Thread: Tier Discussion

I personally think only Drizzle should be banned and like Angad said, Garchomp. Sand isn't really broken unless Garchomp is on the team (Excadrill isn't as threatening, Imo). But Drizzle can make so many pokemon very threatening. Like Specs Tornadus with Hurricane, Shell Smash Gorebyss, Ferrothorn (Not really threatening, but annoying), etc.

actually, if drizzle gets banned, then i'm sure that sand stream will follow..
This gen sandstorm abusers have increased..
i'm not just talking about excadrill and landorus..
Any one who doesnt take damage in a ss is its abuser..
therefore,scizor, ferrothorn,reuniclus, are all ss abusers..
Remember , ss causes passive damage..
I read this somewhere but in a 40 turn battle, ss will cause 250% damage..
therefore without drizzle to check sand stream, people will definitely push for a ss ban..

It's not nearly as bad as you making it sound. Very few teams don't have at least one member immune to sandstorm.

Originally Posted by Angad

It's not nearly as bad as you making it sound. Very few teams don't have at least one member immune to sandstorm.

That is because ss is so common..if ss is banned, then many of these pokes will be used less often..

nah, scizor is scizor with out without SS. Same with skarm. Only sand sweepers will decrease in usage.

Originally Posted by coolking503

nah, scizor is scizor with out without SS. Same with skarm. Only sand sweepers will decrease in usage.

swampert? hell even ttar loses its bulk without ss..

Swampert shouldn't be used in comparison of Quagsire. Quagsire is too good, Swampert is Swampert with and without SS. Name any pokemon outside of T-tar, Garchomp, Excadrill, and Landorus influenced greatly by Sandstorm.

Originally Posted by Angad

Swampert shouldn't be used in comparison of Quagsire. Quagsire is too good, Swampert is Swampert with and without SS. Name any pokemon outside of T-tar, Garchomp, Excadrill, and Landorus influenced greatly by Sandstorm.

Hippowdon..he is useless without sandstream..
And as for all the pokes u named..all of them are top tier but if sandstorm disappears, then the entire metagame will change because some pokes are used simply for the sake of beating the threats u mentioned..
And all those steel types are used simply because steel has the highest no. of resistances, including the resistance to dragon attacks..
If dragon attacks are not considered, then i will honestly have to say that gliscor is better than skarmory right now..

I would honestly say that gliscor the second best defensive pokemon in the metagame behind ferrothorn. It stops full sandstorm teams, is the reason mixtar exists, and holds its own against rain stall and drought teams. Skarmory, however, can set up spikes for a stall team allowing ferrothorn to run an extra move, and has recovery over ferrothorn, so ferrothorn can stick to SR and run 3 moves. Of course, the overlapping weaknesses are bad, but you pretty much need 2 steel types if one lacks recovery nowadays.

Originally Posted by coolking503

I would honestly say that gliscor the second best defensive pokemon in the metagame behind ferrothorn. It stops full sandstorm teams, is the reason mixtar exists, and holds its own against rain stall and drought teams. Skarmory, however, can set up spikes for a stall team allowing ferrothorn to run an extra move, and has recovery over ferrothorn, so ferrothorn can stick to SR and run 3 moves. Of course, the overlapping weaknesses are bad, but you pretty much need 2 steel types if one lacks recovery nowadays.

Yeah, ok..but what i m arguing is that if ss gets banned, then the metagame will change..

Originally Posted by coolking503

I would honestly say that gliscor the second best defensive pokemon in the metagame behind ferrothorn. It stops full sandstorm teams, is the reason mixtar exists, and holds its own against rain stall and drought teams.

I think it's safe to say that MixTar also exists for the purpose of defeating defensive steels like Skarmory and Ferrothorn. MixTar can definitely help beat Gliscor, but it primarily acts as a general wallbreaker/team supporter.

Originally Posted by Heathcliff Huxtable

I think it's safe to say that MixTar also exists for the purpose of defeating defensive steels like Skarmory and Ferrothorn. MixTar can definitely help beat Gliscor, but it primarily acts as a general wallbreaker/team supporter.

actually, without ss to boost its spdef, ttar becomes vulnerable to even latios..

Gliscor, as I mentioned, screws over sand teams with standard pokemon like the Land genie and excadrill. mixtar stops their main counter, as well as skarm and ferrothorn, althought really ferrothorn doesn't wall most sand teams at all. (or maybe just mine...)

And without SS, hippo has pretty much no use since its outclassed as a pure physical wall (mostly), and Ttar, while not as bulky, is in the same category as things like rhyperior. Probably borderline OU, since really, what other strong dark types are there? Darkrai is banned, and Zoroark,Absol, And Honchkrow are way too frail.

Good point on Tyranitar being the best dark type.

Some Genies carry HP Ice for Gliscor, so the gliding scorpion isn't a totally foolproof defense against Sand teams.