The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

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    Default The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    The Pokémon Company is cracking down on "illegal Pokémon" at tournaments.

    The Pokémon Company has recently issued a statement on the matter - helpfully translated on NeoGAF - deterring hackers by saying these illicit methods can harm the saved game on the cartridge and should anyone be found using what it calls an "illegal Pokémon" at a tournament they will automatically be disqualified and will not be able to compete in any future events.
    Link to article

    Link to NeoGAF
    Last edited by Reshi643; 28th June 2013 at 07:40 PM. Reason: Miss the " at the end of illegal Pokémon

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    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    Personally, as a competitive player I am glad that they are doing this. There are too few Pokémon players who actually go through the time to breed or soft reset for their Pokémon - they just RNG or worse, use these programs to have the Pokémon generated for them - and as hackers have found out exactly how to, these Pokémon aren't picked up on the current hack-checkers.

    One idea a friend of mine suggested was GameFreak simply removing IVs. This may sound like a ridiculous proposal at first, but when you think about it, the majority of hacking is done for IVs. Natures can easily be controlled, as can EVs. IVs can be very random at times. Some players will want all 31IVs, while others will want others to be specific values in order to manipulate the type and strength of Hidden Power. All they have to do is give Hidden Power the base power of 70 (the highest it can be) and even have an in-game way to choose its type (like maybe an item that can be used on the Pokémon that changes its type, like a vitamin?). Then, when a Pokémon is migrated over from a previous generation, its stats are recalculated according to the loss of IVs (so Base Stat + EVs) and their Hidden Power type is kept the same until manually changed.

    Then, they could add some kind of bar below a Pokémon's stats in the status screen to roughly show how many EVs it has in a certain stat, so those are more visible as well.

    In one simple revamp, you can get rid of the main need for hacking and make the game more accessible to new players.

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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Personally, as a competitive player I am glad that they are doing this. There are too few Pokémon players who actually go through the time to breed or soft reset for their Pokémon - they just RNG or worse, use these programs to have the Pokémon generated for them - and as hackers have found out exactly how to, these Pokémon aren't picked up on the current hack-checkers.

    One idea a friend of mine suggested was GameFreak simply removing IVs. This may sound like a ridiculous proposal at first, but when you think about it, the majority of hacking is done for IVs. Natures can easily be controlled, as can EVs. IVs can be very random at times. Some players will want all 31IVs, while others will want others to be specific values in order to manipulate the type and strength of Hidden Power. All they have to do is give Hidden Power the base power of 70 (the highest it can be) and even have an in-game way to choose its type (like maybe an item that can be used on the Pokémon that changes its type, like a vitamin?). Then, when a Pokémon is migrated over from a previous generation, its stats are recalculated according to the loss of IVs (so Base Stat + EVs) and their Hidden Power type is kept the same until manually changed.

    Then, they could add some kind of bar below a Pokémon's stats in the status screen to roughly show how many EVs it has in a certain stat, so those are more visible as well.

    In one simple revamp, you can get rid of the main need for hacking and make the game more accessible to new players.
    About RNG abuse, apparently game freak is fine with it according to Raikoo.

    @Yorumi I talked to a game freak employee at worlds 2011, and I asked him what game freak's view on RNG abuse. He said that game freak doesn't care about RNG abuse at all and they don't consider it cheating at all, they consider it CLEVER that someone has figured out the system and how to manipulate how it works.
    http://puu.sh/3qEwo.jpg
    Even if it is how the game was intended to be played, game freak clearly shows it doesn't have a problem with RNG abuse.
    also, looks like I got the date wrong, if anyone wants me to retake, I will. (26 isn't 29...)
    He posted this in the same article that was posted.

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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Personally, as a competitive player I am glad that they are doing this. There are too few Pokémon players who actually go through the time to breed or soft reset for their Pokémon - they just RNG or worse, use these programs to have the Pokémon generated for them - and as hackers have found out exactly how to, these Pokémon aren't picked up on the current hack-checkers.

    One idea a friend of mine suggested was GameFreak simply removing IVs. This may sound like a ridiculous proposal at first, but when you think about it, the majority of hacking is done for IVs. Natures can easily be controlled, as can EVs. IVs can be very random at times. Some players will want all 31IVs, while others will want others to be specific values in order to manipulate the type and strength of Hidden Power. All they have to do is give Hidden Power the base power of 70 (the highest it can be) and even have an in-game way to choose its type (like maybe an item that can be used on the Pokémon that changes its type, like a vitamin?). Then, when a Pokémon is migrated over from a previous generation, its stats are recalculated according to the loss of IVs (so Base Stat + EVs) and their Hidden Power type is kept the same until manually changed.

    Then, they could add some kind of bar below a Pokémon's stats in the status screen to roughly show how many EVs it has in a certain stat, so those are more visible as well.

    In one simple revamp, you can get rid of the main need for hacking and make the game more accessible to new players.
    This has also occurred to me. You would still keep breeding around for egg moves, but otherwise it solves a lot of problems.

