Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)
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Thread: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

  1. #1

    Default Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    Alright, this is my first competitive team, and I'm pretty new to the Metagame and stuff, so please bear with my inexperience. Anyways, this is my current Sandstorm team. Please read the whole post before posting comments. Thanks in advance!

    Sand setup and Physical Tank
    Tyranitar@ Muscle Band
    Sand Stream
    Adamant
    86/252/0/0/86/86
    -Crunch
    -Earthquake
    -Rock Slide
    -Ice Punch

    Tyranitar is, first and foremost, my Sandstorm setup. While this team doesn’t exactly thrive off of Sand, it certainly helps to have the sandstorm buffets for an emergency fallback, although most pokemon with sturdy (actually, all, I think) are immune to sand damage, which is problematic. T-Tar’s biggest threats are primarily special fighting and water moves, such as Scald and Focus Blast. However, Under Mandibuzz’s tailwind boost, he outspeeds most threats and can land either a STAB Rock Slide/Crunch, or a heavy-hitting Earthquake. Given Gen V’s changes to sand, T-tar also gains a welcome SpDef boost with sandstorm in effect.

    Dual Wall and Tailwind setup
    Mandibuzz@ Leftovers
    Overcoat
    Adamant
    4/0/252/0/252/0
    -Roost
    -Tailwind
    -U-Turn
    -Brave Bird

    Mandibuzz has the benefit of defensive stats, combined with a decent health stat, and Roost, allowing her to switch in and take hits while she sets up tailwind, and still be able to come back to set up Tailwind another one or two times. Lefties allow it somewhat meager but welcome recovery to keep it in good shape in between roosts. Under Tailwind, the entire team flourishes, so it’s easy to say that Mandibuzz is the real star here. Brave Bird provides a solid STAB move that, along with the Adamant Nature, allows Mandibuzz to deal significant damage, leaving me with a valid last-ditch option. Like any wall, however, Mandibuzz loses most of her potency under burn or Toxic, the former being more painful as it also removes her already barely-tolerable attacking ability, and allows enemies to stall out while burn slowly kills it.

    Wall/Entry Hazards/Rapid Spinner
    Forretress@ Leftovers
    Sturdy
    Sassy
    252/0/4/0/252/0
    -Stealth Rock
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Rapid Spin
    -Volt Switch

    I've chosen a Specially Defensive Forretress in an attempt to cover it's inherent SpDef blind spot. With Rapid Spin, Forretress helps clear the field for Mandibuzz so it can renew Tailwind, then Volt Switch out to deal some damage on the exit. By setting up Stealth Rock and at least one layer of Toxic spikes, I can hopefully clear the way for another teammate to pick up the fight. Unfortunately, even with a SpDef max and a beneficial nature, it still suffers heavily from special fire and ground moves, although sturdy helps to counter OHKO's.

    Special Sweeper/Anti-Sun
    Heatran@ Air Balloon
    Flash Fire
    Modest
    0/0/0/252/4/252
    -Flamethrower
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Earth Power
    -Hidden Power (Ice)

    Heatran holds significance as the anti-sun attacker of this team. Under sun or Sand, Heatran is able to land some powerful hits, as it is immune to fire moves, which are boosted by sun, and 4x resistant to Solarbeam. However, it suffers from a 4x ground weakness, but, initially, this is countered by the Air Balloon, allowing me to roast the opposition with a powerful flamethrower with a tailwind boost as they struggle to burst my balloon.

    Choice Specs/Anti-rain
    Gastrodon@ Wise Glasses
    Storm Drain
    Modest
    240/0/0/252/16/0
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Earth Power
    -Recover

    Gastrodon is my answer to Rain Dance or Drizzle Toads, as these most likely lead to 100% accuracy Thunders, or Super-STAB (sorry, personal term, i mean Rain+STAB) surfs/scalds/Hydro Pumps. Both of these attack options Gastrodon takes without a care in the world, and is able to respond with a powered-up attack the following turn. Unfortunately, Gastrodon also suffers from vulnerability to status, and requires that the team's Ferrothorn be disposed of, or that it receives a Storm Drain boost first, in order to properly steal the spotlight.

