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  1. #556
    Prayers to Oak Creek Angad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by scheisskopf View Post
    a few things:

    What if Raikou could use all of its event moves with any nature, not just Rash?

    Although I don't think Raikou's necessarily bad, I feel like it's forced to be restricted to a generic Electric-type's movepool or run a nature that doesn't complement it well. Although Raikou enjoys the extra special attack, I feel like it would seriously appreciate the extra speed with moves like Aura Sphere and Weather Ball. With Timid, Raikou hits 361 Speed - more than sufficient to outpace Tornadus, Terrakion, and Gengar and tie with Starmie. Although I don't think this would necessarily push Raikou to OU, as it would still face stiff competition for a team slot from the likes of Jolteon - who has Volt Absorb (I don't think Raikou's DW ability has yet been released, nor am I sure if it ever will be) and Thundurus-T, who not only has Volt Absorb but an array of resistances, Nasty Plot, and Agility over Raikou. Although the sabertooth tiger has advantages over both, most notably its superior bulk, I'm not quite sure if it'd make the cut for OU.

    It might very well be OU, Raikou might take up Jolteon's niche as it is significantly bulkier, stronger, and would have the coverage of champions (Ferrothorn is no longer a counter). Jolteon's fast, sure, but it is pretty excessive at 130 Base Speed, where 115 hits the pretty much the same threats. Thundurus-T is cool and all, but considering its strengths, it is too slow (by this gen's standards, anything below 108 is slow) to not warrant a scarf, which, of course, locks it in and puts it at risk. NP sounds powerful, but Thundurus-T is still easily revenged, and Agility doesn't seem to give enough for the effort in getting an Agility up. I could just be biased in favor of scarf, though. Thundurus-T doesn't really use its resistances much, with the ground immunity being useful for switch-ins and avoiding both types of spikes, but the other resistances (fighting and grass) being forgettable either due to coverage being common in the case of the former or not being very present in the case of the sooner. Being SR weak is bad for switching in, and an ice type weakness can be a burden from time to time. Thundurus-T's main advantage is its coverage, which would, obviously, be a non-issue after the fact.

    What if Gengar got Prankster as its Dream World ability?

    In my opinion, part of the allure of running Gengar is how it's relatively easy to switch in: with three immunities, two of which belong to very common offensive types, you can generally switch the phantom in on one of your opponent's Pokemon. Although Prankster sort of takes away from that by stripping Gengar of its Ground immunity, I think it offers a myriad of interesting possibilities: Gengar has a plethora of support options, one of the most notable among which is Destiny Bond. So, uh, I guess what I'm trying to say is that Gengar gets priority Destiny Bond with Prankster, in addition to a number of appealing support options, such as Will-o-Wisp, Hypnosis, Taunt, and (lol) Haze. Grudge is a gimmicky option, but I could see it being used as a way to handle mono-attackers, I suppose. Prankster Gengar seems like an interesting idea, especially when you consider that your opponent is almost never going to hit you with a Ground-type move.

    Sounds cool, but I think there would be many a situation where I'd rather use Levitate. Gengar is pretty fast as it is. Sub Disable would be godly, but its other sets don't really take immediate advantage of it. The only moves I could imagine would be worth using, going from highest likelihood of viability to lowest likelihood of viability, are: Substitute, Taunt, Disable, Destiny Bond, Pain Split, Haze (Always being able to shut down sweepers is pretty great), Torment, Psych Up, Will-O-Wisp, Trick, the weather moves, and then Hypnosis. And a lot of those are extremely situational. Being able to absorb T-Spikes is cool, but with that, the fact that one is not using Levitate can be figured out pretty quickly, considering Spikes isn't entirely uncommon. It is sort of how using Heatproof Bronzong doesn't really trick anyone either. It would still be a great ability to have, though.
    What if Meloetta didn't have to use Relic Song to change forms?

