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Thread: OU Hail

  1. #1
    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default OU Hail



    Abomasnow@Leftovers
    Snow Warning
    Calm nature
    248 HP / 172 Def / 84 Sp. Def
    -- Substitute
    -- Leech Seed
    -- Blizzard
    -- Giga Drain

    Pretty bog standard hail-setting-up subseeder. I don't usually end up leading with it, but it does pretty well against non-Specs'd Politoeds without Perish Song, as well as other water-types. It hates anything with HP Fire, though, especially if Heatran or Tentacruel are dead.



    Tentacruel@Black Sludge
    Liquid Ooze
    Bold nature
    252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
    -- Toxic Spikes
    -- Rapid Spin
    -- Scald
    -- Ice Beam

    Liquid Ooze over Rain Dish because, even though Rain Dish would help it counter rain teams as a whole better, Liquid Ooze means that this can actually handle Breloom decently (as long as it doesn't get too lucky with Bullet Seed). I'm thinking of replacing Toxic Spikes - too many things immune to them. Maybe Protect or HP Fire?



    Reuniclus@Life Orb
    Magic Guard
    Bold nature
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def
    -- Calm Mind
    -- Recover
    -- Psychic
    -- Focus Blast

    This is probably the weakest link on the team. I find Psychic-types switching in to this a lot, so I've been considering replacing Focus Blast with Shadow Ball if I don't replace Reuniclus entirely.



    Heatran@Leftovers
    Flash Fire
    Timid nature
    252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    -- Magma Storm
    -- Substitute
    -- Earth Power
    -- Will-O-Wisp

    This thing is absolutely phenomenal. I usually end up leading with it, especially against sand teams. It's great T-tar bait; most people send out T-tar first, expecting me to lead with Abomasnow, and then stay in to try and set up rocks against Heatran while I safely sit behind a sub. From there, I can trap it, burn it, and stall it until it dies. Or, if I predict a switch, I can burn whatever comes in and get more residual damage on it. It has some problems if Blissey or Rotom-W switch in and get trapped in Magma Storm, but overall, definitely one of my MVPs.



    Skarmory@Leftovers
    Sturdy
    Impish nature
    252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
    -- Stealth Rock
    -- Roost
    -- Whirlwind
    -- Brave Bird

    I needed a Stealth Rocker since Heatran was doing something else. Not a whole hell of a lot else to say - the max defense lets it tank some hits I wouldn't have thought it could, but it's pretty much your standard max defense phasing Skarmory.



    Kyurem-B@Leftovers
    Terravolt
    Lonely nature
    56 HP / 216 Atk / 44 Sp. Atk / 192 Spe
    -- Dragon Claw
    -- Substitute
    -- Fusion Bolt
    -- Blizzard

    To be honest, I'm...a little disappointed. I know I don't have a Life Orb on it, but not being able to take out a Blissey with Fusion Bolt is just sad, even if it was at a pretty good amount of HP. Still, definitely a great offensive force for the team, though it does have problems against Scizor and Ferrothorn if I haven't managed to take them out by late-game.

    ----------

    Overall, Infernape, Starmie, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, and sometimes Scizor are the biggest problems this team has. It's actually been doing quite well on Showdown, though again, Reuniclus is definitely the weakest link in the team. Heatran is also extremely important; if it dies, then I usually have a very hard time winning the match. Jirachi can be an issue because I can't switch Heatran directly in to it, and, as mentioned, Blissey can be annoying if I manage to trap it. I'd like to replace Reuiniclus with something that can deal with these threats more easily, but I'm not sure exactly what. Maybe a cleric or a fighting type?
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  2. #2
    Prayers to Oak Creek Angad's Avatar
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    Default Re: OU Hail

    Quote Originally Posted by Feliciano View Post


    Abomasnow@Leftovers
    Snow Warning
    Calm nature
    248 HP / 172 Def / 84 Sp. Def
    -- Substitute
    -- Leech Seed
    -- Blizzard
    -- Giga Drain

    Try the Mixed Attacker Set for Abomasnow. It's remarkably solid against opposing weather inducers and deals solid damage on a large part of the metagame.



