CONTEST: Favorite Motto? - Page 2

View Poll Results: Favorite Motto?

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  • Kanto motto, Kanto theme

    39 67.24%
  • Kanto motto, Hoenn theme

    7 12.07%
  • Battle Frontier Motto

    5 8.62%
  • Diamond and Pearl Motto

    11 18.97%
  • Unova/Isshu motto

    24 41.38%
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Thread: Favorite Motto?

  1. #16
    II.5 Eradia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    Sneaky bump? ;D

    I will always adore the original. Not just for nostialgia, but the beauty of the lines in it that were carried into the future mottos. It felt truly villainous.

    I care little for the Hoenn & Sinnoh mottos, they seemed like cheap re-iterations of something that was great.

    The Unova theme, however felt like a fesh take on something and actually felt new - the Black/White references as well as the Fire/Thunder/Reshiram/Zekrom references felt fitting and not out of place.
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  2. #17
    Registered User PTOldMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    I really think the Unova motto is the worst translated motto, and today's episode ("Battling For The Love Of Bug-Types") really is an example of why I think this. I'm not talking about it rhyming of not, it's just that the motto has WAY too many syllables. The voice actors seem to be really making an effort to be able to say the motto. Jessie starts talking way too soon in this episode in her second line. She almost says half of the sentence before her face appears! And James's second line is always changing, as if they don't know what to do with it.

    This really is the worst translated motto, I can't believe how people think it is very good just because it is faithful to the Japanese version of it. The words SHOULD fit the mouth flaps!
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  3. #18
    #1 2NE1 fan~ 투 애니원's Avatar
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    The Unova motto for the Japanese raw and Kanto motto for the dub. I agree with PTOldMan, the dub ruined the motto. It may be accurate but it just loses the quality the raw has.

  4. #19
    Registered User PropellorYoshi1808's Avatar
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    I loved the Kanto motto, but mainly because of the music. The Unova motto is closely translated (the Kanto one kind of half was), and I like Jessie's and James's allusions to Reshirom and Zekrom. Plus the animation is really well done (especially in BW023/25).
    And I agree with Dogasu, they only usd the new music like, 5 times and now they just re-use the Sinnoh motto theme (sometimes, other times they just use random background music). They should either go back to the Unova music, or use the Kanto music. I'd prefer the Unova music since it's new and specific to this series, but if they have to reuse old music, I'd prefer the Kanto tune.


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  5. #20
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    Quote Originally Posted by PTOldMan
    Jessie starts talking way too soon in this episode in her second line. She almost says half of the sentence before her face appears!
    It's like that in the original, too. If the dub had waited for her to start saying her motto when we could actually see her face, they would have literally only had one second for her to say the first part of the motto.

    You'll also notice that James' face was on-screen a lot longer than Jessie's was.

    This really is the worst translated motto, I can't believe how people think it is very good just because it is faithful to the Japanese version of it. The words SHOULD fit the mouth flaps!
    It does fit the mouthflaps. That's why it has to get rewritten so often; the dub has to change it depending on how many mouthflaps they have to work with in any given episode.

    It's been like that since the very first series.

    And the Unova motto really is the most faithfully translated motto. There really isn't anything to debate there.
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  6. #21
    Registered User PTOldMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    It's like that in the original, too. If the dub had waited for her to start saying her motto when we could actually see her face, they would have literally only had one second for her to say the first part of the motto.

    You'll also notice that James' face was on-screen a lot longer than Jessie's was.
    The difference is that while Musashi only says "Future" before her face appears, Jessie has to say "Bringing the blinding white". Almost the triple of what Musashi says! And it does make a difference! What bugs me is that Jessie has to say her line much faster than Musashi has to, which only means one thing: too many syllables. And this is not an opinion, it's a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    It does fit the mouthflaps. That's why it has to get rewritten so often; the dub has to change it depending on how many mouthflaps they have to work with in any given episode.

    It's been like that since the very first series.
    But that is not a good thing. It's not as if we are talking about variations, we're talking about things that change just because they have to change. James can either say "blackness of the universe", "black darkness of the universe", "black universe", etc. And I'm not even mentioning the last line of the motto, which changes as frequently as this James's line.
    It shouldn't change this often. It is as if a city was called a different thing every time it is mentioned. The motto should be like a term, coherent with previous episodes, aside from variation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    And the Unova motto really is the most faithfully translated motto. There really isn't anything to debate there.
    I'm not saying it isn't, I just think that that is not necessarily a good thing. We are not talking about a subbed version of Pokémon, in which things should be exactly the same as the original version, we are talking about a dub, in which a translator should worry about mouth flaps and the length of the sentences (to avoid things like those that happen with the Unova motto, with Jessie and James have to work their butts off in order to say their lines).
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  7. #22
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    Quote Originally Posted by PTOldMan
    The difference is that while Musashi only says "Future" before her face appears, Jessie has to say "Bringing the blinding white". Almost the triple of what Musashi says!
    This is how foreign language dubs work. Things that sound good in one language don't necessarily sound good in another, so some things are rewritten to flow better in the new language. While "Future! The white future is the color of evil" sounds fine to a Japanese speaker, it's obvious that TPCI felt that it didn't. All the elements of the original are still there, just rearranged to flow better in English.

