Meganium vs Serperior - Page 2

View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?

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  • Meganium

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Thread: Meganium vs Serperior

  1. #16
    Formerly GTT Grass Type Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Quote Originally Posted by Buizelfan View Post
    Who do you prefer? Jaroda. Meganium is ugly, weak, feminine and useless

    Is there something wrong with feminine Pokemon now?

    Who's more useful? Jaroda. Would make a good wall

    Here's a secret, Meganium makes a better wall. She has better defensive stats all accross the board. Offensive ones too, for that matter

    Who'd win in a fight? Jaroda. Same reason as before

    I don't get this. The two of them would easily tie. If anything, Meganium's better offensive stats and Jaroda's lack of recovery puts her at an advantage

    Who looks better? Meganium...just kidding, Jaroda again

    WINNER: JARODA!
    Comments in bold.
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  2. #17
    Registered User Buizelfan!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy View Post
    Comments in bold.
    Yes, it is wrong that Meganium looks feminine. This is a species of pokemon that is supposedly 87.5% male...

    How would Meganium tie with Jaroda? Jaroda has much better moves, Leaf storm, and Giga drain. Meganium only has Petal Dance which Jaroda resists anyway - so it won't faint and Meganium becomes confused. Also lets look at the TM's Jaroda...wow look, its aerial ace - a flying type move. Who is weak to flying type moves?...Meganium

    Lack of recovery? Giga Drain

    Meganium makes a better wall? Thats all Meganium is ever going to be. It is so slow that is has no chance of being a decent sweeper, while Jaroda, who is much faster can. In fact, Meganium would make a pathetic wall too, considering all of its weaknesses...

    who is the better pokemon? still and will always be, Jaroda

  3. #18
    Formerly GTT Grass Type Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Quote Originally Posted by Buizelfan View Post
    Yes, it is wrong that Meganium looks feminine. This is a species of pokemon that is supposedly 87.5% male...

    So, good to know that you have something against effeminete Pokemon. How's that ubermench thing working out for you? I really hope this doesn't translate into real life.

    How would Meganium tie with Jaroda? Jaroda has much better moves, Leaf storm, and Giga drain. Meganium only has Petal Dance which Jaroda resists anyway - so it won't faint and Meganium becomes confused. Also lets look at the TM's Jaroda...wow look, its aerial ace - a flying type move. Who is weak to flying type moves?...Meganium

    Meganium gets Energy Ball, Grass Knot and Leaf Storm too, you know. Check out her Egg moves, if you want. Oh, and do your research while your at it, yeah? She also resists Jaroda's Giga Drains and Leaf Storms.

    Oh wow, Jaroda get's a 60BP super effective move it can use against Meganium with it's pathetic 65 Attack stat. And it's not like Meganium can't just Synthesis away the damage done to her 100 Defense from that. Now she's scared. But wait, she gets the 70BP Hidden Power, which can be Fire, Ice, Poison, Bug or Flying? And she has a much better Sp. Atk than Jaroda at 82? Gee, I wonder how she'd ever be able to pull off a win there...

    As I said, the battle would probably be a draw, but even then, Meganium could still be seen to have an advantage.


    Lack of recovery? Giga Drain

    I said lack of reliable recovery. Pay attention, yeah? Giga Drain is NOT a reliable recovery because the amount of HP you regain is directly proportional to your opponent's typing and defensive stats. For example, against Meganium herself, Giga Drain would do shit because she resists it and has excellent defenses. This is true for Pokemon of seven different types (all the Grass resists) and any Pokemon with halfway decent defenses. Have I mentioned Jaroda's crappy attacking stats?

    Conversely, Meganium has both Leech Seed and Synthesis. Synthesis is reliable because the only way it won't heal half of her HP is if the extremely situational unfavorable weather happens. Even then, in favorable weather (sun), Meganium's Synthesis recovers even more, so it's not like she has an aversion to weather in general.


    Meganium makes a better wall? Thats all Meganium is ever going to be. It is so slow that is has no chance of being a decent sweeper, while Jaroda, who is much faster can. In fact, Meganium would make a pathetic wall too, considering all of its weaknesses...

