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  1. #1
    Registered User chaos_Leader's Avatar
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    Default Rate This Team!

    I figure its time I came out and post my current team, and see what your thoughts are on it.

    I've spent some time over the recent months experimenting with teambuilding and battling on Showdown. Some mons have come and gone in that time, some moves were changed and swapped out, and the end result was this team, which is now pretty much fully realized in my copy of Pokémon Y, lame nicknames included.

    Battle Format: VGC 2014 Doubles


    Sableye@Sitrus Berry, AKA: "Stinkeye"
    Prankster
    Impish
    252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def

    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Will-O-Wisp
    Foul Play

    This is the team's main disruptive support. It's by far one I will most often lead with, particularly if I can't for sure predict the opponent's leading pair based on what I see in the preview. It makes a good scout in that respect, and Foul Play is a great way to bring some offense to the table.

    Delphox@Charcoal, AKA: "Wizbang" (open to alternative items)
    Blaze (considering changing to Magician)
    Modest
    252 SPA/252 Spe/4 HP

    Heat Wave
    Solar Beam
    Psyshock/Psychic
    Protect

    This is the team's fire sweeper. Normally I like to work it in conjunction with the Sableye to get off a Sunny Day, as well as apply a burn to potential physical threats to the Delphox. I'm still somewhat on the fence whether to keep Psyshock or switch it out for Psychic, since I've had reasonably comparable success using both. The main draw of Psyshock over Psychic is if the opponent sees a Special Sweeper on the field, and sends in a Special Wall to bear the brunt of its attacks, like a Goodra for example. Since Psyshock goes against the target's Physical Defense instead, it's a way to mitigate such a tactic, but at the price of slightly weaker raw attack power.

    It currently has Blaze in my copy of Y, but I have run Delphox with Magician on Showdown, and had a lot of fun pulling items out of opponents' mons' hands. I might change it if I can get a replacement with its hidden ability.


    Lucario@Lucarionite
    Inner Focus (Adaptability)
    Timid
    252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP

    Aura Sphere
    Flash Cannon
    Shadow Ball
    Protect

    Fairly straightforward special sweeping Mega Lucario. I decided to go with a special sweeper as opposed to physical mainly because of how prevalent physical attack is in the metagame currently, and the measures many players take to cut down an opponent's physical attack power and/or bolster their physical defenses.


    Gourgeist-Small@Leftovers
    Frisk
    Jolly
    252 HP/68 SpD/188 Spe

    Trick-or-Treat
    Will-O-Wisp
    Leech Seed
    Phantom Force

    This is the team's Trick-or-Treat setter/Seeder/Secondary Burner. True, it's not the super-sized grass wall, but there's a specific reason for that. It has the small size, the jolly nature, and 188EVs in speed for one important purpose: in order to barely outrun the Lucario listed above. Since speed changes for Mega evolutions don't apply until the turn after, my Lucario can Mega evolve, receive the Ghost typing from Gourgeist, and fire an adaptability STAB Shadow Ball at its target in one fell swoop. This particular tactic is used primarily against bulky psychic types, especially things like Prankster support Meowstics or trick room setters, as well as any vulnerable ghost type target that is still outpaced by a normal Lucario's speed. The extra speed is also nice to outrun many fighting type responses often sent out vs. Lucario, granting the fighting type immunity before the opponent can land their blow.


    Weavile@Life Orb, AKA: "Bandit"
    Pressure
    Jolly
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP

    Ice Shard
    Night Slash
    Fake Out
    Protect

    Dragon Hunter. With how prevalent Dragon types are in the metagame, especially such mons as Salamence and Garchomp, Ice Shard Weavile is a natural choice to combat that with. The Trick-or-Treat Gourgest above opens up another option though by painting a target with the ghost typing (a target which otherwise has no typing weakness I can readily exploit) and letting Weavile's Night Slash take care of it afterward.


