Minelayer team machination

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Thread: Minelayer team machination

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    Registered User SkyknightXi's Avatar
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    Default Minelayer team machination

    The main idea is to set up all three mine types, with a side of constantly sending a reserve pokemon skittering into the minefield. Hopefully, will be viable for all of single, double, and rotation (although I'm perfectly aware that that's probably not the case here).

    No items, personalities, or EV formations charted at the moment.

    TENTACRUEL (Liquid Ooze)
    --Scald
    --Toxic Spikes
    --Hex
    --Ice Beam/Rapid Spin

    Minelayer with some special resistance capability. Hex is part anti-psychic weaponry, part pick-on-the-poor-sap-who-just-got-poisoned-or-burned (if something else wouldn't already do more damage; that is, they're resistant to water and ice, and/or vulnerable to ghost). Ice Beam option for anti-grass et al., Rapid Spin option for maintaining a monopoly on mines.

    FLYGON (Levitate)
    --Dragon Tail
    --Hone Claws
    --Earthquake
    --Stone Edge

    Switch-forcer with a side of physical cannon sweeping (even if I first included Hone Claws more to make Dragon Tail more accurate than specifically to increase damage).

    SKARMORY (Sturdy)
    --Steel Wing
    --Brave Bird
    --Spikes
    --Roar

    Switch-forcer, physical resistance, mines, and a couple of side-arms in one tidy package.

    CHANDELURE (Shadow Tag...although how to GET Shadow Tag at this time...)
    --Flame Burst/Heat Wave
    --Shadow Ball
    --Energy Ball
    --Confuse Ray/Acid Armor/Haze/Clear Smog

    A special turret that also punishes anyone trying to banish YOUR mines. Flame Burst is more powerful on the primary target, while Heat Wave has a burn chance (and more damage on the secondary). I'm not decided on the fourth, utility slot. Confuse Ray for general damage dampening, Acid Armor for physical resistance, Clear Smog for boost removal + damage (as long as they're not steel, but Flame Burst/Heat Wave arguably helps in that regard), Haze for damageless boost removal that WILL find steels.

    CRUSTLE (Shell Armor)
    --Stealth Rock
    --Curse
    --X-Scissor
    --Rock Slide

    More of a physical tanker than Cradily, swapping force-shift for Curse. I'm aware that Crustle won't flinch anyone anytime soon, but Rock Slide does at least multi-target, unlike Stone Edge.

    GRUMPIG (Thick Fat)
    --Magic Coat
    --Whirlwind
    --Psychic
    --Power Gem

    I wasn't sure what to do for slot six, but I found myself wondering if Magic Coat might have a place against an enemy team's harasser(s). Not to mention another force-switch via Whirlwind. Power Gem is to interdict bugs (even if in most circumstances, Psychic does just barely less damage. Then again, Shadow Ball wouldn't leave me with much hope against anything dark-based...).

    I would have liked to get Cradily in here, but I was worried about unnecessary redundancy with Tentacruel on the special resistance front, not to mention that Cradily really wants a sandstorm team...

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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    I'm assuming by "mines" and "mine types" you mean Entry Hazards.

    Instead of having separate Pokémon setting each Entry Hazard, I'd suggest having one that can set both up - Forretress, for example, can set up Toxic Spikes and Spikes, and is bulky enough to be almost guaranteed to set one of them up, as well as having Rapid Spin to prevent your opponent from setting theirs up. I'm not really sure why you would have a Psychic-type Pokémon that's not really doing much with Magic Coat when there's an even more useful Psychic-type out there with that move already built in - Magic Bounce Espeon. Every member of your team seems to be trying to have a role in something related to Entry Hazards that you hope to place - be it pHazing, preventing the opponent from setting up or setting up yourself - which seems like a good idea at first, but if you don't get to set up your Hazards, then that's pretty much at least one moveslot wasted on each Pokémon.

