Thread: Venusaur vs Torterra

Torterra and its bonsai tree was love at the first sight ♥. Its better design and overall usefullness overshadows Venusaur in my opinion. I also like Venusaur, but it's kinda ugly for real (but it still looks cool, weird).

Torterra's best moves- Earthquake, Wood Hammer, Grass Knot, Frenzy Plant.

Venusaur's best moves- Sludge Bomb, Frenzy Plant, Grass Knot, Power Whip.

Bold=STAB

Now, most people consider these two tank/sweeper pokemon so if I had to train them I would train their EVs for SP. Def, Sp. Attack, HP. I would use those EVs because all their attacks are considered Special Attacks. Most of their weaknesses fall are attacks that are Special Attacks so raise their Special Defense to make them be able to tank and withstand more attacks. Then HP because tanks need a decent amount of HP.

Venasaur's Stats with EVs of Sp. Atk, Sp. Def, HP at lvl 100
HP- 364
Attack- 152
Defense- 153
Sp. Atk- 328
Sp. Def- 328
Speed- 148

Torterra's Stats with EVs of Sp. Atk, Sp. Def, HP at lvl 100
HP- 394
Attack- 200
Defense- 293
Sp. Atk- 273
Sp. Def- 295
Speed- 105

Bold=Better Stat

Well, its hard to say which pokemon is better based on attacks because both of them can learn Frenzy Plant and Grass knot with is .5 of their attacks plus they both get STAB. Wood Hammer tends to be a great attack with Torterra because of a good Attack stat. Earthquake is an alright attack because of the lack of Sp. Atk. Venusaur also has Frenzy Plant and Grass Knot so no big deal there but they do have STAB. It has Sludge Bomb is alright because it has STAB but Venusaur has a lower Attack. Venusaur also has Power Whip which is a great attacks since it gets both STAB and Venusaur has a great Sp. Atk.

I pick Venusaur as the overall winner, but I do agree Torterra looks better. I wish we could cross breed them and get the ultimate Grass Type pokemon =)

Originally Posted by Derier44

Torterra's best moves- Earthquake, Wood Hammer, Grass Knot, Frenzy Plant.

Venusaur's best moves- Sludge Bomb, Frenzy Plant, Grass Knot, Power Whip.

Bold=STAB

Now, most people consider these two tank/sweeper pokemon so if I had to train them I would train their EVs for SP. Def, Sp. Attack, HP. I would use those EVs because all their attacks are considered Special Attacks. Most of their weaknesses fall are attacks that are Special Attacks so raise their Special Defense to make them be able to tank and withstand more attacks. Then HP because tanks need a decent amount of HP.

Venasaur's Stats with EVs of Sp. Atk, Sp. Def, HP at lvl 100
HP- 364
Attack- 152
Defense- 153
Sp. Atk- 328
Sp. Def- 328
Speed- 148

Torterra's Stats with EVs of Sp. Atk, Sp. Def, HP at lvl 100
HP- 394
Attack- 200
Defense- 293
Sp. Atk- 273
Sp. Def- 295
Speed- 105

Bold=Better Stat

Well, its hard to say which pokemon is better based on attacks because both of them can learn Frenzy Plant and Grass knot with is .5 of their attacks plus they both get STAB. Wood Hammer tends to be a great attack with Torterra because of a good Attack stat. Earthquake is an alright attack because of the lack of Sp. Atk. Venusaur also has Frenzy Plant and Grass Knot so no big deal there but they do have STAB. It has Sludge Bomb is alright because it has STAB but Venusaur has a lower Attack. Venusaur also has Power Whip which is a great attacks since it gets both STAB and Venusaur has a great Sp. Atk.

I pick Venusaur as the overall winner, but I do agree Torterra looks better. I wish we could cross breed them and get the ultimate Grass Type pokemon =)

You were on the right track, but you went about it all wrong. Let's start with Sludge Bomb being a Special Attack and Power Whip being a Physical Attack. You seem to have mixed the two up.

Now, I can see where your train of thought is coming from but let's take a different approach, shall we?

Let's look at Venusaur's stats:

HP- 80
Atk- 82
Def- 83
Sp. Atk- 100
Sp. Def- 100
Spe- 80

As you can see, Venusaur has decent stats all around the board with a very good Special Attack and Special Defense. His access to powerful physical moves such as Power Whip (the definitive physical Grass move) Earthquake, Outrage, Double Edge and Body Slam make up for it's lower physical attack. It also gets Swords Dance to bypass this problem. This means he can be a viable physical sweeper, a very good special sweeper (100 Sp. Atk. plus GK/Energy Ball/Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, Hidden Power, Sleep Powder), an awesome mix sweeper with a combination of PW/EQ/LS/SB/SP/etc (the 80 speed could be better but is hardly a bad stat), and a special tank with it's 80 HP, 100 Sp. Def and access to Leech Seed, Sleep Powder and Synthesis.

