CONTEST: Least Favorite Saga - Page 2

View Poll Results: Least Favorite Season

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  • Kanto

    3 3.26%
  • Orange Islands

    9 9.78%
  • Johto

    18 19.57%
  • Hoenn

    2 2.17%
  • Battle Frontier

    7 7.61%
  • Diamond and Pearl

    7 7.61%
  • Best Wishes

    46 50.00%
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Thread: Least Favorite Saga

  1. #16
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    Definitely Battle Frontier for me. It was one giant mix of wasted potential and missed opportunities. Aside from title return to Kanto felt nothing like first region was. There was hardly any revisit of older towns and places, older characters were nonexistent(no one aside from prof,Oak appeared there), gym leaders never showed up and areas through Ash traveled through were portrayed as taking place in entirely new region. May and cast in general started to be stale at times for me losing their initial charm too, and her contest battles won with fluke(confrontation against Brock comes to mind) decreased overall enjoyment to them too.

    Not to mention battles were utterly unrealistic with Ash wins not being done in credible and believable manner. Like whole Pikachu vs Regice win, Charizard taking up "billion"of Articuno hits somehow turning over match in its favor. Though ill give them how making Ash possessed by evil spirit becoming evil for a change threw different life on character being interesting to see, and i liked how Brock got little more focus having some great moments there. Such as entering contest, battling with Ash against TR to save Pewter gym etc.

    Its not like BF didn't had good moments, its just that flaws overshadow them largely killing my enjoyment for this saga in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    On top of that, what good came out of it?
    Good:
    Better battles compared to Kanto days being filled with more strategy
    -Misty and Brock receiving more screen time and development. For example Johto did a LOT more for Misty goal of water master and complex of feeling less worthy in comparison to sisters, than Kanto ever did.
    -Ash not getting pity badges winning most of gym battles fairly
    -gym leaders being better portrayed and gaining more focus(Claire, Pryce or Jasmine instantly comes to mind)
    -Ash and group pokemon in general being portrayed more as actual characters with personalities, rather than just battling machines
    -Ash, Misty and Brock still having fun dynamic and character interaction
    -several great mini arcs like Whirl Cup, Red Gyarados, Lugia, Larvitar, raged Dragonite and dragon temple.
    -one of best leagues in pokemon history wrapping up Ash and Gary rivalry
    -humorous pokemon like Wobuffet etc.

    I can understand disappointment with wasted potential, but to act like Johto didnt had anything good is way too exaggerating.

    Besides anyone can notice how many Johto mistakes were fixed on good part in master Quest anyway which was great season.

    Ash essentially had his worst Pokemon team of the series, the original trio loses all its chemistry, Misty fades away into the background, and the saga just goes on for 3 years with nothing of substance.
    Not true at all. Im not even sure what your talking about because original trio definitely had chemistry in Johto. I remember several moments where you could feel how they were friends having fun together. It can be noticed how close group they were during whole course of Johto with Misty sarcastic inputs and adventurous attitude,Ash bratty and impulsive side and Brock calm and rational personality providing humor and good chemistry.Heck even Brock and Misty had memorable moments talking about girls and love while keeping each other in check when becoming too obsessive("Heartbreak of Brock","Corsola Caper","hassle in the Castle"etc) with his sickness showing best how much they were dependent on his help when he got sick(twice counting banned episode) having to overcome their differences.

    Only reason why we didnt had their dynamic appearing on daily basis is because many episodes were following repetitive formula of fillers concentrating on COTD and problems with their pokemon with main cast taking backseat not being much active than.

    It can be noticed how close group was when they had to separate in "Gotta Catch Ya Later".

    As for Misty, last time i checked it was Brock who fade out in background in Johto the most. Misty at least had Whirl Cup arc, battled more, had several memorable interactions with characters like Sakura, Dorian, Andreas etc , battled more and received some notable growth starting to mature.

