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  1. #136
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    I said it would remove his Spikes(immunity) + sr(resistance), a primary benefit Flygon had above dragonite and salamence
    But Tinted Lens wouldn't remove its Stealth Rock resistance. This is just going round in circles.

    And yanmega can't have Tinted lenses or Speed boost at the same time.
    Ehh, I never said it could have both at the same time. I'm not an idiot. I said it would ALSO help Tinted Lens a little - meaning Quiver Dance, as that is the topic I brought up.
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Okay, I don't get why all the comparison to other Dragons. Flygon is UU. It's a mediocre scout there, at best. It would actually do a lot with Specs TL Draco Meteor's or Banded Outrage there. Levitate is a better candidate for OU, but Flygon isn't even good in OU.

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    EV-Wizard/PeculiarBattler League's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    Banded/Specs Tinted Lens Flygon sounds so fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzle View Post
    [...]
    I originally said "What if Flygon had Tinted Lens + Dragon Dance + Quiver Dance", but everyone just latched on to shooting down Tinted Lens on its own. I think it would be pretty good with the ability + the boosting moves, but obviously that's just me.
    [...]
    I was responding to Synthesis, so the whole discussion has mainly just been about Flygon/Tinted Lens. As well, as this is all speculation, there is more... control when less is speculated about, and when more remains the same. (09/06/11 6:06 PM EST EDIT/Clarification: the more that remains the same when you theorymon, the better.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzle View Post
    lolwut? Tinted Lens Yanmega is nearly always Specs so it can break through pretty much everything.
    [...]
    Yanmega can't do anything but sweep--it's much the same as Flygon as far as movepool goes, in that it has few support, defensive, or status moves it likes to use. (It has Hypnosis, Protect, and Tailwind, and the first two are more potent with Speed Boost--and I still contend that Tinted Lens is best used for condensing movepools.)

    Yanmega also doesn't like having Choice Scarf, as it can hit 1.5 speed easily enough without it, whilst still maintaining the ability to choose between moves. So there is ultimately only one Choice item that makes sense with either ability. (And all of Yanmega's sets are offensive, so a Choice item is an obvious candidate for an item to pair it with. But I think Life Orb/Speed Boost is Yanmega's most potent offensive combo--otherwise, I admit that I overlooked Yanmega.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzle View Post
    [...]
    What if Yanmega had Quiver Dance?

    Its main rivals would be Venomoth and Volcarona. Venomoth has Sleep Powder for easier setup, and Volcarona is faster and stronger but also shares its 4x Stealth Rock weakness. I think the selling point would be Speed Boost. In one turn going to +1 Sp.Atk, +1 Sp.Def and +2 Speed would be pretty neat. It Quiver Dance would also help Tinted Lens a little, I guess. Thoughts?
    Now Quiver Dance would go well with Tinted Lens--obviously, one pokemon already has the Tinted Lens/Quiver Dance combo (Venemoth), and uses it well. Quiver Dance makes a little less sense with Speed Boost as well--well, kinda... there is some reason you might want to pair the two up.

    Anyway, with Quiver Dance, Yanmega would boast a Ground immunity, something neither Volcarona or Venemoth have. Its lowest stat--indeed, its only low stat concerning its function--is its special defense, so Yanmega would pack considerable bulk.

    Quiver Dance Yanmega could probably make use of Roost, and Hypnosis, making a lonely offensive move (and Tinted Lens) a very good choice.
    Last edited by League; 6th September 2011 at 05:08 PM.
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  4. #139
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by League View Post
    I was responding to Synthesis, so the whole discussion has mainly just been about Flygon/Tinted Lens.
    I was talking to HH. He said Flygon was a bad user of Tinted Lens for a number of reasons, one being it had no boosting moves. So I was saying that my original post in this thread was Tinted Lens + two boosting moves - which nobody took into account when discussing Tinted Lens Flygon before which is the reason it wasn't being discussed now.

    Yanmega can't do anything but sweep...
    SpecsLens Yanmega isn't a sweeper. It's a wallbreaker and is meant to severly dent anything that tries to switch in and/or take a hit. It won't sweep because 95 base speed with no boosts is just not made to sweep and will be revenged easily.

