen but send Weezing flying away out of range.
-Regarding mirage pokemon to be fair we can't know for sure , because way battle was interrupted certainly didn't made it seem like Staryu was losing. Not only it break out of whirlpool, bubble beam combo with ease but it was with rapid spin equal in strength with Molly Mantine which was 2x stronger than normal one would be.
In comparison none of Brock pokemon whether it was Onix, Zuibat or Vulpix lasted that long showing how Misty pokemon are on higher level than his really are.
Its quite funny, some people like to claim how Brock was on of strongest trainers traveling with Ash because of his past as gym leader, yet in here Misty clearly showed how she surpassed him in skills being past gym leader as well(which of course people disregard as nothing positive).
Talking about double standards.
Doesn't matter, this right there proves how Politoad entered some battles after evolution. And battle against brothers was honestly legit being three on three when Ash and Brock joined, with Misty accepting their challenge in first place.I usually don't count TR battles and iirc those trio of trainers cheated and it was an ambush rather than a battle.
Wake Gyarados was pretty underwhelming to be honest. It was enough about just single volt tackle from Pikachu to knock him down with his move set combined of dragon rage and bite being rather flimsy compared to balanced and versatile choice of attacks Misty's in comparison has whether its protect and whirlpool for defense, or hyperbeam, hydropump or flamethrower for offensive purposes.Misty's Gyarados showed immense amounts of strength and promise that Wake's didn't in battle?
Three weak Tentacruel owned by weak pathetic trainers and a Pokemon that goes down to one hit and is only invincible when not hit by SE move. That seems pretty pathetic.
Also your making assumptions without proof to back things up. What we know from facts is how three brothers battled Misty with three Tentacruel, how Gyarados was able to repel all their moves and send them in stratosphere by slicing through hydropump with hyper beam. That's a fact.
Everything else is presumption without proof to back things up, since due to insufficient amount of information we don't know how strong those three trainers were.
Speaking of colonel Hanson and his Shedinja, just because pokemon in question has low HP doesn't say anything about Hanson skills as trainer. Fact that no one else beside Misty and Gyarados could get over wonder guard being only trainer which figured how to knock it down was only indication of her competence and adaptability as trainer.
With your statement your trying to imply how Shedinja in general is "pathetic pokemon", and how any achievement Misty pokemon made should be discarded as result of such. Something i can't really agree with.
It got smashed by best student from school Giselle, and only because no one expected that Graveler was trained in such way that it could break through water gun with roll attack. That's not something to scoff at.
Speaking of other pokemon, they were grass types with water attacks in general not being very effective against them unless pokemon which use them in particular is very strong.
Additionally as expected writers just started out in beginning of Kanto saga with battles being much less detailed and complex compared to today standards. But just because we experienced lower quality of battles doesn't make pokemon which participated in it weak.
Horsea never battled, which isn't true.
Did i mentioned how others don't have potential? No, i don't believe so only offering my view on pokemon in question and how it had room to be done more with it.All Pokemon have potential, Misty's aren't a stand-out.
You mean JJM trio loses to everyone? Butch and Cassidy are harder nut to crack showing higher level of skill in battles than Jessie and James did.Team. Rocket. They lose to everyone.
Speaking of which disregarding every opponent Misty faced viewing it as "weak" doesn't translate to person in question being weak trainer.
If we are going to compare Misty ad May team, honestly former definitely had more room to grow and potential to turn them in real powerhouses. As opposite to May with who most of her pokemon more or less showed everything they got.
From Starmie which is highly flexible having access to various techniques like ice, electric, psychic etc attacks. Horsea which could evolve all the way to Kingdra with half dragon characteristics adding more diversity to pokemon team. Or Psyduck which hides enormous psychic strength in himself waiting to be awakened.
Judging by battle against Harley Octillery Munclax wasn't something special to write home about imo. If anything it often relied on luck and what may come of from metronome. Psyduck on other hand was recognized by several trainers showing to possess much higher psychic powers than ordinary Psyduck would being capable of knocking down most pokemon with just one hit. That's in my book far more impressive than Munchlax strength.It's okay if you thought Misty had a strong team. If Psyduck could control its Psychic talents it could be a force to be reckoned with, however going by what we saw it couldn't and I don't think even if it did could beat "most" of May's Pokemon. Especially when Munchlax could, imo, defeat it after a hard-fought battle assuming it would be able to control these talents. Otherwise Psyduck was pretty weak when not headache-induced.