    By the time Johto was ending it felt like the whole thing was pointless. The tediousness of the Johto saga is largely the reason why the original trio was completely abandoned and why Misty was dropped from the show.
    Do you really believe this? Johto wasn't disliked because of original cast, but too many fillers and lack of development for characters. If original trio was viewed by writers as failure they wouldn't go back to OS formula with BW generation and if they were hated among fans there wouldn't be such big demand existing for return. First cast was never reunited simply because after finding how anime can go on without original cast, writers opted to rather introduce new companions with each new generation to better go in correlation with games and their promotion, as well rather wanting to try out new designs Ken Sugimori comes up with giving new "eye candies"(referring to interview with es director and storyboard artist mr. Hidaka).

    Original trio is still probably most groundbreaking and recognized cast we had having appeal which guarantees success .

    Only reason why they probably wont return them is for same reason why AG and DP cast wont return either. Due to writers rather wanting to use new characters for marketing purposes. For same reason Misty didn't returned to cast either and unless things drastically change she wont.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Misty got a bit more screentime near the end of Johto with the whole Whirl Cup, but that was probably the writers deciding to doing something with her before she was replaced.
    I believe it was more that other writers realized how Misty as character wasn't developed enough trying to redeem at least partially for ex head writer mr. Shudo mistakes. Which was followed up with evolution of Togepi in Hoenn and some more development she got in hosos.

    Granted they couldn't have done more because she stopped being main character, but it seems other members of writing staff cared more about character than Shudo really did.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalSynFrey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kishore View Post
    BEST WISH !
    This is my less favorite saga , I mean-
    -Ash gone back to being a idiot
    -He's inferior to a Rocky
    -He haven't achieve anything here
    -He has only one pokemon that can fly
    -He losing as much as possible
    -Most gym battle are boring
    -Ash image keep getting ruin
    -Pokemon starting to look more like ''My Little pony'' & '''Dragon tail''
    -Ash is being treated as a punching bag
    So tell me , Why shouldn't this saga be less favorite !
    Its basically a re-run of what he did in the Original Series, that's what I didn't like about BW.
    Hell, he was already a bit mature in the Advanced and DP series and BW, he's become a immature idiot back in the Original.

    Let's hope the writers don't make the same mistake in the Sixth Generation.
    Ya , But he really was a Rocky in original series !
    But now Ash is a 5 year experience BF conquer !
    So, It not okay for Ash to be treated the way he was in original series !
    you watch Naruto shippudan ?
    Can you accept Naruto to become the no talent village loser again !
    Also,
    Best Wish opening SUCK'S !

  3. #18
    samurai in autumn garrison-san's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    Just a reminder that we have this thread for debating the merits of Johto: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f555/what-degree-johto-flawed-117752/

    As per the nature of Grand Festival, this is intended as a more light-hearted thread where you can state your least favourite saga and give reasons for it. It is not intended as an in-depth back-and-forth debate about a particular saga, particularly when we already have a thread for precisely that purpose.

  4. #19
    What's this? Bouffalant Herdier's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    It's a close call between Johto and BW, boredom vs aggravation, but the sheer tedium of Johto just barely gives it the edge.

    Even though there are a few changes to BW that I do like, (Mainly that the show doesn't feel quite as repetitive as before) I will hate it forever for throwing away the established past of the show, and for changing Ash and the TRio so drastically without proper explanation. Everything feels like such a step down from the excellent AG and DP series; Most of the main groups' Pokemon are severely lacking in personality, the battles feel rushed and lack the depth from before, and some of the new characters are completely unlikeable. (Iris and Trip are quite possibly the most annoying characters I have ever seen on television) For years, I had wanted the show to have more varied storylines, but I didn't know it would come at the cost of everything else I liked about the show.

