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  1. #661
    Neighborhood fatman Wiilio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    Jeebus friggin crap. I'm seeing some problemssss.

    Let's list the problems you noted:
    1. Hard to set up
    2. Rapid Spinner must be eliminated
    3. Protect team from status
    3. ...if I understand it correctly this is the same as number 3. Keeping entry hazard set-ups healthy. So we'll call this 3 too.
    4. Lack of good Gravity users

    Addressing the second topic of Rapid Spinners coming out, and the last topic of Pokemon that can use it well. First of all, yes, they won't bring out a Rapid Spinner until you set up a hazard. That's common sense. What stops Rapid Spin? Ghost-types. What's one of the, in your words, best users of Gravity? Dusknoir. What type is Dusknoir? Ghost. What are the Rapid Spinners in standard play? Forretress, Starmie, Donphan, and Tentacruel. Does Dusknoir learn moves that can harm these? Yes. What are they? Fire Punch for Forretress, Thunderpunch for Tentacruel and Starmie, and Ice Punch for Donphan. Is having all of these on one set viable? No. However, what can these Pokemon really do to Dusknoir? Not much. Basically you could run this moveset for Dusknoir:

    ~ Gravity
    ~ Thunderpunch (hits 2 SE and one neutral), Fire Punch (Hits 1 SE and 1 Neutral), Earthquake (hits 1 SE and 3 neutral), or DynamicPunch (Confusion's annoying, 82% accuracy under Gravity)
    ~ Will-o-Wisp (for Donphan and to soften up Forretress)
    ~ Pain Split

    Also, Jirachi's hard to use without support? I think not.

    Sure, the others listed can be used for other purposes, but the beauty of some of them (especially Cresselia since it's so freaking bulky) is that they can be geared for more specific purposes, such as using Gravity. Also, a good Gravity user is typically bulky, and many of the Pokemon you listed (Blissey, Metagross, Claydol, Cresselia, Forretress, Registeel) are pretty freaking defensive in at least one way.

    In my opinion, 2 and 4 are eliminated. That leaves 1 and 3. 3 is VERY easy.

    You have two ways of taking care of status: prevention and healing. Prevention will be taken care of by Safeguard, while healing will be taken care of by Heal Bell/Aromatherapy. The best user of Safeguard I've seen is Latias, and obviously there's Blissey for a cleric. Latias can also use Wish to get things back in and heal them. Blissey can also use Stealth Rock. Roserade can learn Aromatherapy and Toxic Spikes or Spikes. Bring it in on something it can kill, they switch out thinking you'll attack, and bam, either your whole team is healed of status, or they have one layer of Toxic Spikes or Spikes to deal with. If you're Sashed, you can set down a second layer of either Spikes or attack. There are others, I'm sure, but these immediately came to mind.

    That takes care of 3. Now we move on to 1.

    This CAN BE fairly difficult, I must say. The best way to do this is to set up Stealth Rock early. Stealth Rock is the most immediate threat, as it only takes one use to be fully effective. Once that's done, they'll most likely send out their Rapid Spinner, which is when you send out one of two things: A) Your spin BLOCKER, or B) Your spinNER KILLER. Magnezone is, from my experience, the best way to do this. STAB Thunderbolts for Starmie, Tentacruel (probably won't be a OHKO but Tentacruel can't do much back), and Forretress (who can't escape due to Magnet Pull), and HP Grass or Ice for Donphan. Go ahead and set up a Substitute or Magnet Rise (Donphan or Forretress can both carry EQ) and see what they'll do next. Now you KNOW what their Rapid Spinner is, and know how to deal with it promptly. If they're dumb enough to keep in their spinner, go ahead and kill it. Your entry hazard set-ups should be bulky. Tentacruel is my common Toxic Spiker, although Forretress can handle it well too. Roserade can handle the job, as well, although not quite as bulky. There are many good Stealth Rock users out there... Hippowdon being the most physically bulky Pokemon in standard play, Skarmory being up there with it, Forretress (again), Donphan, Swampert... Then there's Spikes... Forretress(AGAIN), Skarmory (again), Roserade (again)... The good thing about Forretress, Tentacruel, and Donphan is that they can also double as Rapid Spinners, which brings up another important topic: for this to work, your Pokemon are going to have to start filling multiple roles. Your Latias might have to be a special wall, cover status, and Wish pass. Your Roserade might have to be a cleric and cover Toxic Spikes set-up. Things like that.