Only Joe and Sakura were rookies. Others were either average or above average trainers Misty faced such as Marina, Harrison, Hanson,Trinity, Andreas, Dorian etc.Even then Joe, Sakura, Marina, Harrison, the Whirl Cup trainers, the unbeatable trio brothers, Colonel Hanson and Georgio were definitely not exceptional, most being rookie trainers.
First things first. Misty had more experience as trainer and skill when Ash met her than Dawn or May had who started as typical beginners. She already had three pokemon with herself, knew a lot about pokemon types and strategies having to actually teach Ash along with Brock about basics and how things work.The show didn't even portray Misty as an exceptional trainer(Ash, May, etc.) or as a prodigy(Iris) or even as someone who had a bit of experience in her goal before starting her journey.(Dawn, Iris) Ergo, that's one of the reasons I think Misty's Pokemon on the large are pretty weak, that and their overall portrayal on the show.
Also we have to take in account how back than formula of anime was mainly focused on Ash with companion role lying in serving as coaches and mentors which guideline him how to become better, more skilled trainer.
So it was to expect how Misty won't get as much fleshing out on herself and dreams like other girls did due to performing different role in show, with more active approach toward her dreams not being done until Johto. Along with fact how writing was different with not being put as much effort into battles and showing pokemon training on screen like we have chance to experience nowadays.
However for back in day show standards Misty was portrayed as talented, highly adaptive and smart battler imo. She was recognized by many like Koga,Marina,Trinity,Dorian as young and very promising trainer who could come very far one day.Entered various competitions coming very far on first try(such as Whirl Cup, Seaking, Alto mare race, Princess contest), battled several older, more experienced trainers outsmarting them through better, innovative approach, holds position of gym leader already at age of 10, was never that much behind Ash always being around his level when ever they battled each other showing to possess more knowledge about pokemon,type advantage etc giving tips and criticism to Ash and his ignorance during original series.
On top of that she constantly hone her skills, holds much more experience as trainer than May does entering more trainer battles. So yes, i don't think it would be understatement if say how i consider she would have higher chance in winning battle if she and May battled. Just like due to more experience and knowledge in other field such as contests i would give May edge.
Instead of looking at it negatively we should pay attention to appeal and value, connection between Psyduck and its trainer brought to show.
Its not her fault that Psyduck is more mentally handicapped than ordinary Psyduck would be posing greater challenge in making him learn something.
Also while writers could give Misty potentially some significant growth through work with Psyduck making him competent, they found his role of source of comedy and tantrums he created with trainer were overall more beneficial for anime explaining why not much effort was out into his training.
So if there is anyone you should blame for this its writers, and not character herself.
Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 31st March 2013 at 12:00 PM.
Misty tried training her Psyduck and failed. No 'Psyduck was mentally handicapped' is not a valid arguement since over the course of the anime, many trainers have managed to train hard-to-train pokemon whether it be 'dumb' pokemon or 'arrogant' pokemon. They were successful. Misty wasn't.
If Misty wasn't successful trainer she wouldn't be able to raise Poliwag to Politoad, Togepi to Togetic or work and improve greatly strength of her Corsol and Sraryu. I believe Gyarados definitely comes in consideration too not listening to anyone being completely out of control, yet Misty managed to calm it down and make him obey.Misty tried training her Psyduck and failed. No 'Psyduck was mentally handicapped' is not a valid arguement since over the course of the anime, many trainers have managed to train hard-to-train pokemon whether it be 'dumb' pokemon or 'arrogant' pokemon. They were successful. Misty wasn't.
Issue with Psyduck didn't came so much from Misty, but more nature of anime which was based on comedy to higher degree back in original series, hence explaining why writers played Psyduck mostly for comedy purposes and bring some sort of tension getting on nerves to trainer , rather than putting much effort into its growth.
It was basically signature, stamp to unique relationship between Misty and dumb duck writers opted to play with.
As we can see with other pokemon Misty possess, writers didn't scruple in portraying her as trainer which managed to deal with their issues.