    If you're sure you want a Dragon-type that can pHaze opposing Pokémon, then a Parashuffler Dragonite could come in handy, being able to take more attacks than Flygon, and generally support the rest of your team more effectively. Like I said in the previous paragraph, you could probably use Forretress to free up a slot in the team by taking out, probably, Tentacruel, and using a more Specially defensive set. There are also much better Stealth Rock users than Crustle - replacing Spikes with Stealth Rock on Skarmory if you use Forretress for Spikes would free up yet another slot that could be used for something else.

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    Registered User SkyknightXi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    I will own that under most circumstances, Crustle and Grumpig wouldn't have been among my first ideas for inclusions, except that I was absolutely determined to (a) not duplicate any type (e.g. not including two rock types) and, far more importantly, (b) not represent any vulnerability more than twice and (c) have each of the 17 resistances represented at least once. I can't remember whether I got all the resistances before or after Crustle, but there was still my worry about vulnerabilities...

    Tentacruel was my starting point, although from a potentially odd provision--Hex is the most appealing move in the game to me (it appeals to my cripple-first-THEN-bring-them-down mentality; I want to refute the primacy of power in every milieu at once, establish that the weak CAN defeat the strong on a consistent basis), and of those who can carry it, I liked Tentacruel the most (yes, even more than Chandelure and Jellicent...I know, odd), precisely because of the minelayer bit. (How is "entry hazard" really that accurate a term? "Hazard" still implies "can still be avoided if careful"; less harsh a term than "peril", at least. In contrast, how are you supposed to avoid mines?) No way to force the enemy team to keep entering the mines more than once each, though (I have a hard time believing anyone would include Stealth Rock/Spikes/Toxic Spikes without Whirlwind/Roar/Circle Throw/Dragon Tail somewhere as well, at least if they're there for more than just discouraging switching), so I need to find a good switch-forcer. (Note that pseudo-hazing wasn't on the mind at the time...or now, for that matter. Forcing damage/poisoning was the sole concern.) That's where I got the Dragon Tail/Hone Claws idea, to make certain that Dragon Tail would make contact. Thus, Flygon. (I think I might have dismissed Dragonite as...well...too facile. Where's the satisfaction in winning the way everybody else is winning?! All that proves is that you're good at mimicry...Perhaps also getting frustrated at finding anything like a good flying physical attack for it.) The other entrants are more open to transposition.

    As for piling Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Rapid Spin on Forretress...Leaves the question of what happens if it's left alone against a foe that resists whatever move #4 is. (q.v. Why I abandoned my Psychic/Charge Beam/Barrier/Baton Pass Mr. Mime plan with BW. Consider what's certain to happen if it's the only one left when Krookodile drops in...) Never mind that making it the only deployer of the spikes is going to cripple the team if it suffers a surprise scorching (I will at least trust the metagame is trusted to be able, and is certain, to sharply change several times BEFORE the next game gets published; in this case, fire attacks on critters that beforehand would never be expected to be carrying them). I want to make sure that no given pokemon on my side ever has a chance of being in an absolutely hopeless fight, basically, even with all the other five out of commission. Hence my attempts at redundancy.

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    EV-Wizard/PeculiarBattler League's Avatar
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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    I will own that under most circumstances, Crustle and Grumpig wouldn't have been among my first ideas for inclusions, except that I was absolutely determined to (a) not duplicate any type (e.g. not including two rock types) and, far more importantly, (b) not represent any vulnerability more than twice and (c) have each of the 17 resistances represented at least once. I can't remember whether I got all the resistances before or after Crustle, but there was still my worry about vulnerabilities...
    Having multiple pokemon of the same type can actually add to balance. Some teams have only one pokemon prepared to face a certain kind of threat--if that pokemon gets removed, teams can be hardpressed to get past your two pokemon of the one type. Otherwise, not all types are used as attacks--you don't have to resist Poison and Flying so much (granted, Skarmory does that easily). Ultimately, I think you're getting hung up on minor details/rules of basic team design, and these rules can be broken once you're good enough.