    Again, please do your research before saying things like this, yeah? Meganium's speed is 80. That's not slow at all. There are plenty of slower or equal speed Pokemon that work very well as sweepers. Examples include (but are not limited to): Tyranitar, Metagross, Dragonite, Blaziken, Venusaur, Feraligatr, Daikenki, Empoleon, Torterra and Scizor.

    Jaroda may be faster, yes, but it's useful sweeping movepool consists of Leaf Storm, Hidden Power and Wring Out. Sorry, but I'd rather use Sceptile as a sweeper.

    And by the way, Meganium's weaknesses are the exact same as Jaroda's, so he's just as bad of a wall as she is. Which completley subverts your earlier comment of him being a good wall.

    Lastly, I'd like to say that Meganium ins't just 'good for walling'. She's a great team player, can heal status from her party, put up screens (much more effectively than Jaroda, because of her better defenses), protect her team from status, wall, subseed, tank and even sweep with Swords Dance and Earthquake/Seed Bomb/Outrage/Body Slam/Return (take your pick). Synthesis even gives her some staying power which Jaroda does not have.


    who is the better pokemon? still and will always be, Jaroda

    That's your opinion and I have no right to contradict it, but I can show you how half of your arguments are factually erroneous.
    Again, comments in bold.
    Last edited by Grass Type Warrior; 8th October 2010 at 10:09 AM.
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  4. #19
    Registered User Buizelfan!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy View Post
    Again, comments in bold.
    My turn
    I wonder why Meganium is in the NEVER USED tier? Food for thought there...

    Meganium is not for walling at all, as I have proven with all its weaknesses. Jaroda too can't be an effective wall, but it can be a decent sweeper - something Meganium simply can't do because it is way too slow.

    Meganium helping other pokemon? Let's look at battle with other pokemon for a second. Firstly, it is probably going to attack second because of its 'below average' speed. One super effective hit and goodbye Meganium. Meanwhile, the faster Jaroda would have a better chance of being successful here because it can use the same movepool, but have the advantage of attacking first.


    So, good to know that you have something against effeminete Pokemon? Oh its not just me, because again I really wonder why the almighty Meganium is in the NEVER USED tier.

    The battle being a draw? A physical sweeper Jaroda will easily beat a support Meganium if you substitute the physical sweeper Sceptile stats into Jaroda, if this situation doesn't happen, it will be a draw and the events of the paragraph before will take place...

    Sweeper vs. Sweeper? Jaroda would win. Consider that to increase Meganium's speed and special/attack that his defence stat would have to be poor. This is were gold ol' Aerial Ace pwns Meganium :P

    So let me summarise:

    vs. other pokemon - Jaroda is better
    vs. each other (sweeper vs. support) Jaroda
    Vs. each other (wall vs. wall) Draw (i'll give you this)
    vs. each other (sweeper vs. sweeper) Jaroda

  5. #20
    Get those Devil Horns up Magmortar123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Jaroda is way better :P
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  6. #21
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Jaroda, by a long shot. Meganium has always been the starter that I hated the most, so it's not too hard of a choice. Jaroda is an awesome snake while Meganium is a... flower dinosaur?
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  7. #22
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Quote Originally Posted by Buizelfan View Post
    My turn
    I wonder why Meganium is in the NEVER USED tier? Food for thought there...

    You want to know why Meganium's in the Never Used tier? Really? I've asked this myself several times. I've also brought it up a few times at the Smogon forums. The answer given, clear as day and simple as fact, is that Venusaur outclasses her. It's not that she performs poorly in battle, it's that Venusaur performs better. The reason she's NU is probably more to do with Venusaur's subpar performance (not good enough to get into OU) than her own. Even then, Venusaur's tiering has been the subject of much debate and he was nominated for BL several times. The concensus seems to be that if Venusaur was ever banned from UU, Meganium would likely rise to the tier (putting her in the same tier as the other Grass Starters).


    Meganium is not for walling at all, as I have proven with all its weaknesses. Jaroda too can't be an effective wall, but it can be a decent sweeper - something Meganium simply can't do because it is way too slow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buizelfan View Post
    Who's more useful? Jaroda. Would make a good wall
    Can I point out the hypocrisy?

