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  1. #181
    now's the time to shine coolking503's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    Prizes aren't hard to get. TO get a shiny it takes like 5-10 minutes of RNGing and to get a good iv'd shiny it takes a couple hours. I would donate stuff I have bred but I don't have wifi any more.
    If we are having a battle and I disconnect, it is 100% unintentional; my power goes off often and each time my modem resets.

    Gone until Aug, 10 or something for a trip w/out net access. C u after that. If I suddenly dissapear after that you can bet I got bad grades on my IGCSE's, since results are coming out the week afterwards.

  2. #182
    Banana eating Gengar GengarEatBanana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    The tournament idea would certainly attract attention, as would an anouncment on Bulbanews.

    We have to realistic here though, as we can't really have an Uber allowed tournament. If that happened it would be just that: An Uber tournament. People would want to win, and therefore would go for the best Pokemon, Ubers.

    I'm not saying all Ubers would be banned. Salamence and Garchomp would be fine as they aren't too overpowered this generation as compared to last. However top tiers like Kyogre and Mewtwo shouldn't be allowed to run rampent all over this tournament.

    Thanks, and btw I would totally join this tournament :)
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  3. #183
    now's the time to shine coolking503's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    Well, month one on our server would be an Uber metagame, and tons of people play the Uber metagame as it is. So why not have one?
    If we are having a battle and I disconnect, it is 100% unintentional; my power goes off often and each time my modem resets.

    Gone until Aug, 10 or something for a trip w/out net access. C u after that. If I suddenly dissapear after that you can bet I got bad grades on my IGCSE's, since results are coming out the week afterwards.

  4. #184
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    The tournament I was planning was standard OU. But perhaps I'll make a poll on a new thread and I'll let you decide
    “And as to you life, I reckon you are the leavings of many deaths, No doubt I have died myself ten thousand times before.”

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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    I agree with the Uber-tier (i.e. free-for-all) tournament. Standard OU would not push the Ubers up appropriately.
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

  6. #186
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    I don't think the Uber metagame is developed enough currently to hold a legitimate tournament
    “And as to you life, I reckon you are the leavings of many deaths, No doubt I have died myself ten thousand times before.”

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  7. #187
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    Quote Originally Posted by DCM View Post
    I don't think the Uber metagame is developed enough currently to hold a legitimate tournament
    I agree with this, I think OU with Smogon Tiers should work.

    Much love to Zurr

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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    Quote Originally Posted by DCM View Post
    I don't think the Uber metagame is developed enough currently to hold a legitimate tournament
    But then maybe the tournament shouldn't be legitimate...? Or at least not legitimate enough to merit any significant prizes.

    Otherwise, we'll have all the "Ubers" stuck in Tier 4. (And before anyone says anything, having everything start at the top would not solve this problem, as the "Ubers" would get pushed down to Tier 6 instead.)

    *edit* Also, what's this about a "developed metagame"? I thought we wanted to develop our own "metagame" from scratch. Isn't that the purpose of this new tiering system?

    Quote Originally Posted by GengarEatBanana
    We have to realistic here though, as we can't really have an Uber allowed tournament. If that happened it would be just that: An Uber tournament. People would want to win, and therefore would go for the best Pokemon, Ubers.
    That was sort of the point

    When everything is in the same tier, you can't really "ban" anything. The point of having this free-for-all tournament is to make the Ubers overused so that they get put in their place.

    At least that's the way I see it.

    Also, remember the original point of this system:

    Quote Originally Posted by evkl
    Why? Because Smogon is solely concerned with removing what makes for a playable metagame. This will be concerned with removing what makes a highly concentrated metagame. The net effect of the Bulbagarden Tier system will be a more spread-out, "open" metagame driving more innovation and more fun.
    The point of our tier system is to promote variety and openness, and try to balance usage instead of playability. By balancing usage, we're trying to make the metagame more dynamic, and less of a "oh, here we'll use this, and there we'll use that" kind of deal.
    Last edited by Zekurom; 8th April 2011 at 04:08 PM.
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

  9. #189
    Banana eating Gengar GengarEatBanana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    All your points have been good, but this is a tournament. We are actually giving away prizes here. Don't you want to give the prizes to someone who actually deserves it then someone who just filled a team with six Ubers?

    I know this system is all about promoting openess and trying to balance usage, but couldn't that come later? Couldn't this tournament just be a bit of an introduction to get people to realize about this tiering system? We don't have to rush into this remember.
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    Quote Originally Posted by GengarEatBanana View Post
    All your points have been good, but this is a tournament. We are actually giving away prizes here. Don't you want to give the prizes to someone who actually deserves it then someone who just filled a team with six Ubers?
    There's strategy in Uber usage too, remember. There's a Youtube video somewhere of a guy who defeated an entire Uber team using a single level 100 Magikarp.

    If this is going to be a huge tournament with substantial prizes, I'd actually suggest not using our tier system for that, because it's so underdeveloped at this point. Save it for next year.

    I know this system is all about promoting openess and trying to balance usage, but couldn't that come later? Couldn't this tournament just be a bit of an introduction to get people to realize about this tiering system? We don't have to rush into this remember.
    Well, without a developed tiering system to show for it, I doubt it'll be much good publicity...
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

  11. #191
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    I won't argue as you have valid points, but just keep what I've said in mind.

    How long till this tournament anyway?
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    Quote Originally Posted by GengarEatBanana View Post
    I won't argue as you have valid points, but just keep what I've said in mind.
    Sure thing.

    How long till this tournament anyway?
    No idea. You'd have to ask DCM or whoever's organizing it. I only manage the tier system, nothing else.
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

  13. #193
    now's the time to shine coolking503's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    People act like Ubers isn't a tier for anyone outside of people who don't understand compeitive battling. Its not. There is so much strategy you wouldn't believe it. There are more pokemon allowed than in OU, and as such there are more strategies and viable pokemon. The inclusion of overpowered legionaries generally balances out.
    If we are having a battle and I disconnect, it is 100% unintentional; my power goes off often and each time my modem resets.

    Gone until Aug, 10 or something for a trip w/out net access. C u after that. If I suddenly dissapear after that you can bet I got bad grades on my IGCSE's, since results are coming out the week afterwards.

  14. #194
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    Quote Originally Posted by coolking503 View Post
    People act like Ubers isn't a tier for anyone outside of people who don't understand competitive battling. Its not. There is so much strategy you wouldn't believe it. There are more pokemon allowed than in OU, and as such there are more strategies and viable pokemon. The inclusion of overpowered legionaries generally balances out.
    And this is exactly why having a "banlist" embedded into an algorithm is a bad idea. Ubers (Tier 7) is only a guideline as to what would be severely overused to the point of being a dominant strategy, and therefore, should be "banned" from most tournaments that are trying to promote variety. But that doesn't mean that it should be banned in all cases.

    That would be like saying that any chess players with a rating of 2400 and above are exempted from the game forever.
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

  15. #195
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    Default Re: Our own tiering system: Empirical Tiers

    I think that any and all official Bulbagarden tournaments should stick to established metagames for the time being. We should, however, be able to have as many unofficial, testing tournaments as we want.

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