    Tentacruel was my starting point, although from a potentially odd provision--Hex is the most appealing move in the game to me (it appeals to my cripple-first-THEN-bring-them-down mentality; I want to refute the primacy of power in every milieu at once, establish that the weak CAN defeat the strong on a consistent basis), and of those who can carry it, I liked Tentacruel the most (yes, even more than Chandelure and Jellicent...I know, odd), precisely because of the minelayer bit. (How is "entry hazard" really that accurate a term? "Hazard" still implies "can still be avoided if careful"; less harsh a term than "peril", at least. In contrast, how are you supposed to avoid mines?) No way to force the enemy team to keep entering the mines more than once each, though (I have a hard time believing anyone would include Stealth Rock/Spikes/Toxic Spikes without Whirlwind/Roar/Circle Throw/Dragon Tail somewhere as well, at least if they're there for more than just discouraging switching), so I need to find a good switch-forcer. (Note that pseudo-hazing wasn't on the mind at the time...or now, for that matter. Forcing damage/poisoning was the sole concern.) That's where I got the Dragon Tail/Hone Claws idea, to make certain that Dragon Tail would make contact. Thus, Flygon. (I think I might have dismissed Dragonite as...well...too facile. Where's the satisfaction in winning the way everybody else is winning?! All that proves is that you're good at mimicry...Perhaps also getting frustrated at finding anything like a good flying physical attack for it.) The other entrants are more open to transposition.
    Hex is a terrible move though. Tentacruel is stronger than Jellicent.

    As for piling Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Rapid Spin on Forretress...Leaves the question of what happens if it's left alone against a foe that resists whatever move #4 is. (q.v. Why I abandoned my Psychic/Charge Beam/Barrier/Baton Pass Mr. Mime plan with BW. Consider what's certain to happen if it's the only one left when Krookodile drops in...) Never mind that making it the only deployer of the spikes is going to cripple the team if it suffers a surprise scorching (I will at least trust the metagame is trusted to be able, and is certain, to sharply change several times BEFORE the next game gets published; in this case, fire attacks on critters that beforehand would never be expected to be carrying them). I want to make sure that no given pokemon on my side ever has a chance of being in an absolutely hopeless fight, basically, even with all the other five out of commission. Hence my attempts at redundancy.
    Uh, I think you're going about this all in a way that is too philosophical.
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    Registered User SkyknightXi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    {icy gaze} There's no such thing as too philosophical. All things are a matter of philosophy.

    Meanwhile...I don't particularly like the idea of choosing just on who's regarded as stronger or weaker. (Remember what I said about wanting to prove in some way that the weak can consistently defeat the strong? In other words, that the very concepts of strength and weakness are meaningless? All that matter are foresight and cunning.) It's a matter of what can be done, and the EXACT mechanism of doing it. I will concede that if you don't have much of a way to ensure the target will suffer an ailment, Hex doesn't do well compared to Shadow Ball. But if you do have a way (e.g. Toxic Spikes...as long as they aren't all airborne, poison-based, and/or steel-based)...(Hopefully you're not relying THAT much on the -SDef effect. 1/5 isn't THAT frequent, absent someone with Serene Grace)

    For the record, before Hex, my favorite move was Confuse Ray. Favorite bearer: Cradily (something about carrying both Confuse Ray and Recover appeals to me. That, and how much its component types negate each other's vulnerabilities). I do also like Rain Dance giving both Thunder and Hurricane (with their status attacks) homing properties. (Hmmm...maybe part of why I passed over Dragonite for Honed Dragon Tail was because I was already pigeonholing it for that particular rain duty--it's the only pokemon that can equip both Thunder and Hurricane)

    {grumble, grumble} So frustrating...I don't want to begin PvP until I've got theory and methodology and aesthetics alike all perfected, and there is no way there's on point on the Venn diagram where they all meet. No opponent deserves to have their time wasted with anything less than perfection (no, perfectionism is NOT a vice! It is the same as the cardinal virtue of Fortitude!), and yet I haven't figured out what would be perfect with my mentality. Nothing seems to fully measure up enough to fully banish my discomfort...(Maybe if I listed all the moves that personally appeal to me, someone could divine some beginning out...)

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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    {icy gaze} There's no such thing as too philosophical. All things are a matter of philosophy.