    Yanmega also doesn't like having Choice Scarf, as it can hit 1.5 speed easily enough without it, whilst still maintaining the ability to choose between moves. So there is ultimately only one Choice item that makes sense with either ability. (And all of Yanmega's sets are offensive, so a Choice item is an obvious candidate for an item to pair it with. But I think Life Orb/Speed Boost is Yanmega's most potent offensive combo--otherwise, I admit that I overlooked Yanmega.)Now Quiver Dance would go well with Tinted Lens--obviously, one pokemon already has the Tinted Lens/Quiver Dance combo (Venemoth), and uses it well. Quiver Dance makes a little less sense with Speed Boost as well--well, kinda... there is some reason you might want to pair the two up.
    Specs Speed Boost won't work. Without Tinted Lens it can be easily forced out as its locked into one move that has resists. Life Orb Speed Boost is a good set though (or it was), and is meant to sweep unlike Specs Lens. The two sets are entirely different in their role.

    I disagree that QD + Speed Boost makes a "little less sense". While Tinted Lens is definately the go-to option with Quiver Dance, Speed Boost allows it to gain far more speed in just the one turn. That means it can run a Modest nature to pack more power initially. It also means if you run Timid you're less likely to be revenged by a Scarfer (I think). I guess both would have their merits with it.

    Anyway, with Quiver Dance, Yanmega would boast a Ground immunity, something neither Volcarona or Venemoth have. Its lowest stat--indeed, its only low stat concerning its function--is its special defense, so Yanmega would pack considerable bulk.

    Quiver Dance Yanmega could probably make use of Roost, and Hypnosis, making a lonely offensive move (and Tinted Lens) a very good choice.
    Completely forget it had a Ground-immunity over the other two xP

    Roost would be nice on a bulky set considering Yanmega doesn't have awful Def and its Sp.Def would be boosted by QD... it also takes away that 4x Rock weakness into a 2x and the Ice/Electric one into neutral, considering you will be Roosting faster than your opponent attacks with your boosts. And Hypnosis would be like a less-accurate Sleep Powder from Venomoth. I like it.

    Yanemga is one of my favourites, I used it on my team extensively last Gen, and while I'm not exactly "into" this Gen as much as other people here, it feels neglected in comparison to last Gen (by Game Freak). I suppose the other Quiver Dancers don't help it, either.
    Quiver Dance would help remedy that, IMO.
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    If Flygon could learn Quiver Dance, it wouldn't need Tinted Lens. Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower/Earth Power gives it all the coverage it would ever need. That being said, I think that QD Flygon would have a really interesting niche in UU as a special sweeper immune to Thunder Wave. The ability to set up somewhat freely on Chansey is a huge plus, IMO.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    I'm beating a dying horse here, but eh. (Not really, but kinda.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzle View Post
    I was talking to HH. He said Flygon was a bad user of Tinted Lens for a number of reasons, one being it had no boosting moves. So I was saying that my original post in this thread was Tinted Lens + two boosting moves - which nobody took into account when discussing Tinted Lens Flygon before which is the reason it wasn't being discussed now.
    You can read my clarification (late edit) in my earlier post. The less change there is in theory, the more accurate theory can be, and the more easily compared to things as they stand currently.
    SpecsLens Yanmega isn't a sweeper. It's a wallbreaker and is meant to severly dent anything that tries to switch in and/or take a hit. It won't sweep because 95 base speed with no boosts is just not made to sweep and will be revenged easily.
    Meh, I guess Spec/Lens Yanmega can do that, with U-turn, Bug Buzz, and Air Slash as an effective core. Yanmega is simply an offensive pokemon, and maybe I should have left it at that. (Hypnosis and Protect are good moves for it though, and it can shut down a team and get stall damage as well.)
    Specs Speed Boost won't work. Without Tinted Lens it can be easily forced out as its locked into one move that has resists. Life Orb Speed Boost is a good set though (or it was), and is meant to sweep unlike Specs Lens. The two sets are entirely different in their role.
    Specs/Speed Boost can be great for lategame, if your opponent's team is fully scouted and known, and one move can get you done the rest of the way. Bug Buzz can dent, Air Slash's flinch rate can win games. A perk of having Specs over Life Orb is that you don't lose HP--Yanmega can get defense and HP EVs and be modestly bulky on that side. Yanmega could use those EVs over speed EVs, as speed will increase anyway.
    I disagree that QD + Speed Boost makes a "little less sense". While Tinted Lens is definately the go-to option with Quiver Dance, Speed Boost allows it to gain far more speed in just the one turn. That means it can run a Modest nature to pack more power initially. It also means if you run Timid you're less likely to be revenged by a Scarfer (I think). I guess both would have their merits with it.
    As "...Tinted Lens is [definitely] the go-to option with Quiver Dance, ..." well that explains my wording.
    Completely forget it had a Ground-immunity over the other two xP
    Roost would be nice on a bulky set considering Yanmega doesn't have awful Def and its Sp.Def would be boosted by QD... it also takes away that 4x Rock weakness into a 2x and the Ice/Electric one into neutral, considering you will be Roosting faster than your opponent attacks with your boosts. And Hypnosis would be like a less-accurate Sleep Powder from Venomoth. I like it.
    Yup. I didn't even consider Roost's type-removing condition/effect.
    Yanemga is one of my favourites, I used it on my team extensively last Gen, and while I'm not exactly "into" this Gen as much as other people here, it feels neglected in comparison to last Gen (by Game Freak). I suppose the other Quiver Dancers don't help it, either.
    Quiver Dance would help remedy that, IMO.
    Yanmega only gained Struggle Bug, as far as I'm aware. But, while comparatively other bugs may have gained against it, two things should be kept in mind: 1) Yanmega is better than most bugs, and 2) Yanmega plays differently than most bugs. (Most comparable is Galvantula or Volcarona, I'd say... it's ultimately tough to say.) The arrival and useage of Quiver Dance pokemon doesn't really hurt Yanmega. Utimately, there isn't a "Bug" grouping in competitive play, like there is for Dragons, Water types (bulky Waters), and, possibly, Steels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathcliff Huxtable View Post
    If Flygon could learn Quiver Dance, it wouldn't need Tinted Lens. Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower/Earth Power gives it all the coverage it would ever need. That being said, I think that QD Flygon would have a really interesting niche in UU as a special sweeper immune to Thunder Wave. The ability to set up somewhat freely on Chansey is a huge plus, IMO.
    That's why it's best to theorize on one change at a time when contemplating what the effects of various changes could be.