    Remember the short-lived hype about Meloetta-P? Remember how excited people were to have a Fighting-type with such ridiculous stats -- 128 Attack and Speed -- and good enough coverage? Yeah, uh, do you remember the crushing disappointment when people discovered that you would always start with Meloetta-A, and if you wanted to use Meloetta-P you would have to use Relic Song? What if that were just a joke? Mel-P would be one of the most immediately threatening Pokemon in the game, gifted with a superb Attack stat and phenomenal Speed. Although it doesn't have any good boosting moves (its best is Hone Claws, and that speaks for itself, lol), Mel-P would be a very intimidating threat in today's metagame. It could potentially run a CB or LO set with Ice Punch / Close Combat / Return / Shadow Claw or U-turn as a wallbreaker of sorts, outspeeding virtually everything without a Scarf with its blistering 390 Speed (it actually outpaces Adamant +1 Dragonite by two points!) and hitting pretty much everything hard; as a testament to its power, Skarmory has a good chance of being 2HKOed with Stealth Rock. It's unfortunately very susceptible to status - Burn and Paralysis in particular ruin everything good about it - but I feel like it could very well be a top-tier threat.

    Agree 100%, it was always a shame that it had to locked away within Mel-A.
    What if Weavile received Technician?

    I feel like a lot of people use Weavile. Quite a few of them -- most of them, actually -- aren't very good players, but still. Weavile is a classic example of a good Pokemon crippled by having really weak STAB moves. Unfortunately, most of its STAB moves are out of the range for Technician (curse that damnable 75 BP mark), but it would greatly appreciate the extra buff to its Ice Shard. There's also... something really interesting: Beat Up. Beat Up now has 25 BP with every attack, meaning that Weavile now has a move comparable in power to Eruption, assuming that all members of the party are alive and healthy. If it uses a Choice Band, then, well... everything dies. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi will get OHKOed sometimes if all six members of your team are healthy. Yeah, Weavile is that strong.

    Bite would pretty snazzy at 90 BP, so don't forget about that. Faint Attack doesn't miss and is the same BP, although it doesn't flinch. Low Sweep is now an option as well, but I still Low Kick would be used more, especially with Technician compensating for lighter foes. Pursuit also becomes less risky to use. Double Hit goes to 105 BP, but shouldn't be used as Weavile is pushing for coverage as it is.
    What if Moltres had Magic Guard?

    One thing that I feel that people fail to realize about Moltres is that it's a very usable Pokemon, even in OU. It certainly requires a lot of team support and it isn't as immediately powerful or as threatening as, say, Volcarona, but it can certainly pose a surprisingly large threat to a variety of teams, most of which are not well equipped to deal with its meaty STAB Hurricanes or Fire Blasts -- even in Rain, FB will do a sizable chunk of damage to most things. It's a mediocre Pokemon, yes, and one that I would not readily recommend to inexperienced players, but when used correctly can blow holes into an opponent's team and even pull off a sweep. But here's an interesting question - what if Moltres' crippling weakness to arguably the most common move in the game were totally eliminated? Magic Guard is a ridiculous boon to the phoenix, making it invulnerable to Stealth Rock, Toxic, and Leech Seed damage in addition to Life Orb recoil. Although Moltres doesn't have the greatest offensive movepool - its options are essentially restricted to Hidden Power, U-turn, a Fire move, and either Hurricane or Air Slash - it has one of the best Special Attack stats in the game. Obviously, with Magic Guard, Moltres would become a lot better, and I would almost go as far as to say it would become OU; with its array of resistances and immunities, it could certainly function as a "pivot" of sorts, checking special Landorus and Scizor, for instance, and it has access to Will-o-Wisp and Toxic if it needs to perform a more supportive role on a team.

    Also, uh, Moltres pairs excellently with Dugtrio, especially on Rain teams. There is a noticeable dearth of Flying resistances that aren't weak to Earthquake (Skarmory's the only one that immediately comes to mind, and if you're using Skarmory to stop Moltres, you should probably reevaluate how you play this game lol), and, well, U-turn Moltres and Dugtrio seems like a very effective way to apply pressure to Sun- and Sand-based teams because of this. Dugtrio takes no prisoners - literally. Heatran, Tyranitar, and Jirachi are all decimated by Earthquake, being either OHKOed or crippled to the point where they can no longer switch in on Moltres. I'm not really sure if this change would make Moltres "too good," but I feel like it would be an extremely good Pokemon, possibly mid-high tier OU? There are still things to stop it - Dragonite is more than capable of taking a Hurricane with Multiscale up, and Blissey and Chansey can take it for obvious reasons, though they aren't that good anymore imo (Blissey is also somewhat susceptible to Dugtrio trapping); Calm Mind Latias handles it well enough, but absolutely hates taking Hurricanes if it doesn't have a Calm Mind up (Modest Hurricane does like ~60% minimum to 252/0 Latias, and even then it's sort of uncertain whether it'll win because of Hurricane's ridiculous confusion rate). Truth be told, I'm not sure how much would be able to deal with Moltres without the aegis of Stealth Rock.