    Jolteon@Magnet, AKA: "Blitz"
    Volt Absorb
    Timid
    252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP

    Thunderbolt
    Shadow Ball
    Thunder Wave
    Volt Switch (considering changing, maybe a status infliction)

    Bird Zapper. Outruns Mega Charizard Y, resists Talonflame's Brave Bird, OHKO's both of them. It's primarily there to fill a niche, albeit a common niche; to neutralize the threats of the two highly popular, prevalent, and dangerous flying fire types listed above. Yes, Mega Manectric could probably fill this niche better and with greater coverage options, but I already have a mega evolution on this team. That said, this Jolteon can and has functioned well outside that niche. Jolteon often comes out as an opener alongside Sableye, where it wrecks its niche targets if the opponent opens with them, or provides further disruptive support with Thunder Wave. Shadow ball is there for coverage, sometimes taking advantage of Gourgeist's Trick-or-Treat if the opportunity is available for it.

    I am seriously considering switching Volt Switch for an alternative move though. The times I'd normally use Volt Switch are if Jolteon's niche targets that I saw in team preview didn't open the match and I need to keep him safe and/or to add extra damage while I put in a mon I have in reserve that fits the situation better. And even then, it doesn't do too much besides tack on a chunk of damage during a swap-out. And heck, if there's a lighting-rod partner on the opposing team it's more than likely going to being swapped out anyway, and Volt Switch does no good there. In place of Volt Switch, I might have either Charm or Baby-Doll Eyes to cut down on the opponent's attack; Charm for the -2 to attack, and Baby-Doll Eyes for the +1 Priority.

    Remember, the battle format intended for this team is VGC 2014 Doubles. Please keep that in mind when offering critiques and suggestions. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Is Not A Moderator TerraTF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate This Team!

    Quote Originally Posted by chaos_Leader View Post
    I figure its time I came out and post my current team, and see what your thoughts are on it.

    I've spent some time over the recent months experimenting with teambuilding and battling on Showdown. Some mons have come and gone in that time, some moves were changed and swapped out, and the end result was this team, which is now pretty much fully realized in my copy of Pokémon Y, lame nicknames included.

    Battle Format: VGC 2014 Doubles


    Sableye@Sitrus Berry, AKA: "Stinkeye"
    Prankster
    Impish
    252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def

    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Will-O-Wisp
    Foul Play

    This is the team's main disruptive support. It's by far one I will most often lead with, particularly if I can't for sure predict the opponent's leading pair based on what I see in the preview. It makes a good scout in that respect, and Foul Play is a great way to bring some offense to the table.
    So you want a Prankster that's good I'd assume? Klefki is a biggie. Especially if you want to abuse the shit out of SwagPlay in VGC.

    Quote Originally Posted by chaos_Leader View Post
    Delphox@Charcoal, AKA: "Wizbang" (open to alternative items)
    Blaze (considering changing to Magician)
    Modest
    252 SPA/252 Spe/4 HP

    Heat Wave
    Solar Beam
    Psyshock/Psychic
    Protect

    This is the team's fire sweeper. Normally I like to work it in conjunction with the Sableye to get off a Sunny Day, as well as apply a burn to potential physical threats to the Delphox. I'm still somewhat on the fence whether to keep Psyshock or switch it out for Psychic, since I've had reasonably comparable success using both. The main draw of Psyshock over Psychic is if the opponent sees a Special Sweeper on the field, and sends in a Special Wall to bear the brunt of its attacks, like a Goodra for example. Since Psyshock goes against the target's Physical Defense instead, it's a way to mitigate such a tactic, but at the price of slightly weaker raw attack power.

    It currently has Blaze in my copy of Y, but I have run Delphox with Magician on Showdown, and had a lot of fun pulling items out of opponents' mons' hands. I might change it if I can get a replacement with its hidden ability.
    I'd go @Power Herb for the item. It'll give you a chance to use Solar Beam if you're unsuccessful in getting a Sunny Day up. There also is the alternative of running M-Charizard Y or a Ninetales in one of your later slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by chaos_Leader View Post
    Lucario@Lucarionite
    Inner Focus (Adaptability)
    Timid
    252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP

    Aura Sphere
    Flash Cannon
    Shadow Ball
    Protect

    Fairly straightforward special sweeping Mega Lucario. I decided to go with a special sweeper as opposed to physical mainly because of how prevalent physical attack is in the metagame currently, and the measures many players take to cut down an opponent's physical attack power and/or bolster their physical defenses.
    Go with 4 Attack M-Luke or just drop it. Not a single Pokemon on your team runs EQ or Surf so Protect is useless.