    That coverage would be amazing. In UU, I don't think Flamethrower would be necessary though, as Skarmory and Bronzong wouldn't be seen. Flygon could do amazing things with the fourth move on the defensive side, be that move Roost, Substitute, or whatever else you could think of.
    Last edited by League; 21st September 2011 at 01:33 PM.
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    And I take hoedowns seriously.

  7. #142
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    What if Hydreigon had Nasty Plot?

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by juiceboxxx View Post
    What if Hydreigon had Nasty Plot?
    I think that it would make Hydreigon a very viable special sweeper in OU. Hydreigon certainly has the appropriate stats and movepool to make use of such a move.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    ^ It would require paralysis support, though. Face it, base 98 Speed gets it outpaced by most of the offensive players in OU.
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Actually, due to the nature of the metagame, most teams only carry a few fast things. I imagine you'd be better off just killing that stuff before you try to sweep with Hydreigon.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    True. I'd imagine a set like this:

    Modest / Life Orb / Levitate
    - Nasty Plot
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - Focus Blast / Surf / Dark Pulse
    64 HP / 252 Sp. Attack / 192 Speed
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    What if Toxic had been given to a lot less Pokemon, namingly Grass and Poison types and a very select few exceptions? Would bulky Grass types be more viable, would stallwhores that rely on Toxic drop in useage, would it matter?

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharKing View Post
    True. I'd imagine a set like this:

    Modest / Life Orb / Levitate
    - Nasty Plot
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - Focus Blast / Surf / Dark Pulse
    64 HP / 252 Sp. Attack / 192 Speed
    This looks about right to me. If I were posting this in Smogon's C&C, I'd probably get rid of Dark Pulse and slash in Lum Berry with Life Orb so that it could set up on Jirachi, Blissey, and Chansey.

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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    Well, although I put it last for reasons such as FB and Surf being superior coverage-wise, Dark Pulse has its merits, such as hurting Jellicent and Reuniclus. And yeah, Lum Berry as an alternative sounds like a good idea.
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    Default Re: Theorymonning: What if this Pokemon had...?

    @SharKing
    You can put in taunt on that np hydra. It can then set up on blissey's face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

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