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  1. #1
    Prayers to Oak Creek Angad's Avatar
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    Default General Discussion

    This is the spot where if things go if they have no other location. This isn't a team rating thread, but talking about certain Pokemon and wondering things. This is also the place to post and discuss new aspects introduced into competitive battling.

    Conversation Starter: Espeon, Celebi, and Gastrodon all moved to OU, which was generally expected.

    Blastoise, Cresselia, Umbreon, Rhyperior, Stoutland, and Golurk jump from RU to UU, which looks to shake up the RU metagame for sure, and Machamp (NO! FUCK YOU, COCKELDERP), Porygon2, Hippowdon (Holy Shit, every tier will now have sand, this single most important Pokemon to come to UU), Whimisicott (Called it), Darmanitian (A little surprising, a little expected), Chandelure (This Gen's Electivire as long as it doesn't have Shadow Tag), and Tornadus (First time a Djinn has been in UU) have all fallen from OU from UU, who all have the potential to change the face of UU as we know it.

    Charizard(Needs to be in NU already), Victreebel, Tangrowth, and Sawsbuck have dropped into RU, who have all been severely affected by the banned of Drought in UU.

    Much love to Zurr

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    Rocking the Lucario Thundagere's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Actually, used a GOlurk in OU for a time. It really worked well, because of it's sheer power and Ghost typing, it worked as a spin blocker and took a chunk out of any switch ins. I can definitely see it making issues in the new metagame.

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  3. #3
    追放されたバカ
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Okay, Tornadus and Chandelure being dropped to UU took me by surprise. I thought everybody would be using Chandelure, and I'm just surprised that Tornadus isn't used more than it is. Sawsbuck, too - I used one on a Drought team with massive effect. I thought Whimsicott would be dropped, too. It's a shame its usage has just been dropping since the beginning - I remember when they were everywhere.

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    Registered User Lord Clowncrete's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Feferi Peixes View Post
    Okay, Tornadus and Chandelure being dropped to UU took me by surprise. I thought everybody would be using Chandelure, and I'm just surprised that Tornadus isn't used more than it is. Sawsbuck, too - I used one on a Drought team with massive effect. I thought Whimsicott would be dropped, too. It's a shame its usage has just been dropping since the beginning - I remember when they were everywhere.
    Even though I am a fan of Chandelure, apart from that 145 base spatk, it doesn't really have much going for it.


    So have you guys checked out this thread.

    I'm surprised to see some nominations like Volcarona. I agree that It has the best set up move but Its coverage is bad, sr screws it up, just phaze it out with something like Gyarados, use Azumarill, etc.

    And I definitely think weather is centralizing the metagame. A non-weather team stands no chance in this metagame at all.

    Edit:I so agree with what one of the posters said:

    Last edited by Lord Clowncrete; 5th October 2011 at 07:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

  5. #5
    Flower Power Troggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Yeah, the feeling I get looking at some of these tier changes is that a couple of things moved around, but OU is just as bad as it has been. I haven't played since Garchomp was banned. I had a non-weather team and it stands no chance right now.
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    Registered User Lord Clowncrete's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    What I cannot understand is why smogon is trying to evade complex bans. I understand that complex bans make team building tougher especially for people new to competitive battling, but bans like baton pass + magic bounce are more logical and definitely better than banning espeon or baton pass, neither of them being broken.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

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    Flower Power Troggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    This is new territory, I think that's the main setback. The tiers have never been this complicated, and unfortunately it will probably only get worse in the future. On the subject of tiers...I was hoping I could get some opinions on something.

    Last generation I did a match with someone where we only allowed the worst fully-evolved Pokemon in the game. I got a kick out of it, and I would like to try it again. Some Pokemon that were in it last gen got enough upgrade to move out, but I have expanded the scope a bit to include some Pokemon that may be useable in certain situations, but almost never are. What I'm going for is:

    1) Enough parity between the worst of the worst and the top couple of Pokes to have a reasonable tier
    2) Type matchups that won't lead to one thing being the obvious choice to use

    Here's my draft list:


    I'm not allowing NFE Pokes because that would get out of hand quickly due to eviolite. Any additions or subtractions are welcome :)
    Last edited by Troggy; 5th October 2011 at 10:49 AM.
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    Registered User Lord Clowncrete's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Troggy View Post
    This is new territory, I think that's the main setback. The tiers have never been this complicated, and unfortunately it will probably only get worse in the future. On the subject of tiers...I was hoping I could get some opinions on something.