    Tentacruel@Black Sludge
    Liquid Ooze
    Bold nature
    252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
    -- Toxic Spikes
    -- Rapid Spin
    -- Scald
    -- Ice Beam

    Going with Rain Dish is probably your best bet, as you shouldn't be using Tentacruel to check Breloom and you want to have the advantage on Rain. You also should be using Toxic Spikes because if you aren't using T-Spikes, you probably better off with going with Starmie. Starmie could be a very effective replacement, seeing as you can still maintain coverage against Rain Teams and can run Recover for longevity. Choose at your own discretion. If you stick with Tentacruel, you may want to put a spinblocker on the team to keep T-Spikes up. HP Fire or Blizzard could also be used over Ice Beam, mainly for Ferrothorn.



    Reuniclus@Life Orb
    Magic Guard
    Bold nature
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def
    -- Calm Mind
    -- Recover
    -- Psychic
    -- Focus Blast

    You might want to try Offensive Trick Room Reuniclus to be able to kill the momentum of Offensive Teams. Latias is also a suitable replacement to solve your Rotom-W, Starmie (with Recover) and Infernape problem. Running HP Fire could also make dealing with (or even baiting in) Ferrothorn and Scizor, but Psyshock is convenient against Terrakion and Keldeo.


    Heatran@Leftovers
    Flash Fire
    Timid nature
    252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    -- Magma Storm
    -- Substitute
    -- Earth Power
    -- Will-O-Wisp

    Looks solid, Maybe Toxic over EP for Politoed, but I haven't tested it so take it with a grain of salt. I don't think Heatran should be used to stop Sandstorm and Rain though. It's supposed to be a sun counter and as such it should be a bit more offensive. The Offensive Set with SR has rarely failed me, and could free up a slot for your Skarmory(or Skarmory Replacement).



    Skarmory@Leftovers
    Sturdy
    Impish nature
    252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
    -- Stealth Rock
    -- Roost
    -- Whirlwind
    -- Brave Bird

    It looks like it could work for your team, but you might want to run Landorus-T to keep rocks and be able to shift momentum against Sandstorm teams. Jirachi could also be used to get Rocks up while supporting the team with Wish and stopping Tornadus-T in its tracks. If Heatran runs SR, Jirachi is also able to run Fire Punch.



    Kyurem-B@Leftovers
    Terravolt
    Lonely nature
    56 HP / 216 Atk / 44 Sp. Atk / 192 Spe
    -- Dragon Claw
    -- Substitute
    -- Fusion Bolt
    -- Blizzard

    I haven't actually used Cube on a Hail team, but SubHoneClawsD-Tail was solid for me on my Rain Team. Your set looks like it should work, so maybe it's just an issue of learning how his set should work. How often can he sweep? Toxic Spikes can help you win the war against Blissey, but the issue lies in keeping them up.
    ----------

    Overall, Infernape, Starmie, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, and sometimes Scizor are the biggest problems this team has. It's actually been doing quite well on Showdown, though again, Reuniclus is definitely the weakest link in the team. Heatran is also extremely important; if it dies, then I usually have a very hard time winning the match. Jirachi can be an issue because I can't switch Heatran directly in to it, and, as mentioned, Blissey can be annoying if I manage to trap it. I'd like to replace Reuiniclus with something that can deal with these threats more easily, but I'm not sure exactly what. Maybe a cleric or a fighting type?


    I haven't critiqued in a while, but hopefully this can help.
    Last edited by Angad; 8th January 2013 at 09:12 PM.

    Much love to Zurr

  3. #3
    Not that masterful The pokemaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: OU Hail

    What kind of a general feel are you aiming for with this team? Because I feel like you're wasting too much of your team just trying to check other weather teams and then there isn't much left to work with. The Mixed Attacker set for Abomasnow that Angad suggested is really popular for a good reason, it's very effective at countering other weather teams. With that, I feel like it really opens up the rest of your team.