Venusaur has the stats and movepool to be all around versitile. It might not be the best at everything, but it can do just about anything

Now for Torterra:

HP- 95
Atk- 109
Def- 105
Sp. Atk- 75
Sp. Def- 85
Spe- 56

As you can clearly see, Torterra is nigh useless on the special side. Play to his strengths, as a physical tank or sweeper and you should be fine (let's face it, no Torterra is surviving a STAB Fire Blast from any fully evolved Pokemon, no matter how much Sp. Def you give it). As opposed to Venusaur, Torterra has great physical stats and a marvelous physical movepool (STAB Wood Hammer, STAB Earthquake, Stone Edge, Crunch) and it even has a way of boosting it's speed (Rock Polish) so after one turn of setup, it outruns most of the metagame. To top it all off, it too gets Swords Dance, which doubles that already high base attack. Play to it's strengths, not to it's weaknessess and Torterra is a fantastic Pokemon.

Torterra is a much bigger physical threat than Venusaur

Venusaur is a much bigger special threat than Torterra

It's up to you to decide which one is better. I go for Venusaur because it can counter other Grass types, doesn't have a nasty 4x weakness and is just so damn versitile that it's difficult to take down the bastard without knowing which set it's using first (which usually leads to one of your Pokemon getting killed or crippled in the process). Also, Sleep Powder is a bitch

True, but you must also remember that most people who battle competitively so EV train their pokemon plus their pokemon will be lvl 100. But all the same you are correct in the fact that Torterra is a better physical battler and Venusaur is a better special battler. But another thing to look at is STAB which can mean all the difference in a pokemon's attack. Plus, a pokemon can only learn up to four attacks so you really have to build on it's strong sides.

Torterra's Best Battling Attacks- Wood Hammer, Crunch, Earthquake, Rock polish

Venusaur's Best Battling Attacks- Frenzy Plant, Sleep Powder, Power Whip, Sludge Bomb.

Now, these attacks to me seem like the best choice for both pokemon going towards their strengh's.

Frenzy plant sucks, just saying. It doesn't have perfect accuracy, and makes you waste a turn. If anything, you are better off using Grass Knot/Wood Hammer/Power Whip twice without locking yourself in.

Originally Posted by Derier44

True, but you must also remember that most people who battle competitively so EV train their pokemon plus their pokemon will be lvl 100. But all the same you are correct in the fact that Torterra is a better physical battler and Venusaur is a better special battler. But another thing to look at is STAB which can mean all the difference in a pokemon's attack. Plus, a pokemon can only learn up to four attacks so you really have to build on it's strong sides.

Torterra's Best Battling Attacks- Wood Hammer, Crunch, Earthquake, Rock polish, Stone Edge, Swords Dance, Leech Seed, Outrage

Venusaur's Best Battling Attacks- Grass Knot/Energy Ball/Leaf Storm, Sleep Powder, Power Whip, Sludge Bomb, Leech Seed, Synthesis, Earthquake, Hidden Power, Outrage, Double Edge.

Now, these attacks to me seem like the best choice for both pokemon going towards their strengh's.

Fixed it for you


Also, one must keep in mind is that in competitive battling, one Pokemon can fill many roles, each of which requires a different moveset and EV spread than the other. Therefore having more options to choose from for your four attacks is a very important part of competitive battling. Take a look at Pokemon such as Celebi, Mew, Salamence, Infernape and Tyranitar. All of them are excellent Pokemon partly because of their stats, but mostly because of their sheer versatility. In this regard, Venusaur is clearly the better option.

That said, if what you want is a straight up physical attacker (not a versatile Poke), the better choice is Torterra.

Also, LizardMan is correct. Frenzy Plant (along with Blast Burn, Hydro Cannon, Roar of Time, Hyper Beam and Giga Impact) is a horrible move to use competitively

The choice of moves such as Leaf Storm/Energy Ball/Grass Knot/Power Whip or Wood Hammer/Seed Bomb depends greatly on what the particular Pokemon's set is supposed to accomplish. Leaf Storm is great for choice sets (Choice Specs/Choice Scarf) as their hit and run nature offsets the Special Attack drop. Energy Ball is probably the most reliable STAB attack Venusaur has (the possible Sp. Def drop being an added bonus), Grass Knot hits heavier Pokemon harder (thus making it a great choice for the OU tier but mediocre for UU) and Power Whip is to hit from the physical side.

Torterra will hit harder with Wood Hammer (and is in fact usually the better choice) but won't get recoil from Seed Bomb (if that is offputting to you.)

Even though these Pokemon only have a 4 moveslot limit, all of the moves I listed for them are viable and deserve consideration. Notice how I didn't put crap like Bite or Razor Leaf in there.

That's a hard decision. I like Venusaur's looks, and Torterra's type combination is awesome. Still, I'd have to pick Venusaur, he's just awesome all around.

Envoy, if you had to pick 4 attacks for Torterra and Venusaur which ones would you pick?