    Priority Killer+anti-Fighting
    Metagross@ Occa Berry
    Clear Body
    Adamant
    252/252/0/0/0/4
    -Meteor Mash
    -Bullet Punch
    -Zen Headbutt
    -Hammer Arm

    Metagross packs power and defenses on the level of Tyranitar, and carries Zen Headbutt, which proves invaluable in ridding me of fighting types. Bullet Punch enables me to zip past pesky speedy sweepers and hammer them, even with it's low base power, and Meteor Mash provides a more powerful alternative. Zen Headbutt and Hammer Arm allow me to smash through pokemon that wall Gastrodon, and Heatran, such as bulky pure waters and steel types. Unfortunately, Metagross does still suffer from a weakness to fire-types, which will carve through this giant like a hot knife through butter (hah! punny!). Luckily, this is remedied, if temporarily, by it's occa berry, which allows it to survive a fire hit with a significant portion of health left.

    Overall, this team relies fairly heavily on Tailwind to allow it to outspeed most threats. So, if someone puts a kibosh on Mandibuzz, I’m pretty heavily hampered. Luckily, due to support from Forretress and good defensive stats, this isn't an easy task. Another thing that will take wind out of my sails is any other weather condition. Anything other than Sandstorm is tres mauvais for this team, since Sunny Day amps up flamethrower, fire punch and the like, as well as turning Solarbeam into a one-turn killer. Rain is also a bane to this team, since just about any STAB+rain water move OHKO’s or easily 2HKO's most of my team. Although I do have counters to these conditions in Heatran and Gastrodon, Gastrodon is only so fast to begin with, and Tailwind only lasts so long before i have to renew it. Thankfully, Drizzle+Swift Swim is banned on the same team, so that’s not an issue the moment I see a Drizzletoad.
    Last edited by Data-Roxas; 30th November 2011 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Wording Change, Moveset changes

  2. #2

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    First off, Excadrill is banned to Uber ( see tiers Tiers (B/W) - Smogon University) . Second, Ice Punch is a stronger alternative to Ice Fang (even though T-Tar would rather have Fire Punch anyway). Also, an Icicle Plate is a waste of an item, considering you could just give him a Muscle Band for a similar result that boosts all of Tyranitar's physical moves (even though that isn't that great of an item anyway).

    Third, a Gentle nature is always a bad thing, especially on a Magnezone, who would rather have Modest or Timid. EVs are important, too. Durant is not a counter to fighters, Bug resists Fighting, but Steel is weak to it.

    Take it from me. I'm the top battler on the wi-fi ladder here.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hadesiro View Post
    First off, Excadrill is banned to Uber ( see tiers Tiers (B/W) - Smogon University) . Second, Ice Punch is a stronger alternative to Ice Fang (even though T-Tar would rather have Fire Punch anyway). Also, an Icicle Plate is a waste of an item, considering you could just give him a Muscle Band for a similar result that boosts all of Tyranitar's physical moves (even though that isn't that great of an item anyway).

    Third, a Gentle nature is always a bad thing, especially on a Magnezone, who would rather have Modest or Timid. EVs are important, too. Durant is not a counter to fighters, Bug resists Fighting, but Steel is weak to it.

    Take it from me. I'm the top battler on the wi-fi ladder here.
    Okay, thanks for your advice :) In response:

    1. Whoops! i was unaware of that. last i checked, Excadrill could still be played in OU. I checked Smogon for ideas about it's set, and i remembered seeing that. I'll take your word for it, though, since you're the top wi-fi battler. What should I replace it with, then? I have a Metagross with Zen Headbutt, EQ, Bullet Punch and Meteor Mash that comes to mind, especially because of Zen Headbutt, which will help against fighting types.

    2. Duly noted, and I intend to get a Tyranitar with Ice Punch,primarily to cover ground and dragon types. In consideration of my weakness to fighting, do you think it would be worth teaching it Aerial Ace instead? As for the Icicle plate vs. Muscle Band, I was trying to compensate for Ice Fang's low power, but if i'm going to replace it anyways, the muscle band is obviously the better choice.