    Meanwhile...I don't particularly like the idea of choosing just on who's regarded as stronger or weaker. (Remember what I said about wanting to prove in some way that the weak can consistently defeat the strong? In other words, that the very concepts of strength and weakness are meaningless? All that matter are foresight and cunning.) It's a matter of what can be done, and the EXACT mechanism of doing it. I will concede that if you don't have much of a way to ensure the target will suffer an ailment, Hex doesn't do well compared to Shadow Ball. But if you do have a way (e.g. Toxic Spikes...as long as they aren't all airborne, poison-based, and/or steel-based)...(Hopefully you're not relying THAT much on the -SDef effect. 1/5 isn't THAT frequent, absent someone with Serene Grace)

    For the record, before Hex, my favorite move was Confuse Ray. Favorite bearer: Cradily (something about carrying both Confuse Ray and Recover appeals to me. That, and how much its component types negate each other's vulnerabilities). I do also like Rain Dance giving both Thunder and Hurricane (with their status attacks) homing properties. (Hmmm...maybe part of why I passed over Dragonite for Honed Dragon Tail was because I was already pigeonholing it for that particular rain duty--it's the only pokemon that can equip both Thunder and Hurricane)

    {grumble, grumble} So frustrating...I don't want to begin PvP until I've got theory and methodology and aesthetics alike all perfected, and there is no way there's on point on the Venn diagram where they all meet. No opponent deserves to have their time wasted with anything less than perfection (no, perfectionism is NOT a vice! It is the same as the cardinal virtue of Fortitude!), and yet I haven't figured out what would be perfect with my mentality. Nothing seems to fully measure up enough to fully banish my discomfort...(Maybe if I listed all the moves that personally appeal to me, someone could divine some beginning out...)
    Why don't you just test this team out and tell us what gives you problems rather than asking for opinions since you don't want to listen to the advices anyway?
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    Quote Originally Posted by League View Post
    Having multiple pokemon of the same type can actually add to balance. Some teams have only one pokemon prepared to face a certain kind of threat--if that pokemon gets removed, teams can be hardpressed to get past your two pokemon of the one type.
    not on stall teams lol

    @SkyknightXi test out the team, take a look at some good stall teams on Smogon, and make the appropriate changes to your team. It definitely needs more improvements than I am currently comfortable with suggesting. Learn the metagame, then adjust your team to suit it.

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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    I will own that under most circumstances, Crustle and Grumpig wouldn't have been among my first ideas for inclusions, except that I was absolutely determined to (a) not duplicate any type (e.g. not including two rock types) and, far more importantly, (b) not represent any vulnerability more than twice and (c) have each of the 17 resistances represented at least once. I can't remember whether I got all the resistances before or after Crustle, but there was still my worry about vulnerabilities...
    A lot of successful teams, though, aren't as balanced as that when it comes to the team's synergy - they still have weaknesses. In my opinion, having a team that can counter main threats of the metagame is far more important than having a team that resists every type - what would you do, for example, if something came along and swept your team using moves that do neutral damage to your Pokémon, avoiding your resistances? You would lose the game because you would not have a counter for it due to being hung up on your team covering type weaknesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    (How is "entry hazard" really that accurate a term? "Hazard" still implies "can still be avoided if careful"; less harsh a term than "peril", at least. In contrast, how are you supposed to avoid mines?)
    Spikes and Toxic Spikes can be avoided with the use of a Flying-type/Levitate, with the latter being removed in the case of a Poison-type being switched in, while Steel-types aren't affected by them. Stealth Rock does minimal damage to type combinations that resist the Rock-type, with Pokémon that resist it at all being able to regain full health in one turn with Leftovers. The ability Magic Guard takes no damage at all from any hazard.

    To me, that says "hazard" not "certain death" or "peril".

