Venusaur vs Torterra

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Originally Posted by WhiteFlare

1. First of all nearly all the moves that you've mentioned aren't Venusaur's movepool. They are TMs that it's able to learn and you can't just point out a Japanese Bulbasaur event because it isn't compatible for other versions so it won't be fair for Torterra.

2. It isn't really considered to be an original movepool. More like a breeding movepool which is different because it cannot learn them itself.

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What kind of logic is this? A pokemon's move pool isn't restricted to what they learn by level up. It encompasses every move that they learn, by TM, breeding, tutor, etc. I think you're the only person I've ever seen who considers a Pokemon's movepool to be restricted to level up only.

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Originally Posted by Saiga

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Originally Posted by WhiteFlare

1. First of all nearly all the moves that you've mentioned aren't Venusaur's movepool. They are TMs that it's able to learn and you can't just point out a Japanese Bulbasaur event because it isn't compatible for other versions so it won't be fair for Torterra.

2. It isn't really considered to be an original movepool. More like a breeding movepool which is different because it cannot learn them itself.

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What kind of logic is this? A pokemon's move pool isn't restricted to what they learn by level up. It encompasses every move that they learn, by TM, breeding, tutor, etc. I think you're the only person I've ever seen who considers a Pokemon's movepool to be restricted to level up only.

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You've clearly misunderstood me. I didn't say that Pokemon is restricted to level up moves. I know that it matters on TMs, breeding and tutoring. I just stated that these moves are not moves that Venusaur learns. All I said was that Torterra has a better movepool and I mean the LEVELLING UP movepool, so you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by WhiteFlare

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Originally Posted by Saiga

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Originally Posted by WhiteFlare

1. First of all nearly all the moves that you've mentioned aren't Venusaur's movepool. They are TMs that it's able to learn and you can't just point out a Japanese Bulbasaur event because it isn't compatible for other versions so it won't be fair for Torterra.

2. It isn't really considered to be an original movepool. More like a breeding movepool which is different because it cannot learn them itself.

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What kind of logic is this? A pokemon's move pool isn't restricted to what they learn by level up. It encompasses every move that they learn, by TM, breeding, tutor, etc. I think you're the only person I've ever seen who considers a Pokemon's movepool to be restricted to level up only.

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You've clearly misunderstood me. I didn't say that Pokemon is restricted to level up moves. I know that it matters on TMs, breeding and tutoring. I just stated that these moves are not moves that Venusaur learns. All I said was that Torterra has a better movepool and I mean the LEVELING UP movepool, so you're wrong.

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How am I wrong? Venusaur still learns them, just not from level up. In your original post, all you said was movepool. It's natural that from this people would assume you meant... movepool. Not level up only moves. And frankly, the distinction means nothing. It really doesn't matter where a Pokemon gets their moves from as long as they get the moves. Venusaur's movepool is far superior to Torterra.

Venusaur still gets Sleep Powder via level up, and let's face it, that alone makes all the difference.

Of course, Growth and Synthesis certainly don't hurt any.

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Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer

Venusaur still gets Sleep Powder via level up, and let's face it, that alone makes all the difference.

Well yes that's a good part of it's levelling up movepool. But still Torterra has Wood Hammer, Earthquake and Crunch.

Of course, Growth and Synthesis certainly don't hurt any.

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Originally Posted by Saiga

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Originally Posted by WhiteFlare

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Originally Posted by Saiga

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Originally Posted by WhiteFlare

1. First of all nearly all the moves that you've mentioned aren't Venusaur's movepool. They are TMs that it's able to learn and you can't just point out a Japanese Bulbasaur event because it isn't compatible for other versions so it won't be fair for Torterra.

2. It isn't really considered to be an original movepool. More like a breeding movepool which is different because it cannot learn them itself.

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What kind of logic is this? A pokemon's move pool isn't restricted to what they learn by level up. It encompasses every move that they learn, by TM, breeding, tutor, etc. I think you're the only person I've ever seen who considers a Pokemon's movepool to be restricted to level up only.

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You've clearly misunderstood me. I didn't say that Pokemon is restricted to level up moves. I know that it matters on TMs, breeding and tutoring. I just stated that these moves are not moves that Venusaur learns. All I said was that Torterra has a better movepool and I mean the LEVELING UP movepool, so you're wrong.

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How am I wrong? Venusaur still learns them, just not from level up. In your original post, all you said was movepool. It's natural that from this people would assume you meant... movepool. Not level up only moves. And frankly, the distinction means nothing. It really doesn't matter where a Pokemon gets their moves from as long as they get the moves. Venusaur's movepool is far superior to Torterra.

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1. Yes, Venusaur doesn't learn these moves from levelling up which I was actually saying all this time.

2. Nope, I did mention which one will be more useful, stats, looks and plus what more can you talk about them? Thats pretty much all you can say about them.

3. If you have read my posts carefully I said that I'm talking about the levelling up movepool only. So don't mention TMs, breeding and tutoring because it makes you sound like you haven't been reading my posts. I know that TMs, breeding and tutoring is important too.

4. Well that's your opinion. In my opinion Torterra has a better levelling up movepool cause of Wood Hammer, Earthquake, Crunch and Razor Leaf which would be more useful on Torterra than Venusaur to me.

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Originally Posted by WhiteFlare

Which one do you prefer? Torterra

Which is more useful? Both

Which one would win in a battle? Probably Venusaur if it has Grass Knot but if not then Torterra with Curse.