    That said, despite everything I hate about BW, there are still a number of things keeping me from abandoning the show altogether, (Cilan, Snivy, Scraggy, Burgundy, Bianca and Georgia) which is more than I can say for Johto. I watched every episode in the series, but after I was done, I had no hope that I would ever enjoy the anime ever again and quit for years. So much pointless and predictable filler, it was utterly depressing to see what the show had become, and it felt like the writers had given up on the show themselves. About the only thing that held my interest were the much-improved Gym battles and the rare intense episodes. It picked up a little towards the end, but by that point, it was much too little, too late. Now that I've seen AG and DP, Johto seems even weaker in my memories than it did when I was watching it.
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  5. #20
    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post
    BW and Kanto, though Kanto has Misty, Brock, old Poké, better episodes, nostalgia bonus, etc... so Kanto easily beats BW
    I'm voting BW, but I'd still vote for Kanto too if we could choose more than one
    Thanks Arceus Johto fixed Kanto's mistakes (like Hidden Mew explained pretty good, so I won't repeat what he said and what I said countless times before) but sadly the writers somehow got to the conclusion that it'd do good for the BW series to return to these past mistakes - which totally failed, even worse than the original failure, at least to me...
    Thank you, but I'm actually a girl. Just wanted to clarify that. I'm almost wishing that I changed my vote to BW just because it does feel like a huge step-backwards for the anime and the flaws in it bothers me a lot more than the boring aspects of the Orange Islands, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to vote for a saga that I haven't seen all of the episodes for it yet. Though, I wonder how I would feel about the Battle Frontier saga. I haven't seen most of those episodes in years, with even a few episodes that I haven't seen yet, but I think that the main problem I would have with it would be the rushed pacing. I remember liking May's Contests and some of the Frontier Brain matches though.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Thank you, but I'm actually a girl. Just wanted to clarify that.
    Sorry ^^" I think I actually wanted to check out but didn't see a Latios/Latias icon in your details (now I do see the Latias)

    I'm almost wishing that I changed my vote to BW just because it does feel like a huge step-backwards for the anime and the flaws in it bothers me a lot more than the boring aspects of the Orange Islands, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to vote for a saga that I haven't seen all of the episodes for it yet.
    Sadly, I think that's it's pretty obvious by now how the BW series is going to be till its end, so I wouldn't feel bad about voting it before it ended
    I do hope though that BW2 will cause this series to improve at least a little
    I also really want Ash to totally fail this League and get Top 16 again (hello Kanto references that this series loves so much) and then get totally depressed, eventually get over it and decide to train seriously - I'd really like that, and then maybe we'll have an Ash closer to his AG/DP-self during the second half of BW, whatever they'll do there after the League and before next gen

    Though, I wonder how I would feel about the Battle Frontier saga. I haven't seen most of those episodes in years, with even a few episodes that I haven't seen yet, but I think that the main problem I would have with it would be the rushed pacing. I remember liking May's Contests and some of the Frontier Brain matches though.
    I think I really liked that saga, mostly thanks to May, her Contests and other eps that focused on her... I did like some of the Frontier Brains battles too, though it was mostly Brandon that was really interesting
    Some of the fillers were fun too, like they usually are in this show, despite what people may say about them

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    While the Silver Conference is my fav tournament (Ash vs Gary), I'd still pick Johto as my least fav because of the sucky fillers.