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    As for piling Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Rapid Spin on Forretress...Leaves the question of what happens if it's left alone against a foe that resists whatever move #4 is. (q.v. Why I abandoned my Psychic/Charge Beam/Barrier/Baton Pass Mr. Mime plan with BW. Consider what's certain to happen if it's the only one left when Krookodile drops in...) Never mind that making it the only deployer of the spikes is going to cripple the team if it suffers a surprise scorching (I will at least trust the metagame is trusted to be able, and is certain, to sharply change several times BEFORE the next game gets published; in this case, fire attacks on critters that beforehand would never be expected to be carrying them). I want to make sure that no given pokemon on my side ever has a chance of being in an absolutely hopeless fight, basically, even with all the other five out of commission. Hence my attempts at redundancy.
    Which is where switching mid-battle comes in. You seem to me like the kind of person that plays by leaving each Pokémon out indefinitely, not the kind of person that switches when faced with a threat or problem. If someone switches in a Pokémon that resists one of your moves, then that's just battling - you make the same judgment they did, and switch in return to an appropriate counter. Simple battling.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    (I think I might have dismissed Dragonite as...well...too facile. Where's the satisfaction in winning the way everybody else is winning?! All that proves is that you're good at mimicry...Perhaps also getting frustrated at finding anything like a good flying physical attack for it.)
    So you're opting to maybe have a choice at winning battles with difficulty as opposed to having a Pokémon on the team that can make winning easier? To me, that seems to go against the whole "perfectionist" thing you have going - you're just making it harder for yourself. And, also, the Flying-type isn't the best offensive type out there - there's no need to attempt to make use of its every STAB.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    Meanwhile...I don't particularly like the idea of choosing just on who's regarded as stronger or weaker. (Remember what I said about wanting to prove in some way that the weak can consistently defeat the strong? In other words, that the very concepts of strength and weakness are meaningless? All that matter are foresight and cunning.) It's a matter of what can be done, and the EXACT mechanism of doing it.
    Unfortunately, the best way to win battles in OU is to pick strong Pokémon that hit hard. It may seem like a cool idea to win things with a weaker team - I should know, my most successful UU team had counters for most things in OU (and consistently messed people's teams up) - but, honestly, it's just unrealistic. If you're serious about winning battles, you should consider the Pokémon that everybody else uses. Rain teams, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    I will concede that if you don't have much of a way to ensure the target will suffer an ailment, Hex doesn't do well compared to Shadow Ball. But if you do have a way (e.g. Toxic Spikes...as long as they aren't all airborne, poison-based, and/or steel-based)...(Hopefully you're not relying THAT much on the -SDef effect. 1/5 isn't THAT frequent, absent someone with Serene Grace)
    A 20% chance happens a lot more often than you'd think.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    For the record, before Hex, my favorite move was Confuse Ray. Favorite bearer: Cradily (something about carrying both Confuse Ray and Recover appeals to me. That, and how much its component types negate each other's vulnerabilities). I do also like Rain Dance giving both Thunder and Hurricane (with their status attacks) homing properties. (Hmmm...maybe part of why I passed over Dragonite for Honed Dragon Tail was because I was already pigeonholing it for that particular rain duty--it's the only pokemon that can equip both Thunder and Hurricane)
    Dragonite. Hurricane. That's all I'm saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    {grumble, grumble} So frustrating...I don't want to begin PvP until I've got theory and methodology and aesthetics alike all perfected, and there is no way there's on point on the Venn diagram where they all meet. No opponent deserves to have their time wasted with anything less than perfection (no, perfectionism is NOT a vice! It is the same as the cardinal virtue of Fortitude!), and yet I haven't figured out what would be perfect with my mentality. Nothing seems to fully measure up enough to fully banish my discomfort...(Maybe if I listed all the moves that personally appeal to me, someone could divine some beginning out...)
    Exactly, they don't all meet, that's why team building is meant to be a challenge. Sometimes you sacrifice one thing to benefit the others, even if it annoys you. Unfortunately for you, aesthetics, the thing you seem most interested in with your team, really doesn't factor into battling at all, especially not in OU.
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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    {rueful chuckle} This always seems to happen with me...Critiquing, even when I ask for it, keeps sounding like a condemnation of my philosophy, thought patterns, etc. But no matter what, I can't sense within myself any voids where the proper elements of psyche would fit. If I were that gravely wrong, I ought to be able to sense precisely that mental void where the correct information belongs! (On another forum, after I mentioned my Asperger's Syndrome, someone else said that it probably rendered the critiquing effort there untenable because, in their experience, Aspergerites INHERENTLY interpreted disagreements as personal attacks. I would that I knew what the mechanism was behind this hypothesis...) At least I don't think I fell prey to that with my papers in college (other than horror that I'd let the professors' expectations down, even if they didn't know they were disappointed. Not expecting perfection makes no sense; why would anyone WANT someone to be defiled with imperfection...?).