    Magic Guard is amazing for almost any pokemon, especially Moltres. Latias would definitely be playing a lot bulkier. Nothing really gonna be able to switch in well with it plus Dugtrio, it'd be Genesect 2 although it would be easily revenged, especially in the rain.
    Forgive me for the poor wording/grammar, I'm really tired

    Much love to Zurr

  2. #557

    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    What if Tyranitar received Rapid Spin?

    RIP stall?

    What if Ursaring were Normal/Fighting and received and Extremespeed?

    Granted, this isn't going to put Smokey in OU, but it certainly makes it a lot more threatening that it would normally be. It might even be pugnacious enough to strike fear into your opponents! Extremespeed would make Ursaring one of the best priority abusers in the game; as a testament to Ursaring's power, +1 Extremespeed will KO Keldeo (who, by the way, is no slouch defensively, with 91 HP / 90 Def / 90 SDef) from 73%. With its new Fighting-type, Ursaring receives resistances to both Rock- and Bug-type moves, which actually could be useful in spite of its subpar defenses... a set with something like Extremespeed / Close Combat / Protect or Facade / Shadow Claw @ Flame Orb could be fairly interesting in the lower tiers and it seems pretty meaty.

    What if Heracross received Speed Boost?

    Heracross is a good Pokemon cursed by its mediocre Speed stat and a rather troubling lack of coverage. Speed Boost remediates one of its inherent issues: that mediocre 85 base Speed. Heracross has very few actual counters: its main checks are the things that outspeed and can kill it, but with Speed Boost, those things aren't outpacing Heracross anymore. With a moveset of Protect / Swords Dance or Stone Edge / Megahorn / Close Combat, Heracross becomes incredibly threatening once it gets going. Heracross has a few decent resistances and passable defenses (80/75/95), so it has opportunities to set up unlike DEATH SHARK, with its absolutely dismal defenses and poor defensive typing. Although Sharpedo is significantly harder to wall than Heracross (hey, Landorus-T and Gliscor!), Heracross has considerably stronger STAB moves. I'd imagine that Landorus-T usage would skyrocket if Heracross received Speed Boost and perhaps there would be an influx of Hidden Power Flying Landorus to deal with it.

    (I figure that if Blaziken can get Speed Boost, hey, Heracross could too)

  3. #558

    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    What if Whimsicott got Calm Mind?

    Just imagine: Calm Mind, Cotton Guard, Giga Drain, and the pick of Taunt(for trolling), U-Turn(for passing its boosts), or Hurricane(on a rain team). With Prankster and a Big Root, and some EV investment in Def and Sp. Def, and possibly a little in Speed for shits and giggles, Whimsicott would be able to set up with Cotton Guard in three turns before going on to Calm Mind itself into a specially based death machine that heals itself as it destroys. Its ability lets it get a survivor's Cotton Guard off, and then a Calm Mind or two so it can Giga Drain itself back to health before resuming the boost parade.
    Last edited by Spirit Zorua; 22nd August 2013 at 10:34 PM.

  4. #559
    I won't bite... much. SharKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Zorua View Post
    U-Turn(for passing its boosts)
    U-turn doesn't work like that.