    3. I concur that Gentle is probably not the best of Nature choices, although it does give me a handy SpDef. boost (at the cost of my Steel-type PhysDef.,though, so that's pas bueno). Would you recommend Modest, or Timid, then? Speed isn't so much of a concern with Tailwind in play, but it always helps to be able to do something with my speed outside of the Tailwind boost. As for the Durant comment, i heartily apologize for my lapse of thought. I remembered that Durant was bug, and knew that resisted fighting, but forgot steel's weakness to it.

    As for EV's, I'll look into EV training a little bit so i understand it a little bit more, and re-EV train the whole team. Do you have any suggestions for EV layouts?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    @MaelstromBen I, self-designated EV wizard, can help with EVs and sets once the info in your second post is merged into the first. You might also want to do some format changes to first post (as no one wants to read both the first and second posts of yours and compare what's being changed), to something rather like this:

    Pokemon Species Name
    Item (this can go with the above instead, in a format like this: Gengar @ Choice Scarf)
    Nature / IVs (only if there are any nonstandard deviations with the IVs you're using)
    EVs
    Move 1, Move 2, Move 3, Move 4. (Period.) Moveset Info--"This Gengar..."

    I'd remove the pokemon nicknames, as such is just adding clog, and I don't know if you want competitive battlers offering suggestions on the names.

    Competitive battlers are pretty scrupulous when it comes to EVs, IVs, and natures... while I would search for good pokemon in playthroughs when I had the games, I just used simulators for competitive battling. Simulators are a good way to get practice in and to test pokemon out, but they can also be the sole tool used for competitive battling.

    If these pokemon are what you have submitted because you have already obtained them, then others who are more attentive to details will have some various advantages most likely.

    Giving us the stats of a pokemon won't tell us its EV's or IV's, necessarily, anyhow.
    Feel free(r) to discuss Battle Strategy with me--I'll discuss anything really.

    Besides being a strange (retired) battler with a storied, legendary, mythical, exaggerated, and relatively unknown career, I am also an amateur English B&W anime reviewer. (pachiba, you like?)

    And I take hoedowns seriously.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    I don't think that this team in its current state is worthy of its own thread. Take some time to do a little more research about competitive Pokemon and then either edit this team or create a new thread. Keep in mind that teams posted in this forum should follow the format described in this thread as closely as possible. This thread will be closed and will remain so unless the original post is edited appropriately to conform to standards.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    UPDATE: i've hopefully adhered better to the formatting rules, and several of the suggested changes have been made, namely swapping Excadrill for Metagross, and teaching T-Tar Ice Punch. In addition, i also changed Durant's dig to Rock Slide.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    If you're going to rely on Mandibuzz so much, the I suggest getting a Rapid Spinner to remove Stealth Rock, which will hurt Mandibuzz by 1/4 of its max HP whenever it switches in. Take your pick here Rapid Spin (B/W) - Smogon University .

    I also advise getting a pokemon with Stealth Rock. Forretress has both Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. I would get rid of Krookodile. It looks cool on paper, but an Azumarill could take it out easily. Other good teammates would be Skarmory, Gliscor, Heatran, Terrakion, etc. There is a lot of pokemon that would benefit from Tailwind and Sandstream, but to help you find the right combination: Pokemon.Marriland.com - Black / White Team Builder .

    I hope there isn't any problem with me posting a link to marriland. Please don't infract me, as I was just trying to help someone.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    as for the team builder, i've actually used the D/P/Pt one before, so i'm familiar with the process, and thanks for the link.

    I hear your complaints about Krookodile, and yeah, defensively, his typing and defenses suck. I'm hesitant to remove him because I really like Moxie, but I do like the Forretress idea. Losing Excadrill to Ubers took out my Rapid Spinner, so having something with Forretress' bulk and set-up based movepool would be great. My only concern is that 2/3 of my team now has vulnerability to fire, with Durant and Forretress suffering the most from that. I'll get to work on preparing a Forretress, and consider your other suggestions, too. Is Gliscor + Poison Heal outlawed completely to Ubers? I'm pretty sure it is, but there's room for doubt.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    It is not outlawed to Ubers. Use it if you want, and get rid of Durant. Durant is decent in UU, but not in OU. As for your Fire weakness, Heatran actually gets stronger when hit with a Fire move, and takes no damage all due to Flash Fire. Gastrodon is another great poke that will make Drizzle teams suffer once their Ferrothorn is fainted.