    This sort of thing WILL take strategy, but the rewards are tremendous.

    The kind of team for this strategy would definitely be a stall team. Stock up the team with bulky users that can hit fairly hard. Hippowdon would also provide Sand Stream to help deal more damage.



    I know you hate entry hazards, Edo-kun, but you can't call a strategy implausible just because you don't like it. It HAS been done. Maybe it's difficult, but with practice, it can be managed.

  2. #662
    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    Jeez, Wiil, calm down. I wasn't saying that it was impossible or implausible, just that certain specific threats would have to be addressed -- which you've just outlined, and better than I did.

    And on the point about Jirachi, that was just from my own personal experience.
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  3. #663
    Neighborhood fatman Wiilio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    I felt that was a completely calm and (not to toot my own horn) well laid out response.

    I've never seen an instance when Jirachi can't be used without setup. Never. Jirachi's got 100s in all stats and very good resistances. Plus it has a very good movepool to work with.

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    Registered User metalKS's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    I don't know if this should be asked here or not, so if it should be asked somewhere else, please tell me.
    I'm trying to breed a Baton Tossing Jolly Ninjask with Sword Dance, the strategy is to Protect the first round, Speed Boost → Sword Dance, get's hit, holds on with Focus Band if 1HKO'ed → Protect, Speed Boost → Baton Toss to Sweeper.
    I know it is common and has can be screwed up easily, but I still want to try it nevertheless. So my question is, should I care about the other IVs other than Speed, since it's just a suicide lead and I just want the stat raises. I'm leaning towards just getting the Speed IV 31, and don't care about the others, should I do this?

  5. #665
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    Quote Originally Posted by metalleg View Post
    I don't know if this should be asked here or not, so if it should be asked somewhere else, please tell me.
    I'm trying to breed a Baton Tossing Jolly Ninjask with Sword Dance, the strategy is to Protect the first round, Speed Boost → Sword Dance, get's hit, holds on with Focus Band if 1HKO'ed → Protect, Speed Boost → Baton Toss to Sweeper.
    I know it is common and has can be screwed up easily, but I still want to try it nevertheless. So my question is, should I care about the other IVs other than Speed, since it's just a suicide lead and I just want the stat raises. I'm leaning towards just getting the Speed IV 31, and don't care about the others, should I do this?
    You need HP and DEF so it can take hits better, speed isn't the only thing to worry about.
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  6. #666
    Registered User metalKS's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    Quote Originally Posted by ιиsσмиιαc View Post
    You need HP and DEF so it can take hits better, speed isn't the only thing to worry about.
    Thanks for the suggestion, but I can only imagine 2 scenarios
    1. It get's 1HKO'd, hold on with Focus Sash, continue the strategy as usual.
    2. It doesn't get 1HKO'ed, yippidie do, continue the strategy as usual.

    With my naive notions, I don't see why I should invest my time in getting IV 31s in HP and Defence. Not that I'm saying I'm right, I just want to get more pairs of eyes in this strategy and identify the flaws. If possible, can somebody think of a scenario when the HP/Defence/SD matter in this strategy?

  7. #667
    Neighborhood fatman Wiilio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    I'd try for 31 in HP, Attack, and Speed at the least. You'll be investing EVs in all of these stats. Ninjask can't take hits.

  8. #668
    Wailord Punk Cheesus Is Lord's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    For Ninjask, you can go with an Adamant nature and 29 speed IV and still outspeed Timid Electrode with no boost. This guarantees that after a protect you will beat any scarfers as well.

    HP and defenses are not actually that important if you aren't bothering with subs and just using a Protect/Sash strategy. Just make sure you use a Sash and not a Band, which only has a 10% chance of working.

    Edit: You might consider EVing for an odd HP. It will allow you to come in twice more under stealth rock in the event that you don't take damage in setup. Highly unlikely scenario, but only costs one stat point.
    If 50 Cent had been STAB'd instead of shot, he would be 75 Cent.

  9. #669
    Registered User metalKS's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiil View Post
    I'd try for 31 in HP, Attack, and Speed at the least. You'll be investing EVs in all of these stats. Ninjask can't take hits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesus Is Lord View Post
    For Ninjask, you can go with an Adamant nature and 29 speed IV and still outspeed Timid Electrode with no boost. This guarantees that after a protect you will beat any scarfers as well.