    Anyway, it seems interesting, but it would be pretty weak to Special attacks, what with the slow boosting to Special Defense. It's also foiled by Dragon Tail.
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  5. #560
    Can't stop the rain ☆ Saeyru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    That annoyer set would be awesome, but I imagine that it would be completely walled by just about any grass-type with a decent defense (which it can then just recover off U-turn damage). Primary examples are Shaymin and Venusaur; there's not much that Whimsicott can do against the former bar U-turn, but this could be quickly fixed if one has set up enough CMs. Keep in mind however, that this is entirely situational and that it is possible for Whimsicott to wall Shaymin in a sense with Calm Mind, but it cannot do any actual damage to it.

    Concerning Venusaur (especially since it's in sun pretty much all the time) it just gets torn apart by Sludge bomb. Without Substitute, there's nothing for Whimsy to protect it from attacks with a secondary chance of status, so it'll pretty much get the full brunt of the attack (even worse if Venusaur is strengthened by +2 Growth). IF it has Giga Drain/Hurricane, then it's completely walled by 'zong, who will probably shut it down by putting it to sleep or something. That and, as the above poster has stated, Dragon Tail (this gets used more commonly in Ubers, I believe) ruins the strategy completely, especially if there are hazards up as Whimsicott cannot handle hazard damage if it doesn't have a recovery move if it's running a set of CM/Cotton Guard/Giga Drain/Hurricane. It would have to sacrifice one coverage move or one defensive move for Synthesis and that would leave it open for either physical or special attacks. x_x Or just stall if it's a coverage move.

    That's all I can come up with for now, but a lot of mons are perfectly able to stop Whimsicott, even after a boost or two, sadly. It's special attack isn't terrible, but it isn't great either and needs quite the set up in order to do any significant damage.

    Also @ Speed Boost Heracross, I believe that would also be ridiculously powerful, and that....well there's not many checks that I can even think of bar Landorus, as you said. @_@ Perhaps stalling it could work if it's poisoned/burned, and then revenging it with Aqua Jet Azumarill, but even that's a risky tactic.
    Last edited by Saeyru; 23rd August 2013 at 11:56 AM.

  6. #561
    Registered User Anser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    What if Starmie had Flamethrower and Shadow Ball? o:

  7. #562
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    They might be rarely seen, but they are both somewhat useful. Flamethrower doesn't really need an explanation (though it is foiled by rain), and Shadow Ball can be good for punishing Spinblockers.
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  8. #563
    Can't stop the rain ☆ Saeyru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    If Starmie had fire blast, that would be a different story, however. Flamethrower by itself just doesn't seem enough to KO things such as Ferrothorn and/or Foretress. I can definitely imagine a set like Flamethrower/T-bolt/Ice Beam/Psyshock @ Life Orb, but a lot of things that flamethrower hits, Ice beam hits equally as hard, bar steel types which it could just Surf/Hydro Pump away, so that might not be the best option. u_u

  9. #564
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    What if Samurott had a Water/Fighting type?

    Defensively, I'm not sure how good that would be. Samurott's Psychic weakness wouldn't matter because of Megahorn (Due to my offensive idea, special attacking Samurott would be somewhat obsolete, but more on that later), and I don't remember the last time there was a usable flying type in NU (apart from Articuno). Offensively, it might seem pointless, given Samurott only learns two fighting moves, Rock Smash (fail) and Revenge. I am not very experienced with competitive Pokemon, but I know how Speed is an important quality. However, Revenge helps Samurott's low speed (Somewhat, anyway). Revenge makes you want to go last. I could see a set of Samurott with Swords Dance, Waterfall, Megahorn, and Revenge, holding the Lagging Tail. I wouldn't imagine it going to success in RU, but I could imagine it centralizing NU. If my theory were correct, then there would be no Sawk or Gurdurr; just Samurott.

  10. #565
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdog1020 View Post
    I don't remember the last time there was a usable flying type in NU (apart from Articuno)
    Swellow and Braviary are major contenders.
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  11. #566
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharKing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jdog1020 View Post
    I don't remember the last time there was a usable flying type in NU (apart from Articuno)
    Swellow and Braviary are major contenders.
    Sorry, I'm not good with NU. And when you think about it, if Samurott was part Fighting, its probable that it would get Stone Edge, given that most Fighting Pokemon get rock moves, so maybe they wouldn't be an issue, but you never know.