    Another thing-Magnezone needs Hidden Power Fire 70 to function as your team would want it to, otherwise pokemon such as Ferrothorn could Leech Seed you to death. You might be able to find a Magnemite someone has RNG'd to get it in one of the shops in the trade center, but it won't be cheap, I think.

    Heatran can also have Dragon Pulse if you get one from generation 4, and it resists Dragon moves, so it might be your new anti-Dragon.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    I'd suggest taking a look at Smogon's analyses for the Pokemon in your team. Your movesets and EV spreads seem rather odd to me. Newer players such as yourself should try not to deviate greatly from standard until after they learn a little bit more about the metagame.

    I'd also suggest trying to build a solid core for this team. Example of cores can be found in this article of the Smog.

    Finally, you should listen to Hadesiro's suggestions. I agree with them for the most part.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    I think i'll just scrap Magnezone for now, and replace it with Heatran. Then, I'm thinking replace Durant with a palatably SpDefensive Forretress, and Krookodile with Gastrodon. Also, I'm probably going to retrain Tyranitar so it'll have Thunderpunch, to make up for the loss of Magnezone. Is that a good idea? What would you recommend for movesets? I used the team builder on Marriland, and i think that Type-wise, it's a pretty decent team, since, after Tailwind setup, I can switch in virtually any team member to anticipate and resist an attack on Mandibuzz, from which point, it would seem i could pretty reliably sweep, switching out to Forretress when I want to remove entry hazards for Mandibuzz to renew Tailwind. If this all sounds good to you guys, I think I'll modify the first post with about the sets i'm thinking.

    @Heathcliffe Huxtable, thanks for the article, it was very informative and good food for thought. I understand your point of view regarding trying to avoid deviating from the norm at my early stage in the meta, and I totally agree. What do you think I can improve about my EV layouts?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    Walls should always invest in HP. The rec spread for Mandibuzz is here: Mandibuzz (B/W) - Smogon University .

  13. #13

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    Okay, I'll fix that, then. Thanks! Any other suggestions?

    UPDATE: I've made some major changes, such as adding Gastrodon, Heatran, and Forretress, in lieu of Krookodile, Magnezone, and Durant. I've also made some minor changes, such as adding some Health EV's to Mandibuzz. I still need help deciding a couple of things, though, such as deciding Heatran's 4th move, and Gastrodon's and Forretress' Item, due my personal lack of surety as to whether or not i'm allowed to have multiple leftovers on the same team. I do have multiple leftovers to use, I'm just not sure of any standard item rulings.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    There is no item clause in competitive battling. Feel free to give Leftovers to as many Pokemon as you want.

    Gastrodon and Heatran make this team much better, IMO. I do, however, think that you should use Skarmory in place of Forretress to better handle the physical attackers of the current metagame. Skarmory/Heatran/Gastrodon is a somewhat outdated core, but it is decent enough for a beginner's team. Also, I'd suggest giving Heatran Stealth Rock because it can do so fairly reliably and it does not need Substitute for any significant purpose.

    Here's the sets for your reference:

    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Roost
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird

    Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stealth Rock

    For the rest of your Pokemon, just use the sets posted on Smogon as a guide for EV spreads.

    Edit: If you find that Magnezone is a problem, run Shed Shell instead of Leftovers on Skarmory.
    Last edited by g3rgni; 16th November 2011 at 09:59 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Sandstorm Team (1st Competitive team)

    That Scarmory set does look promising, and stealth rock does fill Heatran's fourth slot. However, I think I like hidden power more for it's offensive coverage, and I need Forretress for Rapid Spin to protect Mandibuzz.

    EDIT: Heatran's Hidden Power should be Ice w/ it's current EV spread, right?

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