Lizardman~If you say it sucks because it has low accuracy means that you haven't read what we are saying. It is a great choice for Venusaur because of it's Sp. Atk and the power on it is great as well. And if you say an attack with 120 power and 90% accuracy sucks then you must be stupid. I didn't say it was best for competitive battling I just said it was a good battling move in general. Would I use it in Game Battles or the IPGL, no. Would I use it in game for the Elite 4 or a battle against my friends, sure why not. You also have to use it with the right pokemon, Venusaur is probably the best to use it with because of Sp. Atk, STAB, attack power, and if you use it on a rock, ground, or water type it will kick ass.

Originally Posted by Derier44

Envoy, if you had to pick 4 attacks for Torterra and Venusaur which ones would you pick?

Lizardman~If you say it sucks because it has low accuracy means that you haven't read what we are saying. It is a great choice for Venusaur because of it's Sp. Atk and the power on it is great as well. And if you say an attack with 120 power and 90% accuracy sucks then you must be stupid. I didn't say it was best for competitive battling I just said it was a good battling move in general. Would I use it in Game Battles or the IPGL, no. Would I use it in game for the Elite 4 or a battle against my friends, sure why not. You also have to use it with the right pokemon, Venusaur is probably the best to use it with because of Sp. Atk, STAB, attack power, and if you use it on a rock, ground, or water type it will kick ass.

The recharge turn is still a bitch, even in-game. Personally, I'd rather still use Energy Ball over Frenzy Plant. With a high enough level, it will OHKO everything it needs to anyway. And there aren't any drawbacks to the move.

As to what moves I'd use on them, well keep in mind that this is not representative of the Pokemon themselves but rather of my personal tastes. I see Venusaur as a defensive tank and Torterra as a sweeper. This does not in any way, shape, form or capacity mean that the following are their best sets. These are just the ones I've had the best experience with:

Venusaur@Leftovers
Nature: Calm
EV's: 252 HP/6 SP. Atk/252 Sp. Def

-Energy Ball/Grass Knot
-Sludge Bomb
-Leech Seed
-Sleep Powder

The standard defensive set allows Venusaur to take non-super effective hits from the special side all day long. Energy Ball/GK is for STAB. Use the former in the UU tier where the threats are generally lighter but the latter hits harder in the OU tier what with stuff like Tyranitar, Gyarados, Flygon and Mamoswine running around. Sludge Bomb is a good secondary STAB and can take out Grass types that otherwise wall this set. Sleep Powder cripples an opponent (can even check counters) and Leech Seed helps with survivability and can turn some 2HKO's into OHKO's. Because of the switch-happy nature of the last two moves, this set has great synergy with entry hazards like TSpikes, Spikes and the quintessential Stealth Rocks. This Venusaur is a team player and rather than KO stuff itself, it's job is to cripple your opponent's Pokemon as much as possible so that an ally can then come in and sweep the team on it's own.

Torterra@Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spe

-Rock Polish
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Woood Hammer

The Rock Polish set is my favorite Torterra set. Come in on a resisted attack (Ground, Rock, Electric, etc), Rock Polish on the switch, and proceed to sweep. Very few Pokemon can outspeed a +2 Torterra once it gets started (without a Choice Scarf of course) and those that can are too frail to survive it's attacks. It can 2HKO most of the UU tier and a good chunk of the OU tier. Earthquake and Wood Hammer are for STAB and provide excellent coverage together. Stone Edge can be used in tandem with them to optimize coverage. It also has the advantage of hitting all of Torterra's weaknessess (Fire, Ice, Flying, Bug) for super effective damage.


I reiterate, those are just my favorite sets for these Pokemon. They are in no way the decidedly best sets for them. Again, it all depends on what your team needs and what the Pokemon can provide. Sweeping Venusaur (physical/special/mixed) or (physically) defensive Torterra are just as viable on other teams. Just not the ones I use them on

Torterra, 'cause he makes a good tank. He also looks better, and is awesome despite being owned by Ash.

theyre both...very simmiler

I gotta give it to Venasaur though, Special Grass Knot kills Tortera's massiveness, and if that doesn't work, he's got Sludge bomb to poison him


side note, since when did grass resist ground?

Originally Posted by Lt.

side note, since when did grass resist ground?

Since always. Yes, even since back in Gen I. Problem was that back then, the only non Grass/Poison Pokemon were Tangela (which sucked) and Exeggcutor. So mostly, you'd be using Grassers with a neutrality to Ground (because Poison is weak to it). It's actually one of the Grass types greatest niches. The only other types that Ground can't touch are Bug and Flying (who has an inmunity). Everything else gets hit either neutrally or Super effectively by the type.

Off Topic:Well, I wouldn't either use them as a tank. Most likely I would use Vaporeon.

Vaporeon~Adament nature, Leftovers, 252-Sp. Def 252-Defense 6-Sp.Atk
Acid Armor
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Substitute

Venusaur is pretty raw, but Torterra is cooler in my opinion. Not by stats or anything, just by looks. To me they look related, like if Bulbasaur had a new male evolution he'd turn into torterra. I just love the idea of a giant ankylosaur turtle pokemon that can split the earth around you and you can ride on the mountain or the fung shwe tree when you wanna get somewhere.

What is Venusaur even supposed to be?

......Dinosaur