    HP and defenses are not actually that important if you aren't bothering with subs and just using a Protect/Sash strategy. Just make sure you use a Sash and not a Band, which only has a 10% chance of working.

    Edit: You might consider EVing for an odd HP. It will allow you to come in twice more under stealth rock in the event that you don't take damage in setup. Highly unlikely scenario, but only costs one stat point.

    Thanks for the great advices guys
    I checked up the stats and noticed that(should've done my homework earlier) a +Speed natured, IV31, 252 EVed Electrode has a Speed of 211, however, an Adamant natured, IV31, 252 EVed Ninjask has a Speed of 212, so as Cheesus Is Lord said, an Adamant nature would be better(and after the stat rise it's unsurpassable), thanks a lot for telling me this, or else I would've gone with Jolly....which seems unworthy compared to Adamant since they both outspeed all of the Pokemon(not including Deoxys) easily..

    However, if I go with an additional Substitute, it would be wise to abandon the Focus Sash, and be better of with and item like Leichi Berry? Correct? Or if someone can suggest other items, fire away~

  10. #670
    Neighborhood fatman Wiilio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    Any pinch berry would do. Ninjask can't use Petaya, but whatever it passes to might be able to.

  11. #671
    Registered User imair's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    I don't know if this is the right place to post this since it isn't really about competitive battling but I couldn't really think of anywhere else...

    I have an absol with mean look and false swipe I'm planning on using to catch the legendary beasts and other roaming pokemon, but my question is, what should I teach it for the other two move slots? I've thought about will-o-wisp as a burn will increase the catch rate, or just having it learn aggressive moves. What do people think?

    And if this is the wrong place to ask this, could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks

  12. #672
    Neighborhood fatman Wiilio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    Eh, this technically isn't the right place, but it's a simple question that can be answered with one response, so I won't bother moving it. For future reference, there's a simple questions thread for regular gaming on the main page of the Pokemon Video Games section.

    Thunder Wave would do well, seeing as Absol doesn't get access to a Sleeping move. In my opinion, opt for Night Slash in the last slot just to do general damage. If the Absol is at a high level, you might want to use something weaker, like Faint Attack (60+) or Pursuit (80+) so you don't kill the beasts.

  13. #673
    Wailord Punk Cheesus Is Lord's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    Quote Originally Posted by metalleg View Post
    Thanks for the great advices guys
    I checked up the stats and noticed that(should've done my homework earlier) a +Speed natured, IV31, 252 EVed Electrode has a Speed of 211, however, an Adamant natured, IV31, 252 EVed Ninjask has a Speed of 212, so as Cheesus Is Lord said, an Adamant nature would be better(and after the stat rise it's unsurpassable), thanks a lot for telling me this, or else I would've gone with Jolly....which seems unworthy compared to Adamant since they both outspeed all of the Pokemon(not including Deoxys) easily..

    However, if I go with an additional Substitute, it would be wise to abandon the Focus Sash, and be better of with and item like Leichi Berry? Correct? Or if someone can suggest other items, fire away~
    I see. You're doing this at level 50. In that case, you need a 31 IV if you want to beat Electrode. However, you can go as low as 9(!) and still beat base 130s without a speed boost.

    If you go with substitute, it makes it easier to come in again. For an item, the only alternative to a pinch berry is Leftovers, which will give you one more sub after all of your others are gone in you give yourself one more than a multiple of four in HP. However, then you will want the higher speed, since you can't just protect the first turn against potential scarfers.
    If 50 Cent had been STAB'd instead of shot, he would be 75 Cent.

  14. #674
    Registered User metalKS's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesus Is Lord View Post
    I see. You're doing this at level 50. In that case, you need a 31 IV if you want to beat Electrode. However, you can go as low as 9(!) and still beat base 130s without a speed boost.

    If you go with substitute, it makes it easier to come in again. For an item, the only alternative to a pinch berry is Leftovers, which will give you one more sub after all of your others are gone in you give yourself one more than a multiple of four in HP. However, then you will want the higher speed, since you can't just protect the first turn against potential scarfers.
    Yeah, I prefer to train them to level 50 than to 100
    Well, thanks a lot for the advice, it was really useful^^

  15. #675
    Neighborhood fatman Wiilio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I swear I didn't know we had a *Simple Questions thread* for RMT! (Read First Pos

    You may be training to level 50, but will you BATTLE at level 50? I train my Pokemon to level 50, but I do auto-level 100 battles on Wi-Fi.

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