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    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Deitylight View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Personally, as a competitive player I am glad that they are doing this. There are too few Pokémon players who actually go through the time to breed or soft reset for their Pokémon - they just RNG or worse, use these programs to have the Pokémon generated for them - and as hackers have found out exactly how to, these Pokémon aren't picked up on the current hack-checkers.

    One idea a friend of mine suggested was GameFreak simply removing IVs. This may sound like a ridiculous proposal at first, but when you think about it, the majority of hacking is done for IVs. Natures can easily be controlled, as can EVs. IVs can be very random at times. Some players will want all 31IVs, while others will want others to be specific values in order to manipulate the type and strength of Hidden Power. All they have to do is give Hidden Power the base power of 70 (the highest it can be) and even have an in-game way to choose its type (like maybe an item that can be used on the Pokémon that changes its type, like a vitamin?). Then, when a Pokémon is migrated over from a previous generation, its stats are recalculated according to the loss of IVs (so Base Stat + EVs) and their Hidden Power type is kept the same until manually changed.

    Then, they could add some kind of bar below a Pokémon's stats in the status screen to roughly show how many EVs it has in a certain stat, so those are more visible as well.

    In one simple revamp, you can get rid of the main need for hacking and make the game more accessible to new players.
    About RNG abuse, apparently game freak is fine with it according to Raikoo.

    @Yorumi I talked to a game freak employee at worlds 2011, and I asked him what game freak's view on RNG abuse. He said that game freak doesn't care about RNG abuse at all and they don't consider it cheating at all, they consider it CLEVER that someone has figured out the system and how to manipulate how it works.
    http://puu.sh/3qEwo.jpg
    Even if it is how the game was intended to be played, game freak clearly shows it doesn't have a problem with RNG abuse.
    also, looks like I got the date wrong, if anyone wants me to retake, I will. (26 isn't 29...)
    He posted this in the same article that was posted.
    Then can't they at least make it easier for fans to manipulate IVs?

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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    Hey, can they scan the ENTIRE game? If so, my shiny mew+celebi are visiting version White.

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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    I'm somewhat of a pessimist at heart, so I really don't think this is going to go anywhere. I mean, sure, as a player who has never owned a cheating device or hacked the game (I consider RNG legal because it doesn't alter the game's coding), I think that people shouldn't cheat. But I honestly don't mind battling hacked Pokemon, so long as they have legal stats. Quite honestly, I think the Pokemon Company agrees with me. Depending on what circles you run in, you may or may not know that in 2010, at the Indianapolis Nationals, they let in a hacked Pokemon. Granted said Pokemon's hacks didn't really matter. I think it was just two additional EV's, and they were added in such a way that all the stats were legal.

    Because of a sort of blase attitude in the beginning, I don't think this is going anywhere. And really, why should it? I mean, we all know that cheating is morally wrong. But who decides what's good and bad? The person/people sitting on the other side. Eh, I'd like for there to be less cheating. I think that if a player doesn't put the time into the game, they shouldn't get the end result. But people are going to cheat.

    And now for responses to other posts in this thread!

    @Eeveewithwings123; I'm pretty sure they only check the Pokemon that you are using in battle. Granted I've never actually participated in an official Pokemon event, but I have a friend that has gone to nats.

    @Joshawott; I agree that everything would be so much simpler if the IV's weren't a factor. I think there will be an overhaul of them one day, but you mentioned HP, and that might be the reason why they can't get rid of them. Plus I think I read (I don't know where) that they'd make IV's easier to read in the coming generations, but that implies that they'll still be there...

    And yeah, RNG is officially allowed in Pokemon tournaments because it doesn't forcibly alter the game's coding. I mean, sure, you need patience, and you need to download RNG Reporter, but when it comes down to the actual RNG, all you're doing is changing the day and time and flipping between Chatots. And I guess battling if you're doing wild capture or stationary abuse or something.

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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    ...and it can damage the cartridge....
    Nintendo. GameFreak. I can understand you wanting to cut down on cheaters at your tournaments. But that is no reason to lie about such things. Those fake GTS servers are no more harmful than you attempting to connect to the official GTS server.

    Besides, how do you propose to cut down on said cheating? A lot of "illegal" pokemon are completely indistinguishable from the real thing, even by fan made legitimacy checking systems, which are a lot more stringent than your methods. If you end up banning people who's pokemon look too good to be true, then you'll end up banning and pushing away many players who have no idea such systems even exist.
    Last edited by Raine Caulwell; 29th June 2013 at 06:26 AM. Reason: Mixed up BBS codes

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    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyScathach View Post
    I'm somewhat of a pessimist at heart, so I really don't think this is going to go anywhere. I mean, sure, as a player who has never owned a cheating device or hacked the game (I consider RNG legal because it doesn't alter the game's coding), I think that people shouldn't cheat. But I honestly don't mind battling hacked Pokemon, so long as they have legal stats. Quite honestly, I think the Pokemon Company agrees with me. Depending on what circles you run in, you may or may not know that in 2010, at the Indianapolis Nationals, they let in a hacked Pokemon. Granted said Pokemon's hacks didn't really matter. I think it was just two additional EV's, and they were added in such a way that all the stats were legal.
    If I remember correctly, in that same year, there was a user at Worlds (I know his name, but I'd rather not say it xD) who used a Giratina that was in the same situation - it had 2 more EVs than normally allowed by the game and he was disqualified.