    Meganium is, for the last time, not "way too slow" to sweep. Tons of slower Pokemon are better sweepers than Jaroda will ever hope to be. Again I list examples: Tyranitar, Metagross, Dragonite, Blaziken, Feraligatr, Empoleon, Torterra. Her speed is not the issue.


    Meganium helping other pokemon? Let's look at battle with other pokemon for a second. Firstly, it is probably going to attack second because of its 'below average' speed. One super effective hit and goodbye Meganium. Meanwhile, the faster Jaroda would have a better chance of being successful here because it can use the same movepool, but have the advantage of attacking first.

    When I say Meganium helps other Pokemon, I mean it in a support role. You have your big bad sweeper burned, your lead paralyzed and your tank poisoned. In comes Meganium, uses Aromatherapy and bam, your team's back in optimal condition. Throw Safeguard in there so they simply can't status your team, or the Screens to buff up your team's defenses and I'd say you've got yourself a solid team player here. Of these, the only thing Jaroda can do is screens and, due to his lower bulk, he probably wants to use Coil/Calm Mind anyway (of course, if he does, he misses out on Perversity). Jaroda's not built for team support. He's built for walling/sweeping, neither of which he particularly excells at, btw.

    So, good to know that you have something against effeminete Pokemon? Oh its not just me, because again I really wonder why the almighty Meganium is in the NEVER USED tier.

    Oh, and her physical appearance has nothing to do with her tier placement. You think that if she had Arceus' stats and Mew's movepool, people wouldn't use her just because she looks effeminate? As I've stated, Venusaur outclassing her is the reason Meganium's NU. Nothing else.

    Second, I do not think Meganium is "All mighty". I think she's a good Pokemon and I'm tired of people simply thinking she's useless. She's got her problems (typing and bad movepool) and she's nowhere near good enough to be OU, but she's not, by any means or stretch of the imagination, "useless".


    The battle being a draw? A physical sweeper Jaroda will easily beat a support Meganium if you substitute the physical sweeper Sceptile stats into Jaroda, if this situation doesn't happen, it will be a draw and the events of the paragraph before will take place...

    See, here's something I don't get because I think I'm not understanding you. If you substitute Sceptile's sweeping stats to Jaroda then sweeping Jaroda defeats Meganium. Wouldn't that just mean that Sceptile defeated Meganium? Jaroda is Jaroda, if you trade his stats for that of another Pokemon, he stops being Jaroda. Also, this works both ways. Trade Jaroda's stats for Sceptile but also Meganium's for Salamence. Bam, Meganium wins, even if all she's got is Outrage/Return/Body Slam to hit Jaroda with.

    Sweeper vs. Sweeper? Jaroda would win. Consider that to increase Meganium's speed and special/attack that his defence stat would have to be poor. This is were gold ol' Aerial Ace pwns Meganium :P

    I'm inclined to agree that sweeping Jaroda may defeat sweeping Meganium, but Meganium's higher Attack stat makes her arguably the better sweeper of the two. Access to Body Slam helps as well since she can overcome her "slow speed" by paralyzing the opponent while she damagaes him. Physical sweeper Jaroda won't use Glare so the advantage is Meganium's in this department. Oh, and you're not going to keep Meganium OR Jaroda in on predicted "super effective hits", regardless of their speed. It doesn't matter that Jaroda will attack first, if it's going to get nailed in the face by an Overheat or an Ice Beam, any decent trainer is simply going to switch out.

    Lastly, in a fight, her HP Fire/Ice/Poison/Bug/Flying will hit harder than his Aereal Ace (and his own HP, for that matter). She has the better attacking stats, you see. And if Jaroda wants to sweep, he too has to deplete his bulk considerably to buff up his offenses. Even then, he still wouldn't hit very hard. Meganium would still hit harder than his unboosted attacks and to boost them, he'd have to waste a turn which she can use to attack him. Also, it's not uncommon for sweeping Meganium to have Synthesis, so she would be able to heal.