    Last generation I did a match with someone where we only allowed the worst fully-evolved Pokemon in the game. I got a kick out of it, and I would like to try it again. Some Pokemon that were in it last gen got enough upgrade to move out, but I have expanded the scope a bit to include some Pokemon that may be useable in certain situations, but almost never are. What I'm going for is:

    1) Enough parity between the worst of the worst and the top couple of Pokes to have a reasonable tier
    2) Type matchups that won't lead to one thing being the obvious choice to use

    Here's my draft list:


    I'm not allowing NFE Pokes because that would get out of hand quickly due to eviolite. Any additions or subtractions are welcome :)
    I think you forgot pidgeot and arbok.
    Also, onix is a NFE.
    This sorta reminds me of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

  9. #9
    Flower Power Troggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Clowncrete View Post
    I think you forgot pidgeot and arbok.
    Also, onix is a NFE.
    This sorta reminds me of this.
    Oh yeah...I forgot about that thread. Same idea, it just came back to me because the main tiers are pretty unplayable right now. I think I'll keep Onix even though he is breaking my rule because he is different from his evolution and started out as a Pokemon that was stand-alone. Also, he is terrible...but is a good counter to the zillion normal and normal flying types that are in this tier.

    I think Arbok is playable now, Pidgeot could probably be added. Looking at that other thread I should probably include Watchog and Cherrim. Not sure about Girafarig.

    I see that Plusle/Minun were banned from the other tier, I assume it's because of Nasty Plot + Baton Pass. I guess you learn those things via testing.

    I think if Baton Pass turned out to be too good...it could just be banned.
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    Registered User Lord Clowncrete's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Troggy View Post
    Oh yeah...I forgot about that thread. Same idea, it just came back to me because the main tiers are pretty unplayable right now. I think I'll keep Onix even though he is breaking my rule because he is different from his evolution and started out as a Pokemon that was stand-alone. Also, he is terrible...but is a good counter to the zillion normal and normal flying types that are in this tier.

    I think Arbok is playable now, Pidgeot could probably be added. Looking at that other thread I should probably include Watchog and Cherrim. Not sure about Girafarig.

    I see that Plusle/Minun were banned from the other tier, I assume it's because of Nasty Plot + Baton Pass. I guess you learn those things via testing.

    I think if Baton Pass turned out to be too good...it could just be banned.
    Dunsparce would become the jirachi of this tier. maybe even broken since i don't see a decent fighting type here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

  11. #11
    Flower Power Troggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Clowncrete View Post
    Dunsparce would become the jirachi of this tier. maybe even broken since i don't see a decent fighting type here.
    Yeah, I love Dunsparce though xD

    He could definitely be trolling, but his defenses aren't that good and he doesn't have nearly as much power as something like Jirachi. I didn't see any Fighting types that would be bad enough to hang around this crew...did I miss any?

    I can put Dunsparce on the questionable list.
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    EV-Wizard/PeculiarBattler League's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Clowncrete View Post
    What I cannot understand is why smogon is trying to evade complex bans. I understand that complex bans make team building tougher especially for people new to competitive battling, but bans like baton pass + magic bounce are more logical and definitely better than banning espeon or baton pass, neither of them being broken.
    I actually don't like complex bans, and prefer the banning of individual pokemon or items. (As far as items go, that would be Focus Band, and Soul Dew.) I don't like that they outright ban various combination of pokemon on some teams. (Drizzle + Swift Swim.)

    Maybe they should make an OU+ tier, with things like Kyogre being banned, but things like Ttar, Politoed, etc. present. (Blaziken could be there?)

    Other than that, they could make "point limits" : Tyranitar could have 3 sand points, for example, and Garchomp would also have 3 sand points. Excadrill and Hippowdon would have 2. Your team as a whole couldn't exceed 5 sand points.
    Feel free(r) to discuss Battle Strategy with me--I'll discuss anything really.

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    ._. Synthesis's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Well, FUCK. Hippowdon in UU is an absolute disgrace. It's going to be the bane of my existence, along with EvioSeed, Gligar, Stoutland and co. I'm really annoyed with UU right now.

  14. #14
    Prayers to Oak Creek Angad's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    To be fair, it's usually best to avoid complex bans, because when would you stop?

    Much love to Zurr

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    Registered User Teravolt71's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Discussion

    Darmanitan in UU, really? That probably won`t last long, it`s way too powerful. I predict it will eventually go to BL or back to OU.

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