Thread: NU Pokemon you wish were better?

I think Charizard has reached his zenith. Outside of a BST boost (which wouldn't be fair to the other starters) or a type change (which ain't happeening,) there's nothing I can see Charizrd getting that would greatly improve his current performance. Charizard's curses are the x4 SR weakness and being outclased by other Fire types. Thats not somethhing you fix with Earth Power.

Originally Posted by Envoy

I think Charizard has reached his zenith. Outside of a BST boost (which wouldn't be fair to the other starters) or a type change (which ain't happeening,) there's nothing I can see Charizrd getting that would greatly improve his current performance. Charizard's curses are the x4 SR weakness and being outclased by other Fire types. Thats not somethhing you fix with Earth Power.

Earth Power is needed for him to counter those rock types before unleashing SR without relying on the inaccurate Focus Blast (unless Energy Ball's the better choice for it and other special-based fire types).

Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis

Earth Power is needed for him to counter those rock types before unleashing SR without relying on the inaccurate Focus Blast (unless Energy Ball's the better choice for it and other special-based fire types).

Its not the rock types that give charizard problem.
Its 3 factors:
1)stealth rock weakness
2)bulky water types
3)the abundance of rock type attack-holders.
The 3rd point means that even non-rock types get rock attacks (like infernape).
Charizard just cant cover all of these even with its new ability.

Originally Posted by Rutvik

Its not the rock types that give charizard problem.
Its 3 factors:
1)stealth rock weakness
2)bulky water types
3)the abundance of rock type attack-holders.
The 3rd point means that even non-rock types get rock attacks (like infernape).
Charizard just cant cover all of these even with its new ability.

Then surely Charizard doesn't deserve the title as the most popular non-mascot Pokemon in the series, which saddens me. :(

I think butterfree should be much better. Without butterfree, Brock would have owned me in yellow.

It has Quiver Dance, Sleep Powder, Bug Buzz, and a choice between CompoundEyes (97.5% accurate Sleep Powder) and Tinted Lens (near-perfect neutral coverage in Bug Buzz alone). Not factoring in a BST overhaul (which will never happen), Butterfree's at its peak.

Originally Posted by SharKing

It has Quiver Dance, Sleep Powder, Bug Buzz, and a choice between CompoundEyes (97.5% accurate Sleep Powder) and Tinted Lens (near-perfect neutral coverage in Bug Buzz alone). Not factoring in a BST overhaul (which will never happen), Butterfree's at its peak.

Unless it were to get a move that would always hit and be a one-hit KO (I'm thinking they would call it Jugular Stab), I agree.

Castform because it's got such a useful movepool, and Ariados and Furret because I love them lol

Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis

Earth Power is needed for him to counter those rock types before unleashing SR without relying on the inaccurate Focus Blast (unless Energy Ball's the better choice for it and other special-based fire types).

Its not the rock types that he has to be afraid of. Common pokemon that set up stealth rock include Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Swampert. He already has an advantage against two of those and lets face it, once they've done their job, they have no reason to stick around.

Hypothetical battle time: Lets say they start a battle with Skarmory and you start one with Adorable McCutie. They set up SR on your switch to Charizard and you're already screwed. Next turn, they'll switch Skarmory to their Charizardkiller4000 and you'll have to switch out yourself if you wanna survive. SR is now on the field and next time you summon Charizard, he'll lose half his health. Throw in solar power recoil, possible LO recoil and the chance that you'll switch into an attack and Charizrd practically kills himself.

That's why Rapid Spin will forever be an absolute necessity when using Charizard. Otherwise, it's practically dead weight.

Originally Posted by SharKing

It has Quiver Dance, Sleep Powder, Bug Buzz, and a choice between CompoundEyes (97.5% accurate Sleep Powder) and Tinted Lens (near-perfect neutral coverage in Bug Buzz alone). Not factoring in a BST overhaul (which will never happen), Butterfree's at its peak.

If smogon says it's outclassed by Venemoth when it comes to Quiver Dance, then you bet Butterfree needs to improve its niche more.

That's why Rapid Spin will forever be an absolute necessity when using Charizard. Otherwise, it's practically dead weight.

Then I can't use Charizard in my dream team. I can't even even pick one of the fire/fighting types because Lucario's included on my dream team, and neither Typholsion because it's not my favorite (I'm planning on using three different starters from three different regions for it).

Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis

If smogon says it's outclassed by Venemoth when it comes to Quiver Dance, then you bet Butterfree needs to improve its niche more.

There's practically nothing logical that it can do for that, though. When NU comes, Butterfree will drop there. Of course, I predict that it'll shine there. It might be the Volcarona of NU: extremely weak to Stealth Rock, but a freakin' monster after enough Quiver Dances.

Originally Posted by SharKing

There's practically nothing logical that it can do for that, though. When NU comes, Butterfree will drop there. Of course, I predict that it'll shine there. It might be the Volcarona of NU: extremely weak to Stealth Rock, but a freakin' monster after enough Quiver Dances.

But it's also important for Pokemon to avoid being in NU because it means an eternity of being mocked by snobby players, who are dominating today's competitive battles from other series.

How would it compare with the other Butterfly Dancers? Mothim has a higher Special Attack, Air Slash, and Tinted Lens, but it has slightly lower speed. Masquerain has Intimidate, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Scald, Air Slash, slower and weaker than both, loses Psychic, but gets Baton Pass instead. The other two are just jokes, so I didn't include them.

Originally Posted by SharKing

That's why Rapid Spin will forever be an absolute necessity when using Charizard. Otherwise, it's practically dead weight.

Precisely. Now to put it in perspective. Why do I have to waste a slot on a spinner so Charizard can sweep when things like Heatran and the monkeys do the job just as well with a lot less support and less (or no) weakness to Stealth Rock?