    But I dare not abjure ANY of efficacy OR aesthetics OR philosophy. Whether or not the players or the game designers accept it, no game ought to be regarded in a fashion different from any other milieu; reality cannot be cut into pieces, nor the jurisdictions of good and evil. We're not supposed to escape ANYTHING. I'm not going to content myself with just something as frivolous as self-enjoyment; that's not enough for any endeavor to be justified. Ultimately, I can't let myself be swayed by any bias, whether my own or the metagame's. I'm trying for omniadaptation, something that will effective no matter WHAT the metagame looks like. The metagame is just the concrete; I want to solve for the infinite abstract. I must be a perfect machine of all the infinite virtues, else I am monstrously neglecting something.

    (Yes, I'm feeling THAT piqued/frustrated/depressed/etc.--and it's the sort of thing that's literally decades old on me. Why does humanity seem determined to condemn the very concept of perfection, of the abolition of error?! PERFECTION IS SUPERIOR TO HAPPINESS; IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO ABOLISH DISMAY THAN TO SUMMON HAPPINESS! Just by getting involved in the game--or anything else in the cosmos--one is beholden to an oath to greatly improve it, and I *will* follow through on that implicit oath...)

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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    A stall team that has ZERO reliable recovery?
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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    Should be telling I wasn't thinking in terms of stalling, but in terms of constantly forcing enemy switch via Whirlwind, Dragon Tail, and Roar...Spikes and Stealth Rock were meant to be THE main source of damage...

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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    You can't constantly use negative priority moves without any recovery. At least put Roost on Skarmory, Steel Wing is useless. I'd probably use Musharna over Grumpig. Musharna also gets Magic Coat and is a lot bulkier than Grumpig.
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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    {rueful chuckle} This always seems to happen with me...Critiquing, even when I ask for it, keeps sounding like a condemnation of my philosophy, thought patterns, etc. But no matter what, I can't sense within myself any voids where the proper elements of psyche would fit. If I were that gravely wrong, I ought to be able to sense precisely that mental void where the correct information belongs! (On another forum, after I mentioned my Asperger's Syndrome, someone else said that it probably rendered the critiquing effort there untenable because, in their experience, Aspergerites INHERENTLY interpreted disagreements as personal attacks. I would that I knew what the mechanism was behind this hypothesis...) At least I don't think I fell prey to that with my papers in college (other than horror that I'd let the professors' expectations down, even if they didn't know they were disappointed. Not expecting perfection makes no sense; why would anyone WANT someone to be defiled with imperfection...?).

    But I dare not abjure ANY of efficacy OR aesthetics OR philosophy. Whether or not the players or the game designers accept it, no game ought to be regarded in a fashion different from any other milieu; reality cannot be cut into pieces, nor the jurisdictions of good and evil. We're not supposed to escape ANYTHING. I'm not going to content myself with just something as frivolous as self-enjoyment; that's not enough for any endeavor to be justified. Ultimately, I can't let myself be swayed by any bias, whether my own or the metagame's. I'm trying for omniadaptation, something that will effective no matter WHAT the metagame looks like. The metagame is just the concrete; I want to solve for the infinite abstract. I must be a perfect machine of all the infinite virtues, else I am monstrously neglecting something.