  8. #23
    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post
    Sorry ^^" I think I actually wanted to check out but didn't see a Latios/Latias icon in your details (now I do see the Latias)
    It's okay. There wasn't a Latias icon before since my biography details weren't updated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup
    Sadly, I think that's it's pretty obvious by now how the BW series is going to be till its end, so I wouldn't feel bad about voting it before it ended
    I do hope though that BW2 will cause this series to improve at least a little
    I also really want Ash to totally fail this League and get Top 16 again (hello Kanto references that this series loves so much) and then get totally depressed, eventually get over it and decide to train seriously - I'd really like that, and then maybe we'll have an Ash closer to his AG/DP-self during the second half of BW, whatever they'll do there after the League and before next gen
    That's true. I just automatically thought of the Orange Islands being dull when I saw the topic, instead of my issues with BW for some reason. I hope that BW2 will be able to help improve the anime as well. I certainly wouldn't mind if Ash got to the Top 16. It would be another Kanto reference and I really don't think he deserves to get a high rank in the league given the serious downgrade of his skills and the poor quality of the majority of his Gym battles. Ash really does need to reflect on why he ended up in the Top 16, which will hopefully lead him to train his Pokemon more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup
    I think I really liked that saga, mostly thanks to May, her Contests and other eps that focused on her... I did like some of the Frontier Brains battles too, though it was mostly Brandon that was really interesting
    Some of the fillers were fun too, like they usually are in this show, despite what people may say about them
    Even if it was rushed, I really enjoyed what I saw of May's Contests and some other episodes focused on her. The main Frontier Brain battles I remember liking were a tag battle with Swellow and Corphish and the one where Sceptile learned Solarbeam. AG in general had some really fun filler episodes from what I remember.
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  9. #24
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    The way I see it, this is only really a contest between Best Wishes and Johto. Both have good qualities amongst thier irratings bits (the odd great battle, the odd funny episode, Dento, the first attempt at a tornament with all the cast entering [Whirl Cup even if it could have been done much better], ect) but Best Wishes has far less of an excuse for sucking. It doesn't have 'this is our first attempt at a long saga' or 'we messed up on something big (GS ball) and don't want to take riskes' or 'these characters were only meant to last around 100 episodes'. Johto's long strech of dull and habbit of having characters standing around really are terrible faults though. Both can be argued as trying to copy the original series but without understanding what made Kanto so great but with Best Wishes that arguement simply makes alot more sence. Plus whilst both series have annoying characters (Iris, Nanako, Shuuti, ect.) in Best Wishes, the annoying characters simply get far more screen time.

    At the end I have to go with Best Wishes. Hopefully like Johto it can redeem itself by making the writers get themselves in gear again.

  10. #25
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    :Prepares self for gun shots:

    After every single saga I've watched, OS is probably my least favorite. I know Best Wishes seems like a reboot but there is alot of things that BW is doing that's right comapred to before. The gymbattles is one. The Pokemon interactions were not as good back then than now. We really get to see the stories of the Pokemon in this current series. The animation and the development for the characters didn't start getting good until later on. Plus Ash was still dumb but there was alot of luck in Ash's battles but here we see Ash lose from time because of his bad mistakes. That shows character and I didn't see that until Orange Islands when he had to learn to start training and focus on what's important.
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  11. #26
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    Before I say anything, Hoenn saga was the best! Moving on..
    I don't have a least favourite Saga simply because i've thouroughly enjoyed everything we've been treated too so far up until Sinnoh. I can't comment on BW because I haven't started watching that yet unfortunately,"is currently re-watching the anime in the Hoenn Saga".
    If I had to pick one, it would come down to a cats whiskers between the Orange Archipelago & Sinnoh. The former because although I enjoyed it, was more pointless and pretty much a filler between Kanto and Johto. Sinnoh because I haven't really watched the entire saga, infact you know what i'll take that back, silly me! Sinnoh was actually amazing from what i've seen so far! We'll see what BW has to offer, i'm really curious as to how good that saga will be when it's developed and is in its finishing stages.