    With Heatran, if you have your heart set on an Offensive build, then I would probably recommend the standard Smogon build. If you're looking for a bit more utility, then Heatran is great to run Stealth Rocks, as well as Roar phazing and Toxic. Personally, I like a more defensive build since it has a lot of utilities to support a lot of teams, and I've used one on quite a few teams. For your team, I think you could work with a good specially defensive set that can set up Stealth Rock, letting your Skarmory run spikes so you can take full advantage of all the hazards

    Heatran @ Leftovers/Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume/Flamethrower/Magma Storm
    - Protect
    - Stealth Rock
    - Will-o-Wisp

    Since you have Toxic Spikes support from Tentacruel, you can probably pass up Toxic to keep the WoW, to still burn powerful physical threats like Tyranitar should you lose Abomasnow, and give you more physical bulk since this is a specially defensive set. You could also replace WoW/Toxic with Roar, since having two phazers in Skarmory and Heatran can be a powerful thing with all three hazards + hail. If you chose WoW though, you can choose some other fire move for you coverage, since I use Lava Plume for its 30% Burn chance, which is a little less useful with WoW on the same set. This specially defensive set also gives you some special bulk to deal with some of the more powerful special attackers like Latios that might be able to do a lot more damage to your team otherwise, and since the rest of your bulky Pokemon are physically defensive.

    Angad's suggestions for Tentacruel is pretty much all I have to say. It's a good Pokemon and the Toxic Spikes can really help the team. Rain Dish over Liquid Ooze is preferred since it doesn't really help check Breloom an awful lot better, and then you can wall all the things you might find on a rain team. Again, a spinblocker would be greatly recommended though if you do stick with Tentacruel, so I'll get to that in a sec. If you wanted another bulky Water type to take the place of Tentacruel, you could probably go with Rotom-Wash, it has so many things it can do. x_x

    As for your Reuniclus, I can understand why it's acting as your weakest link. I feel like you're trying to be both a wall and a powerful attacker with it, and it's just not working out. This is where I suggest your spinblocker goes. I would suggest either Gengar set to make up for your lack of offense or my personal favourite, Sableye. I'm not going to try and recommend a Gengar set because I've honestly never liked him, and never used him properly. But Sableye can be fun, and support your team with some extra status, like priority Will-o-Wisp, which means you could probably replace WoW with Roar on Heatran.

    Sableye (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
    - Recover
    - Taunt
    - Night Shade

  4. #4
    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Re: OU Hail

    So after testing the initial team and making some of the suggested changes, here are some notes.

    -- Starmie does NOT have the synergy that Tentacruel did. I'll be putting Tentacruel back on the team.

    -- The mixed Abomasnow set works well, but it misses being able to make a sub.

    -- Latias is a great Reuniclus replacement.

    -- The initial Heatran set still works great. I don't feel like it needs to be changed.

    -- Landorus-T makes for an exceptionally useful offensive force alongside also being able to set up rocks.

    -- Now it actually feels like Kyurem-B is the weakest link on the team.
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  5. #5
    Prayers to Oak Creek Angad's Avatar
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    Default Re: OU Hail

    Quote Originally Posted by Feliciano View Post
    So after testing the initial team and making some of the suggested changes, here are some notes.

    -- Starmie does NOT have the synergy that Tentacruel did. I'll be putting Tentacruel back on the team.

    -- The mixed Abomasnow set works well, but it misses being able to make a sub.

    -- Latias is a great Reuniclus replacement.

    -- The initial Heatran set still works great. I don't feel like it needs to be changed.

    -- Landorus-T makes for an exceptionally useful offensive force alongside also being able to set up rocks.

    -- Now it actually feels like Kyurem-B is the weakest link on the team.
    Do you mind elaborating on what are your main threats now and the Latias Set you are using?