    And yeah, RNG is officially allowed in Pokemon tournaments because it doesn't forcibly alter the game's coding. I mean, sure, you need patience, and you need to download RNG Reporter, but when it comes down to the actual RNG, all you're doing is changing the day and time and flipping between Chatots. And I guess battling if you're doing wild capture or stationary abuse or something.
    In the Top 4 of the UK Nationals this year, at least half of the players had perfect nature and IV Defiant Tornadus. Due to the way Pokémon Dream Radar Pokémon are determined, that's so rare that it'd be practically impossible to get via normal means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raine Caulwell View Post
    ...and it can damage the cartridge....
    Nintendo. GameFreak. I can understand you wanting to cut down on cheaters at your tournaments. But that is no reason to lie about such things. Those fake GTS servers are no more harmful than you attempting to connect to the official GTS server.

    Besides, how do you propose to cut down on said cheating? A lot of "illegal" pokemon are completely indistinguishable from the real thing, even by fan made legitimacy checking systems, which are a lot more stringent than your methods. If you end up banning people who's pokemon look too good to be true, then you'll end up banning and pushing away many players who have no idea such systems even exist.
    I think they just mentioned the damaging the game as scare tactics to try and dissuade less informed people who might look into it xD.

    It is true that they will have a very hard time implementing it, such as as you said, a lot of these programs make Pokémon that are legitimate in coding. As the Nintendo 3DS has yet to be hacked and considering the nature of it having the ability to receive updates and patches, I can see these issues being taken care of once XY are out, but there will always be the issue of Gen III-V Pokémon being migrated over. GameFreak have stated that they are currently looking into a way for players to transfer their Pokémon over, so it's pretty much confirmed that we will have the ability to transfer old Pokémon over (after all, they don't want a repeat of the Gen III backlash). Maybe if they only allowed Kalos native Pokémon in official tournaments? *shrugs* (Which isn't an idea I'd agree with).
    Last edited by Joshawott; 29th June 2013 at 09:13 AM.

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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Raine Caulwell View Post
    ...and it can damage the cartridge....
    Nintendo. GameFreak. I can understand you wanting to cut down on cheaters at your tournaments. But that is no reason to lie about such things. Those fake GTS servers are no more harmful than you attempting to connect to the official GTS server.

    Besides, how do you propose to cut down on said cheating? A lot of "illegal" pokemon are completely indistinguishable from the real thing, even by fan made legitimacy checking systems, which are a lot more stringent than your methods. If you end up banning people who's pokemon look too good to be true, then you'll end up banning and pushing away many players who have no idea such systems even exist.
    The funny part about the fake gts server is that it's used for checking if the pokemon is hacked or not! Not to mention it is immensely difficult to tell the difference between a legal-hacked pokemon and a RNG pokemon (which people WILL often mistake for hacked pokemon especially if the team is all shiny).

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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    If you get DQ'd in a tournament for hack check most likely you really didn't check hard enough or did your research, because with websites like Pokecheck you can now do a full analysis if a certain Pokemon of yours/someones' is legal.
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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    Why don't they just make it that link battles automatically set any participant's Pokemon to "Perfect" IVs, and on the PC a link battle Hidden Power selector?

    Makes sense to me. Nobody needs to hack and offline they still have their "originality". Natures and abilities granted, but at least most of the BS is taken care of right there.

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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    Finally! When I was participating in a Pokemon Tornament in Birmingham I had to battle this guy, who just so happened to have 6 SHINEY Pokemon... Oh yea, and not forgetting the Blastoise that could fly. In my mind if you enter a Tornament, do it legit!!

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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    Surely the server should be able to detect this sort of thing when you battle via wifi.

    Was battling a random person over wifi, he had a Salamence, it used Flamethrower (nothing dodgy about that) and I used Ice Beam, but it wasn't very effective, oh, it was actually a Metagross with Zoroarks illusion ability.

    I just switched the game off there, I was so annoyed the Nintendo server would allow a clearly fake mon like that battle over Wifi.

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    Default Re: The Pokémon Company Lays Down The Law On Cheaters

    I wish there was a way to wipe out the cheaters, but there won't be.
    This battle tournament going on right now is no fun at all.
    I thought pokemon battling was about picking your favorite pokemon and training them, not picking ALL SHINY LEGENDARIES AND UBERS.
    How is that fun?

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