I vote Torterra because It has a way better movepool than Venusaur, especially Wood Hammer. Venusaur's sp.attack stat is good but it's movepool is quite weak and that won't be useful. Torterra has stronger moves than Venusaur. Venusaur's attack stat is not good and most of it's moves are physical. It has Petal Dance which is a strong sp.attack but has a side effect. I guess Solar Beam is the only move which is useful. Venusaur can't even learn Leaf Storm which it can only learn by breeding. That's a disappointment. But Venusaur is far better than Torterra in speed. In typing I guess Venusaur. In my opinion Torterra looks better than Venusaur. Venusaur just looks ugly to me.

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At no point did you mention specifically referring to the level up movepool.

May I ask, why is their level up movepool such a big deal? Any trainer worth his or her...anything will undoubtedly use Move Tutors and TM's, even if it's just for in-game purposes. Why the focus on their level up moves, which are only one fourth of their options?

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Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer

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Originally Posted by WhiteFlare

Which one do you prefer? Torterra

Which is more useful? Both

Which one would win in a battle? Probably Venusaur if it has Grass Knot but if not then Torterra with Curse.

I vote Torterra because It has a way better movepool than Venusaur, especially Wood Hammer. Venusaur's sp.attack stat is good but it's movepool is quite weak and that won't be useful. Torterra has stronger moves than Venusaur. Venusaur's attack stat is not good and most of it's moves are physical. It has Petal Dance which is a strong sp.attack but has a side effect. I guess Solar Beam is the only move which is useful. Venusaur can't even learn Leaf Storm which it can only learn by breeding. That's a disappointment. But Venusaur is far better than Torterra in speed. In typing I guess Venusaur. In my opinion Torterra looks better than Venusaur. Venusaur just looks ugly to me.

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At no point did you mention specifically referring to the level up movepool.

May I ask, why is their level up movepool such a big deal? Any trainer worth his or her...anything will undoubtedly use Move Tutors and TM's, even if it's just for in-game purposes. Why the focus on their level up moves, which are only one fourth of their options?

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I didn't say 'level up movepool' because if you've kept reading on you will notice it's the level up movepool. For example Wood Hammer, I'm sure that everyone will know that Wood Hammer is not a TM.

In my original post I mostly talked about their movepool but not because I think it's such a big deal but because im just showing how much better Torterra's own moves are than Venusaur's. I didn't really talk about breeding and tutoring moves because a Pokemon's original moveset is the levelling up one.

If you don't understand that then just imagine there were no such things as TMs, breeding and tutoring because then you'll notice that Torterra has a much more greater movepool than Venusaur. But of course it's an opinion so please don't argue, our opinions may differ.

Your problem is that it's a completely arbitrary distinction made for virtually no reason. It's almost like saying "Pokémon with A in their names have better names".

All you can gauge the level up moveset for is for in-game balancing convenience... and in-game, you really don't need many moves to begin with and it's mostly influenced by the game itself; it hardly says anything about the pokémon.

And even in that case, TMs would have a higher convenience than Level Up, as the later require heart scales to be remembered into usable movesets.


The only real point in differenciating where do the moves come from competitively would be breeding, as they can be excluyent of other moves. But that doesn't even apply here.

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Originally Posted by Infinity Mk-II

Your problem is that it's a completely arbitrary distinction made for virtually no reason. It's almost like saying "Pokémon with A in their names have better names".

All you can gauge the level up moveset for is for in-game balancing convenience... and in-game, you really don't need many moves to begin with and it's mostly influenced by the game itself; it hardly says anything about the pokémon.

And even in that case, TMs would have a higher convenience than Level Up, as the later require heart scales to be remembered into usable movesets.


The only real point in differenciating where do the moves come from competitively would be breeding, as they can be excluyent of other moves. But that doesn't even apply here.

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1. I have given my reasons in my post and as an opinion, which there was nothing wrong with. It looks to me you were being extent.

2. Here is a listing of some of the things that do say a lot about Pokemon: Stats, type, abilities, nature and movepool which does say a lot about because Pokemon wouldn't be the same without these things. How does a movepool not say a lot about Pokemon? It's one of the main things about a Pokemon. I didn't mention anything about the Pokemon games itself, so looks like you've misunderstood me or was saying something of the my post's topic.

3. Again you were being extent because I've only mentioned the level up movepool so don't mention TMs, breeding and tutoring. And nobody mentioned that TMs are more convenient than level up because it doesn't really matter which is more convenient. Why does that matter anyway? I would of mentioned TMs If wanted to in my post. I know Venusaur can learn good moves from TMs...

4. The topic is about Venusaur vs Torterra so logical explanations can apply here and my reasons were logical. Most of the things you've said looked like you didn't even understand my post properly and was nothing to do with my posts whatsoever. It also looked like it was off my post's topic.

OK, let's drop this argument here because it's going nowhere but round in circles.

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Originally Posted by Zeb

OK, let's drop this argument here because it's going nowhere but round in circles.

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Yes, I agree :)

I think one thing we can all agree on is, they're both ugly. Piplup is the cutest.

heck yeah hes the best!

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Originally Posted by rianex

I think one thing we can all agree on is, they're both ugly. Piplup is the cutest.

heck yeah hes the best!

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Major Dejavu.

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Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer

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Originally Posted by PrincessMio

I think one thing we can all agree on is, they're both ugly. Piplup is the cutest.

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I dunno what you're talking about. Venusaur is adorable:

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Let's add this now, though:

Hard choice. Torterra and Venusaur are my favorite Grass-type starters.
They are also among my favorite Pokémon.

That said, I've chosen Torterra, for two sole reasons: I like its design a bit more and because it is a Sinnoh starter.
I prefer Venusaur's typing by a mile, though. Poison > Ground any day for me.

Two of my favorites, let's just put them on a team together instead of making them fight. :)

If I had to choose it would be Venasaur though, close 2nd for Torterra. This one was really tough for me.