    Much love to Zurr

  6. #6
    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Re: OU Hail

    Quote Originally Posted by Angad View Post
    Do you mind elaborating on what are your main threats now and the Latias Set you are using?
    Oh, derp. Sorry.

    Latias@Life Orb
    Timid nature
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -- Psyshock
    -- Draco Meteor
    -- Recover
    -- Hidden Power (fire)

    Latias over Latios pretty much solely for Recover. Life Orb+Hail means that Latios probably wouldn't see much action. I'm thinking of changing up Hidden Powers, though, since I put HP Fire on Tentacruel.

    Hm...biggest threats since I put Tentacruel back on the team are Fighting-types in general. Latias and Tentacruel aren't too great on the physically defensive side, and can't usually stand up to the coverage moves too well. Landorus-T is usually my best bet.

    OH. Hydration Vaporeon on Rain teams. I got pretty much completely stalled by one with Roar - I just don't have anything that can hit hard enough barring Kyurem-B, but because of the potential burn on Scald, I can't switch it in safely.
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  7. #7
    Prayers to Oak Creek Angad's Avatar
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    Default Re: OU Hail

    Quote Originally Posted by Feliciano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angad View Post
    Do you mind elaborating on what are your main threats now and the Latias Set you are using?
    Oh, derp. Sorry.

    Latias@Life Orb
    Timid nature
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -- Psyshock
    -- Draco Meteor
    -- Recover
    -- Hidden Power (fire)

    Latias over Latios pretty much solely for Recover. Life Orb+Hail means that Latios probably wouldn't see much action. I'm thinking of changing up Hidden Powers, though, since I put HP Fire on Tentacruel.

    Hm...biggest threats since I put Tentacruel back on the team are Fighting-types in general. Latias and Tentacruel aren't too great on the physically defensive side, and can't usually stand up to the coverage moves too well. Landorus-T is usually my best bet.

    OH. Hydration Vaporeon on Rain teams. I got pretty much completely stalled by one with Roar - I just don't have anything that can hit hard enough barring Kyurem-B, but because of the potential burn on Scald, I can't switch it in safely.
    I have trouble seeing the fighting issue with your team. You've got Latias for Keldeo and Infernape, Landorus for Conkeldurr, Lucario (without Ice Punch), and Terrakion. Couldn't you use Abomasnow as a counter to Hydration Vaporeon?

    Much love to Zurr

  8. #8
    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Re: OU Hail

    Quote Originally Posted by Angad View Post
    I have trouble seeing the fighting issue with your team. You've got Latias for Keldeo and Infernape, Landorus for Conkeldurr, Lucario (without Ice Punch), and Terrakion. Couldn't you use Abomasnow as a counter to Hydration Vaporeon?
    The Vaporeon I got walled by had Roar and Rest, and I had switched back to the SubSeeder set for a little more bulk. I'll go back to the mixed set and see if it's still a problem, but it was a big thorn in my side as it was.

    I only say I have a fighting weakness because, if Latias goes down, then suddenly half of my team is weak to fighting and I have no effective sponge that can deal with them.
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  9. #9
    Prayers to Oak Creek Angad's Avatar
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    Default Re: OU Hail

    Quote Originally Posted by Feliciano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angad View Post
    I have trouble seeing the fighting issue with your team. You've got Latias for Keldeo and Infernape, Landorus for Conkeldurr, Lucario (without Ice Punch), and Terrakion. Couldn't you use Abomasnow as a counter to Hydration Vaporeon?
    The Vaporeon I got walled by had Roar and Rest, and I had switched back to the SubSeeder set for a little more bulk. I'll go back to the mixed set and see if it's still a problem, but it was a big thorn in my side as it was.

    I only say I have a fighting weakness because, if Latias goes down, then suddenly half of my team is weak to fighting and I have no effective sponge that can deal with them.
    Landorus and Latias seem like they should be able to handle fighting types together.

    Much love to Zurr

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