    Quote Originally Posted by chaos_Leader View Post
    Gourgeist-Small@Leftovers
    Frisk
    Jolly
    252 HP/68 SpD/188 Spe

    Trick-or-Treat
    Will-O-Wisp
    Leech Seed
    Phantom Force

    This is the team's Trick-or-Treat setter/Seeder/Secondary Burner. True, it's not the super-sized grass wall, but there's a specific reason for that. It has the small size, the jolly nature, and 188EVs in speed for one important purpose: in order to barely outrun the Lucario listed above. Since speed changes for Mega evolutions don't apply until the turn after, my Lucario can Mega evolve, receive the Ghost typing from Gourgeist, and fire an adaptability STAB Shadow Ball at its target in one fell swoop. This particular tactic is used primarily against bulky psychic types, especially things like Prankster support Meowstics or trick room setters, as well as any vulnerable ghost type target that is still outpaced by a normal Lucario's speed. The extra speed is also nice to outrun many fighting type responses often sent out vs. Lucario, granting the fighting type immunity before the opponent can land their blow.
    You have too many support Pokemon for a Doubles team. This could be replaced with a Ninetales.


    Quote Originally Posted by chaos_Leader View Post
    Weavile@Life Orb, AKA: "Bandit"
    Pressure
    Jolly
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP

    Ice Shard
    Night Slash
    Fake Out
    Protect

    Dragon Hunter. With how prevalent Dragon types are in the metagame, especially such mons as Salamence and Garchomp, Ice Shard Weavile is a natural choice to combat that with. The Trick-or-Treat Gourgest above opens up another option though by painting a target with the ghost typing (a target which otherwise has no typing weakness I can readily exploit) and letting Weavile's Night Slash take care of it afterward.
    Needs Knock Off. Otherwise its alright.

    Quote Originally Posted by chaos_Leader View Post
    Jolteon@Magnet, AKA: "Blitz"
    Volt Absorb
    Timid
    252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP

    Thunderbolt
    Shadow Ball
    Thunder Wave
    Volt Switch (considering changing, maybe a status infliction)

    Bird Zapper. Outruns Mega Charizard Y, resists Talonflame's Brave Bird, OHKO's both of them. It's primarily there to fill a niche, albeit a common niche; to neutralize the threats of the two highly popular, prevalent, and dangerous flying fire types listed above. Yes, Mega Manectric could probably fill this niche better and with greater coverage options, but I already have a mega evolution on this team. That said, this Jolteon can and has functioned well outside that niche. Jolteon often comes out as an opener alongside Sableye, where it wrecks its niche targets if the opponent opens with them, or provides further disruptive support with Thunder Wave. Shadow ball is there for coverage, sometimes taking advantage of Gourgeist's Trick-or-Treat if the opportunity is available for it.

    I am seriously considering switching Volt Switch for an alternative move though. The times I'd normally use Volt Switch are if Jolteon's niche targets that I saw in team preview didn't open the match and I need to keep him safe and/or to add extra damage while I put in a mon I have in reserve that fits the situation better. And even then, it doesn't do too much besides tack on a chunk of damage during a swap-out. And heck, if there's a lighting-rod partner on the opposing team it's more than likely going to being swapped out anyway, and Volt Switch does no good there. In place of Volt Switch, I might have either Charm or Baby-Doll Eyes to cut down on the opponent's attack; Charm for the -2 to attack, and Baby-Doll Eyes for the +1 Priority.