    Anyways Johto, Seriously? It may have had countless and almost never-ending fillers, flaws like every saga yes! But Johto wasn't all that bad.
    I always felt Johto was a fan-favourite to say the least. I'll admit, not my favourite saga at all, but not something I would hate on due to number of fillers etc
    In response to someone whom i cannot remember! Ash, Misty and Brocks chemistry was as fine as shining gold! How on earth could you question that? "Gotta catch ya later" was one of the most memorable finale episodes to date with the original trio breaking up. Although it was good timing because if they stuck with them in Hoenn they would have screwed up BIG time so it was a wise move indeed!
    To be fair there were many improvements in the Johto series over the previous ones eg far better gym battles and regional league.
    Not to mention this was their first shot at making a 3 year saga, so give them a break! Johto was amazing, could have been much better but so could Sinnoh and all the other sagas. I guess the fillers was a drawback but was good enough to end the original series.
    In this wierd strange almost comprehendable way, no Saga is the same as simple as that. I enjoyed all of them differently in their own way, and I am thouroughly looking forward to BW and whatever comes next!
    Last edited by Kall El; 6th May 2012 at 09:35 PM.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    I lost interest durring Orange Islands and that carried on to the start of Johto. I still to this day don't find OI to be that interesting...
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  13. #28
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    Johto, hands down. Just way too many bland eps. However, I will not deny that when Johto is good, it's pretty good. Kanto is at least my second least favorite, purely because I cannot stand the kiddiness anymore. (even though lately, I feel that's perhaps missing the point, it's supposed to be a wacky show, whereas later sagas were a more direct adaptation) Orange follows not too far in third least, but only because it's the most original the series ever got, but it's still very similar to Kanto. BW continues to lessen for me, but I'm uncertain if it has less tolerable than Hoenn to me, it probably has, since I would consider the disregard for continuity a more serious offense than simply slogging through uninteresting eps (which there are less of in Hoenn than Johto) and a botched villian plot. I'll have to do some soul searching for where I would place BW now, but it gives me the same sense I do for Kanto. It has some really good eps, but it has a really irritating aspect that severely weighs it down. I'll still say that BW is at least better written than Kanto, but for me, that isn't saying much.

    EDIT: Yeah, I'll say that BW deserves the third least more than Orange does by now. I just regard Orange with indifference. BW, I outright hate, but like I said, it's at least slightly better written than Kanto.
    Last edited by Dragon Char; 8th May 2012 at 09:57 AM.
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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    Well, personally, I had to choose between Orange, Johto and Frontier but the decision was made quickly. As a kid, I didn't have such perspectives about things and just enjoyed watching anything but after re-watching all of the series, a lot of stuff occured to me. The Orange Islands were at least short, and although I find water/island traveling features in games and series inconveniently complicated, it is somehow always refreshing in Pokemon. Gyms were interesting too. Johto was filler'd alright but Ash&co. were so... I can't really find the word for it, adorable or cute or something struggling to develop so slowly. Entertaining, at least for me. Also, there was a lot of rotation on the team and the tourney is so far my favorite.
    On the other hand, the BF was a pain to watch even at the first time. At least they tried something with Sceptile but it was so far-fetched, imo the dub was awful and I couldn't stand the parallel contest arc at all either. Ugh, it was a year almost totally wasted for me.

    I really don't want to go off, but let me say the poll is rather unfair with BW, since it hasn't ended yet - and a couple of other reasons but then again, you know, let's not go there.
    Last edited by Freefall; 8th May 2012 at 10:53 AM.

  15. #30
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Least Favorite Saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Freefall View Post
    On the other hand, the BF was a pain to watch even at the first time. At least they tried something with Sceptile but it was so far-fetched, imo the dub was awful and I couldn't stand the parallel contest arc at all either. Ugh, it was a year almost totally wasted for me.
    Yeah, I can understand not liking a lot of the BF filler episodes, but I did think they got all the important stuff right. Most of the Frontier Brain battles were fun to watch, we got to see Grovyle and Phanpy evolve, as well as Ash bring back several of his older pokemon for matches. Brock got a few decent episodes, (the Pewter Gym ep was my favorite), we got an awesome Butch/Cassidy episode, and I did think at least half of May's Contests that saga were interesting, the only bad ones was the very first one where Squirtle beat Harley and the Brock contest due to the cheap win. The Kanto GF is also still my favorite Grand Festival due to the climax of the rivalries.

    But overall its obvious Battle Frontier was severely rushed because DP was coming out. Given they had to fit 7 Brain matches, 7 contests, a Grand Festival and everything else into only 65 episodes...you got to give the writers props for that.

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