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  1. #106
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    The absence of held items would definitely favor some playstyles more than others. Although stall and semi-stall would probably become popular, I think that heavy offensive teams with Dragons + Magnezone could also be very effective in such a metagame. The lack of Shed Shell, for example, would give heavy offense a distinct advantage over other playstyles by diminishing the effectiveness of defensive steel types.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathcliff Huxtable View Post
    Assuming Swift Swim + Drizzle is still banned, I highly doubt that Swift Swim would increase Gyarados's usage at all.

    IMO, what sets Gyarados apart from other physical water types is its good defensive typing combined with Intimidate. Gyarados's ability to set-up on forced switches made it a fairly reliable sweeper, especially in metagames such as pre-Salamence ban DPP OU. With Swift Swim in place of Intimidate, Gyarados would become little more than a Swords Dance-less Kabutops with a resistance to Mach Punch and Bullet Punch.
    I think that Dragon Dance is the main thing that sets Gyarados apart--it improves both parts of the sweeping equation--speed and power. Gyarados has modest bulk otherwise even without Intimidate.

    And Gyarados has Taunt, which makes for very, very effective setup. Apart from that, it's all a question of chossing 2 offensive moves, and determining an EV spread.

    Swift Swim would be best for shooting off a fast Taunt, but it wouldn't necessarily be a tradeoff of force-out power. Swift Swim would make Gyarados an immediate bruiser/threat right off the bat, before a DD, and much more capable of a KO. There would be quite a few difference between a Swift Swim Gyarados and a Swift Swim Kabutops anyway--Gyarados would be more threatening without Rain, and would possess bulk. (Kabutops, to sweep without Rain, needs either Aqua Jet, a weak move that can hardly sweep teams by itself, or Rock Polish.)

    The differences you've named I think are large differences. Scizor and Conkeldurr are much more capable of stopping a Kabutops sweep, for its typing, weaknesses, and lack of bulk.

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    A battling world without items? It'd be a large change, and thus probably shouldn't be speculated on so much. I generally agree with Dwebble, that neither offense nor defense or stall would really see their stocks rise. If anything though, it'd be status moves that would rise in usage, as status would be a lot harder to deal with, and wouldn't be self-inflicted (aside from the use of Rest--which would become a better move, btw).
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    What would a Flareon with Flare Blitz and Sacred Fire be like? Would it boost it up to OU? I personally think it still wouldn't be very good due to its horrible speed.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwebble View Post
    So offensive will lose the ability to use a few Pokémon to their full potential - big deal? The same applies for defensive Pokémon, too. You're focusing on how offensive Pokémon will lose out in this scenario, and I agree with you that they will - hugely - but defensive Pokémon would be affected too. You mention how Tricking wouldn't be an option for offensive Pokémon any more, but at the same time, this gets rid of that threat to offensive Pokémon. Offensive Pokémon would lose Choice items, a set of items deemed crucial in using a Pokémon's full potential, but defensive Pokémon would lose items that they need, too, as I said - Eviolites, Leftovers, Berries (Lum, mostly). I know it's your opinion, and I respect it, but I don't understand how you can think stall wouldn't be affected at all, and other play-styles would suddenly become inferior.
    Hyper-Offensive teams often love getting tricked items.The problem is that defensive pokes can live without Leftovers,Eviolite,etc.I think that the only pokemon who would be in trouble would be Skarmory, thanks to shed-shell.
    Offensive teams lose substantial power on the other hand.I can't stress,how important that little bit of power can make in Pokemon.

    @League

    Honestly swift swim would be outclassed by Intimidate.
    As long as Swift Swim + Drizzle is banned,Swift Swim pokes are not even viable.

    @NintendoGamer

    He'll be outclassed more or less by Darmanitan even if he gets Flare Blitz.
    Last edited by Lord Clowncrete; 30th August 2011 at 04:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rutvik View Post
    Hyper-Offensive teams often love getting tricked items.The problem is that defensive pokes can live without Leftovers,Eviolite,etc.I think that the only pokemon who would be in trouble would be Skarmory, thanks to shed-shell.
    Offensive teams lose substantial power on the other hand.I can't stress,how important that little bit of power can make in Pokemon.
    In the same way defensive Pokémon will be able to live and function without their items, offensive Pokémon will still function too, albeit probably relying more on boosting moves. I wouldn't really think Pokémon that lose their Eviolites would function nearly as well as at the moment, or be used nearly as much as now.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwebble View Post
    In the same way defensive Pokémon will be able to live and function without their items, offensive Pokémon will still function too, albeit probably relying more on boosting moves. I wouldn't really think Pokémon that lose their Eviolites would function nearly as well as at the moment, or be used nearly as much as now.
    Eviolite isn't too useful anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rutvik View Post
    Eviolite isn't too useful anyway.
    Maybe not in OU.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwebble View Post
    Maybe not in OU.
    Only in UU and chansey/Dusclops can function without eviolite like they did back in Gen4 UU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rutvik View Post
    Only in UU and chansey/Dusclops can function without eviolite like they did back in Gen4 UU.
    Yeah, Eviolite just makes them much better.

    And LC, where pretty much everything uses Eviolite now.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwebble View Post
    Yeah, Eviolite just makes them much better.

    And LC, where pretty much everything uses Eviolite now.
    This is very true indeed.I fully agree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by NintendoGamer View Post
    What would a Flareon with Flare Blitz and Sacred Fire be like? Would it boost it up to OU? I personally think it still wouldn't be very good due to its horrible speed.
    Flareon with Flare Blitz would be extremely outclassed by almost any other fire type that could learn the move. Flareon needs much more than a slightly broader movepool to become viable even in the lower tiers.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathcliff Huxtable View Post
    Flareon with Flare Blitz would be extremely outclassed by almost any other fire type that could learn the move. Flareon needs much more than a slightly broader movepool to become viable even in the lower tiers.
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Even with STAB Flare Blitz comin' off base 130 Attack, it's clear that Flareon will never be OU, namely because of its shallow movepool; aside from Superpower, its best coverage move is Return. I see a problem, mate.
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  14. #119
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Well, what would Sacred Fire do for Flareon?

    Much love to Zurr

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angad View Post
    Well, what would Sacred Fire do for Flareon?
    It would have less of an effect than Flare Blitz. Flare Blitz has more Base Power than Sacred Fire, as well as higher accuracy and more PP. The 50% chance of burning with Sacred Fire is nice, though.

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