  12. #567

    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Okay, yeah, so Whimsy has a few problems. But imagine putting it in against a Rain team with all those Water-types. Giga Drain would be a bit of recovery even without CM boost, and after those it could wreck some serious shit. And even better-put Substitute on instead of Hurricane and invest in Sp. Atk and HP. Whimsy's sub would do good against rainers, and against Sandstorm too.

  13. #568

    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saeyru View Post
    If Starmie had fire blast, that would be a different story, however. Flamethrower by itself just doesn't seem enough to KO things such as Ferrothorn and/or Foretress. I can definitely imagine a set like Flamethrower/T-bolt/Ice Beam/Psyshock @ Life Orb, but a lot of things that flamethrower hits, Ice beam hits equally as hard, bar steel types which it could just Surf/Hydro Pump away, so that might not be the best option. u_u
    that's essentially what i was thinking regarding ft not being the best option. water stab on starmie is more or less a given, and i really don't like using starmie unless i'm running rapid spin, so that only allows two of flamethrower/thunderbolt/ice beam/psyshock/recover. to be honest, i think flamethrower sort of exacerbates starmie's 4mss; although it's a viable option (ohkos ferrothorn outside of rain), it doesn't really... hit anything much harder than its normal moves would aside from ferrothorn. it still can't 2hko specially defensive jirachi with flamethrower and it sort of needs ice beam and thunderbolt to hit dragons and jellicent, respectively. i don't really like running a starmie that can't beat jelli, tbh. notwithstanding the fact that it can't really hurt jellicent without thunderbolt (or psyshock i guess, though that's iffy), i could foresee some starmie eschewing thunderbolt for flamethrower. i think flamethrower would probably find the most use on the rare choice set or the lo set you posted — just as a personal preference, though, i'd use surf or hydro pump over psyshock.

    252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 343-406 (97.44 - 115.34%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO

    flamethrower does have its perquisites though. it makes starmie a lot more viable as a rapid spinner on sun teams since it acquires an ersatz stab move in flamethrower, and obviously its newfound ability to obliterate ferrothorn would be great. ironically, i think that flamethrower starmie would probably be best on sun teams, which not only benefit from having a spinner, but really appreciate having something that can at least damage things like latias, dragonite, etc. that so often become their scourge. one of the problems is that it now becomes walled by heatran of all things (!) in the sun, even if it carries hydro pump. gross. but anyway flamethrower in the sun would actually be really great on starmie, especially with analytic: you can now torch the jirachi or the celebi on the switch and render it virtually useless for the rest of the battle. nice. all kyurem still stomp on you though despite the sun boost and will blast pretty much anything with their dragon moves. less nice.

    also, the original poster of the flamethrower starmie comment also asked about shadow ball: i don't foresee it being used on starmie much at all. to my recollection, shadow ball doesn't hit anything more effectively than one hydro pump, thunderbolt, and/or ice beam would, save for the extremely uncommon gengar in sun? a super-effective shadow ball does less than a stab hydro pump would; as a corollary, an nve hydro pump would do more than a shadow ball would. thunderbolt or psyshock will hit jellicent. honestly, starmie has more use for even signal beam than shadow ball, which at least allows it to hit celebi super-effectively.

  14. #569

    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    What if there was a Sleep Orb that put the holder to sleep? If Crobat had this item, it could use a moveset of just Sleep Talk and Whirlwind to shuffle the other team for 32 turns and they could do nothing about it! I expect this to be a major strategy because you can cause chaos and still have 5 regular pokemon as backup

  15. #570
    Miniature Giant winstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karpi View Post
    What if there was a Sleep Orb that put the holder to sleep? If Crobat had this item, it could use a moveset of just Sleep Talk and Whirlwind to shuffle the other team for 32 turns and they could do nothing about it! I expect this to be a major strategy because you can cause chaos and still have 5 regular pokemon as backup
    I would say that Murkrow is an even better user, because despite being slower, Prankster makes it a bit faster than most others. It even bypasses slower priority attackers like Breloom and Scizor, making them unable to react to the situation fast enough. Still, Murkrow is rather frail so if the opponent has something like Extreme Speed, then it doesn't work quite well, which is to Crobat's advantage: the defences.

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