    The motto should be like a term, coherent with previous episodes, aside from variation.
    It's not the dub's fault. Different episodes have a different amount of mouthflaps in the motto; there is no consistency. Japanese people, in general, aren't as hung up over mouth flaps as Westerners tend to be so they don't really care one way or the other. But for the English dub producers, adjusting the motto to account for the change in mouth flaps is a must.

    The universe examples you cited are a great example of this, since all those variations have different syllable counts. "Black darkness of the universe" is used when they have more mouth flaps to work with while "black universe" is used when they have fewer.

    If they just copied and pasted the audio, as you seem to want them to do, people would complain that they were being lazy and half-assing everything.

    Remember how James used to say "James" during the Kanto motto yet his mouth moved three times? Do we really want a repeat of that?
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  8. #23
    Registered User PTOldMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    This is how foreign language dubs work. Things that sound good in one language don't necessarily sound good in another, so some things are rewritten to flow better in the new language. While "Future! The white future is the color of evil" sounds fine to a Japanese speaker, it's obvious that TPCI felt that it didn't. All the elements of the original are still there, just rearranged to flow better in English.
    You are right when you say that things are rewritten to flow better in the new language, however, the fact is that it doesn't flow better the way it is written. That's why in some episodes we had Jessie saying "Bringing" and then we have a long pause, or James saying "Thrusting" followed by another long pause. The truth is that things aren't well written!


    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    It's not the dub's fault. Different episodes have a different amount of mouthflaps in the motto; there is no consistency. Japanese people, in general, aren't as hung up over mouth flaps as Westerners tend to be so they don't really care one way or the other. But for the English dub producers, adjusting the motto to account for the change in mouth flaps is a must.

    The universe examples you cited are a great example of this, since all those variations have different syllable counts. "Black darkness of the universe" is used when they have more mouth flaps to work with while "black universe" is used when they have fewer.
    You are proving me right! The motto has way too many syllables! Kojirou doesn't need to change his line every week. The voice actor is the one who should try to make the line fit the mouth flaps, which is easier when the lines have fewer syllables. I think it is obvious that what the English translators are doing is to try to temporarily fix the mess they've made with the motto. I can't believe how you, of all the people, think that that is a positive thing. Kojirou always has the same line, and it fits the mouth flaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    If they just copied and pasted the audio, as you seem to want them to do, people would complain that they were being lazy and half-assing everything.

    Remember how James used to say "James" during the Kanto motto yet his mouth moved three times? Do we really want a repeat of that?
    But I haven't said that I want them to copy and paste the audio. I just think that when the translator wrote the motto he forgot that he was writing it for a dubbed version, and didn't care about the number of syllables. When this happens, things don't usually work well. And that is what is happening with the motto.
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  9. #24
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    Quote Originally Posted by PTOldMan
    hat's why in some episodes we had Jessie saying "Bringing" and then we have a long pause, or James saying "Thrusting" followed by another long pause.
    That has everything to do with the animation. Not much the writers can do about that.

    Kojirou doesn't need to change his line every week.
    He does when the number of mouth flaps changes every week.

    Kojirou always has the same line, and it fits the mouth flaps.
    Not always. But, like I said before, voices matching the mouth flaps isn't as big a priority in Japan as it is in other countries. They simply don't care if characters continue speaking after their mouths are closed or if their mouths keep moving even after they've stopped talking.

    I just think that when the translator wrote the motto he forgot that he was writing it for a dubbed version, and didn't care about the number of syllables.
    He most certainly did. Otherwise the motto wouldn't fit with the mouth flaps on screen. And it most certainly does.
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  10. #25
    Registered User PropellorYoshi1808's Avatar
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    Honestly TPCi altering James's 2nd line isn't that bad. It's not a drastic change, it's just altering the wording to fit the lip flaps. It they kept it as "Thrusting the hammer of justice down onto the black darkness of the universe" in every episode with their motto, it would either run over, or be so rushed that it wouldn't be worth it to keep.

    And stuff like this happened in the Kanto motto too. Since "Prepare for trouble" and "Make it double" don't take as long to say as "Nanda kanda to kikaretara" and "Kotaete ageru no ga yo no nasake", they had to alter the lines in nearly every episode, which is why in the majority of the Orange Archipelago, Johto, and Hoenn episodes they altered them to somthing like "Prepare for trouble, you little nurse!" and "You make it double, we'll make it worse!" (Which is why I wish that their first two lines in the dub were somthing like "Don't be frightened _____" "Allow us to reintroduce ourselves" like it was in their first appearance).


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  11. #26
    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    Kanto motto Kanto theme XDD That was the most Team Rocket-ish XDD I loved it and the parodies XDD

  12. #27
    メイの大切な彼氏 FANG-TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    The first Japanese one is the most catchy.

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  13. #28
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    I really love the original one, yet I think that DP's one is more complete, because it is bigger and has better music.

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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Favorite Motto?

    Tie between Kanto, Kanto theme and Unova. Nuff said.

    Worst? Diamond and Pearl.

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