    Remember, the battle format intended for this team is VGC 2014 Doubles. Please keep that in mind when offering critiques and suggestions. Thanks!
    I'd just drop Jolteon all together. There are better Electric types in M-Manectric and Rotom-AnyForme. Plus this Jolteon just seems like another Support Pokemon and like I said earlier you don't want too many Support Pokemon on a Doubles team.


    If I were you I'd run a DroughtTales / M-Char X / Rotom-H / Chlorophyll Venusaur / Two other Pokemon that are decent in Sun
    Personal Youtube: TerraTF

    Follow my Pokemon Y Nuzlocke here

    Shinies are just a palette swap. If its not bred well, don't use it.

  3. #3
    Outplay the Coinflip -Glory Blaze-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate This Team!

    Protect is key in VGC regardless of whether or not he's running his own EQ and Surf - it lets him keep a Pokémon on the field while one of its checks is removed by a partner, for instance. Also RMTs are meant for constructive criticism and improvement of the team that's already there, you pretty much just dished on his team and then suggested something entirely different (and entirely too Rock Slide weak :P)

  4. #4
    Is Not A Moderator TerraTF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate This Team!

    Quote Originally Posted by -Glory Blaze- View Post
    Protect is key in VGC regardless of whether or not he's running his own EQ and Surf - it lets him keep a Pokémon on the field while one of its checks is removed by a partner, for instance. Also RMTs are meant for constructive criticism and improvement of the team that's already there, you pretty much just dished on his team and then suggested something entirely different (and entirely too Rock Slide weak :P)
    His team only has one of the two components of being a useful Doubles team. Its just fast. There's no hitting hard outside of Delphox or M-Luke.
    Personal Youtube: TerraTF

    Follow my Pokemon Y Nuzlocke here

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  5. #5
    Registered User chaos_Leader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate This Team!

    Quote Originally Posted by TerraTF View Post
    So you want a Prankster that's good I'd assume? Klefki is a biggie. Especially if you want to abuse the shit out of SwagPlay in VGC.
    Maybe if I had more physical bruisers on this team that could benefit from the nifty Safeguard/Swagger trick that Klefkis and Meowstics do. As it stands, my heavy hitters are all special sweepers, and Klefki doesn't get Will-O-Wisp at all, which is an integral part of my physical defense.

    I'd go @Power Herb for the item. It'll give you a chance to use Solar Beam if you're unsuccessful in getting a Sunny Day up. There also is the alternative of running M-Charizard Y or a Ninetales in one of your later slots.
    Power Herb does seem like nifty insurance for a Solarbeam, I'll keep that in mind. M-Charizard Y doesn't work here since I'm already running a different mega on this team. Actually, when I first started putting this team together, I did want to use a drought Ninetails to fill this role, but apparently Ninetails isn't allowed in VGC 2014 rules. I heard that will likely change when the 2015 rules come around, in which case you can bet I'll get Drought Ninetails on this team and see how it runs. Until then, Delphox is what's what I've got to fill that role.

    Go with 4 Attack M-Luke or just drop it. Not a single Pokemon on your team runs EQ or Surf so Protect is useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by -Glory Blaze- View Post
    Protect is key in VGC regardless of whether or not he's running his own EQ and Surf - it lets him keep a Pokémon on the field while one of its checks is removed by a partner, for instance.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Protect is kind of really necessary to help preserve the Lucario and other comparatively fragile sweepers.

    Needs Knock Off. Otherwise its alright.
    It's a good thought, but Weavile doesn't get Knock Off unfortunately, not through leveling, not through breeding, not even through transfer. A shame. aaaand my newbieness shows, whoops, thanks Glory Blaze for the clarification. Darn it! Weavile can get Knock Off as a transfer move, but the VGC '14 format doesn't allow non-Kalos mons

    I'd just drop Jolteon all together. There are better Electric types in M-Manectric and Rotom-AnyForme. Plus this Jolteon just seems like another Support Pokemon and like I said earlier you don't want too many Support Pokemon on a Doubles team.
    There's already a Mega evolution on the team, so M-Manectric is kind of out of luck there, I mentioned that already. Rotom might seem like an appealing alternative, but Wash will get eaten away by A M-Charizard Y's Solar Beam faster than it can spit back thunderbolts, and Mow will be roasted by a Heat Wave, similarly with Heat and Fan if the opponent packs any rock slides (the other very popular, very prevalent means to down the flying fire types). I like having Jolteon here since it can deal with the Mega Charizard Y/Talonflame threats quickly, efficiently, and does indeed have a usable disruptive support movepool which can compliment the Thunder Bolting and sometimes Shadow Balling.