    (Yes, I'm feeling THAT piqued/frustrated/depressed/etc.--and it's the sort of thing that's literally decades old on me. Why does humanity seem determined to condemn the very concept of perfection, of the abolition of error?! PERFECTION IS SUPERIOR TO HAPPINESS; IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO ABOLISH DISMAY THAN TO SUMMON HAPPINESS! Just by getting involved in the game--or anything else in the cosmos--one is beholden to an oath to greatly improve it, and I *will* follow through on that implicit oath...)
    As someone with Asperger's, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with that - you're using something that you do as a baseline for other people with the same condition, and as someone who is also partaking in a Health and Social Care course at college which, at the moment, is basing its teachings around discrimination and assumptions, I must insist that, although I'm sure you know a lot about the condition, you consider reviewing your thoughts on others with it. But this is a conversation for somewhere else - not a section on competitive battling.

    Everybody here is giving you advice on your team that is going to help it, while at the same time recognising your wishes and desires, but if you're just going to not even consider them as a possibility, then there's not much point in people helping, or you even asking at all. I'm not entirely sure why you're mentioning philosophy at all, to be honest - this is a thread about competitive battling, where people are trying to help you, you're the only one mentioning philosophy at all. It's a game - no philosophy or deep thinking required.

    I fear that this thread has been derailed, and I will be taking no further part in it - I thought this was going to be a normal team rating thread, not a discussion about philosophy or disorders. Apologies for mini-modding, but topics like that don't really belong here.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Minelayer team machination

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyknightXi View Post
    {rueful chuckle} This always seems to happen with me...Critiquing, even when I ask for it, keeps sounding like a condemnation of my philosophy, thought patterns, etc. But no matter what, I can't sense within myself any voids where the proper elements of psyche would fit. If I were that gravely wrong, I ought to be able to sense precisely that mental void where the correct information belongs! (On another forum, after I mentioned my Asperger's Syndrome, someone else said that it probably rendered the critiquing effort there untenable because, in their experience, Aspergerites INHERENTLY interpreted disagreements as personal attacks. I would that I knew what the mechanism was behind this hypothesis...) At least I don't think I fell prey to that with my papers in college (other than horror that I'd let the professors' expectations down, even if they didn't know they were disappointed. Not expecting perfection makes no sense; why would anyone WANT someone to be defiled with imperfection...?).

    But I dare not abjure ANY of efficacy OR aesthetics OR philosophy. Whether or not the players or the game designers accept it, no game ought to be regarded in a fashion different from any other milieu; reality cannot be cut into pieces, nor the jurisdictions of good and evil. We're not supposed to escape ANYTHING. I'm not going to content myself with just something as frivolous as self-enjoyment; that's not enough for any endeavor to be justified. Ultimately, I can't let myself be swayed by any bias, whether my own or the metagame's. I'm trying for omniadaptation, something that will effective no matter WHAT the metagame looks like. The metagame is just the concrete; I want to solve for the infinite abstract. I must be a perfect machine of all the infinite virtues, else I am monstrously neglecting something.

    (Yes, I'm feeling THAT piqued/frustrated/depressed/etc.--and it's the sort of thing that's literally decades old on me. Why does humanity seem determined to condemn the very concept of perfection, of the abolition of error?! PERFECTION IS SUPERIOR TO HAPPINESS; IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO ABOLISH DISMAY THAN TO SUMMON HAPPINESS! Just by getting involved in the game--or anything else in the cosmos--one is beholden to an oath to greatly improve it, and I *will* follow through on that implicit oath...)
    stop it. just stop it.

    The Metagame is not concrete, paradigms will shift as attempts at balance are made.

    Remember how Dragonite was basically a utility until Nintendo brought Marvel Scale out for him? Suddenly, with Garchomp banned, Dragonite is looking really good as a core and a utility for Gen V. And Garchomp fans probably moaned and raised torches a bit, but ultimately, they dealt with it.

    The biggest problem I see with this team is its vulnerability to Heatran. Since you are worried about covering all types, you should immediately drop that response and instead adopt to counter the current metagame - philosophy behind this is such - when metagame changes, you change to accommodate it. Hoping that the metagame will accommodate your team is like telling stupid people to breed smarter children.

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