    Quote Originally Posted by TerraTF View Post
    His team only has one of the two components of being a useful Doubles team. Its just fast. There's no hitting hard outside of Delphox or M-Luke.
    Right... So Jolly old Life Orb Weavile with 120 Atk and maxed EVs is just there for show then, and Jolteon's 110 SpA with maxed EVs won't even make a dent. Got it! :P
    Last edited by chaos_Leader; Yesterday at 01:59 PM.
    BadAssGardevoir likes this.

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  7. #7
    Registered User chaos_Leader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate This Team!

    Quote Originally Posted by -Glory Blaze- View Post
    Weavile does get knock off as a B2W2 tutor move and it needs it to be effective.
    Ah, my mistake. In any case, I don't own a copy of either of those games, so it may not be feasible.

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  9. #9
    Registered User chaos_Leader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate This Team!

    It's tempting, but I think this is what I was afraid of...

    Article 9.2 of the official VGC 2014 rules: the Kalos Native clause.

    9.2. Kalos Native. Pokémon used in the Standard Format must be native to the Kalos region in Pokémon X or Pokémon Y. A native Pokémon is a Pokémon that is hatched or caught in Pokémon X or Pokémon Y. Pokémon that have been transferred to Pokémon X or Pokémon Y via Pokémon Bank or Poké Transporter are not native.
    If the Weavile came from a Gen V game or earlier, then it won't qualify anyway.

  10. #10
    Outplay the Coinflip -Glory Blaze-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate This Team!

    Ah, too bad. Knock Off is illegal for the '14 VGCs, then. Shame, since it's one of the only reasons Weavile is so much better this gen (good enough to get himself BL'd!)

  11. #11
    Is Not A Moderator TerraTF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate This Team!

    Quote Originally Posted by chaos_Leader View Post
    It's tempting, but I think this is what I was afraid of...

    Article 9.2 of the official VGC 2014 rules: the Kalos Native clause.

    9.2. Kalos Native. Pokémon used in the Standard Format must be native to the Kalos region in Pokémon X or Pokémon Y. A native Pokémon is a Pokémon that is hatched or caught in Pokémon X or Pokémon Y. Pokémon that have been transferred to Pokémon X or Pokémon Y via Pokémon Bank or Poké Transporter are not native.
    If the Weavile came from a Gen V game or earlier, then it won't qualify anyway.
    And under that rule you can breed yourself a nice little DroughtPix for this team.
    Personal Youtube: TerraTF

    Follow my Pokemon Y Nuzlocke here

    Shinies are just a palette swap. If its not bred well, don't use it.

  12. #12
    Registered User chaos_Leader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate This Team!

    Quote Originally Posted by TerraTF View Post
    And under that rule you can breed yourself a nice little DroughtPix for this team.
    And I Would. I have a Vulpix in my box with Heat Wave, drought, and enough perfect 31 IVs to work with for breeding. What's holding this awesome train of thought in the station is this little nugget in article 9.1:

    Players may use Pokémon from the Central Kalos Pokédex from #001 to #150, Coastal Kalos Pokédex from #001 to #153, or Mountain Kalos Pokédex from #001 to #147.
    They have to be in the Kalos Pokédex for '14 VGC, but like I mentioned earlier, this is probably going to be lifted for the '15 rules, maybe even transfers will be allowed, who knows?

    Here's a link to all these rules: http://assets22.pokemon.com/assets/cms/pdf/op/tournaments/2014/Play_Pokemon_VG_Rules_and_Formats_2014.pdf

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