    So let me summarise:

    vs. other pokemon - Jaroda is better
    vs. each other (sweeper vs. support) Jaroda
    Vs. each other (wall vs. wall) Draw (i'll give you this)
    vs. each other (sweeper vs. sweeper) Jaroda
    Before I begin, I'd like to say one thing:

    I'm liking this a lot. It's been a while since I've had a good debate in these forums.

    PS: Whew, long post is long.
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  8. #23
    Devil Lobster Man Ranger Jack Walker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Why don't you two just battle it out in a simulator or such. :p

    But the debate is enjoyable to read.

    I prefer Jaroda for the looks but Meganium is the better battler of the two. Perversity is wasted on Jaroda. Sceptile should have gotten it instead. But then it would be way too broken and that explains why Pokemon with subpar stats get it. Shuckle can't use it at all and Spinda is a joke. Jaroda might be able to use it to some extent.

  9. #24
    Registered User Articwolf10's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy View Post
    Before I begin, I'd like to say one thing:

    I'm liking this a lot. It's been a while since I've had a good debate in these forums.

    PS: Whew, long post is long.
    Deplete his bulk? NO he won't Coil/Calm-Mind RAISES both Defese and Offense and Meganium can never be a sweeper as her speed sucks. You have to be a fast to be a sweeper last I heard.

    Jaroda is far more versitile Being able to be a sweeper/wall on both sides of the spectrum and if he gets low health use Rest/Lum Berry combo. And I seen her stats (Wow only 5 higher than Jaroda) Plus Meganium doesn't learn any Flying or Poison type move (Except for Toxic) and the only bug move she learns is fury cutter. SO no she ca't really hit Jaroda SE unless you have Furry-Cutter on your move-pool.

    Arial Ace is a good move low power but it never misses while Fury-Cutter can (95% accracy great but again Arial ace is 100% accracy) Okay she learns Poison Power as well)

    And his stats aren't sub-par just because he can't outright hit doersn't make him useless (Okay that stands for Meganium as well) At least he can learn Coil/Calm-Mind to raise his stats

  10. #25
    Devil Lobster Man Ranger Jack Walker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Metagross, Tyranitar, venusaur, Blaziken. All are slow. All are dangerous sweepers.

    And Meganium can raise his stats with Swords Dance. He has a higher attack stat and would cause more damage with things like Body Slam.

  11. #26
    Ur 2 Slow!! Sanic Hegehog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Voted for Jaroda because it has better stat distribution overall, learns moves that Meganium doesn't have, and looks cooler.

    Heres the part where I get flamed.

  12. #27
    Registered User Articwolf10's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker View Post
    Metagross, Tyranitar, venusaur, Blaziken. All are slow. All are dangerous sweepers.

    And Meganium can raise his stats with Swords Dance. He has a higher attack stat and would cause more damage with things like Body Slam.
    Yeah but thats her only stat raising move and it only raises attack. JAroda cna learn both Coil and Calm-Mind which raises two stats (Coil Raising 3) though only by one level any higher and it would be broken but Jaroda is better on the Special Edge as Meganium doesn't learn any moves that Raises SATK. MEganium is a good wall but that's about it. JAroda can be a Sweeper/Wall on both the Phsical side and the Special side

  13. #28
    Formerly GTT Grass Type Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Meganium gets Hidden Power. Hidden Power can hit as Flying, Fire, Bug, Poison and Ice type moves. There's her SE attack agaisnt Jaroda.
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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    I haven't really got into competitive battling (yet!) so based on looks and move pool, jaroda (I know, I know, I'm a total N00b), but still, I just think jaroda is awesome!

    Thanks to King of Jesus (Neodark) for the banner!

  15. #30
    Registered User Buizelfan!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Meganium vs Jaroda

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy View Post
    Before I begin, I'd like to say one thing:

    I'm liking this a lot. It's been a while since I've had a good debate in these forums.

    PS: Whew, long post is long.
    Me too,

    If you substitute Sceptile's sweeping stats to Jaroda then sweeping Jaroda defeats Meganium. Wouldn't that just mean that Sceptile defeated Meganium? I used Sceptile as an example because its attack stats are similar to Jaroda, and as we don't have an information on a fully ev trained Jaroda, this is the most accurate comparision

    Meganium gets Hidden Power? So does Jaroda, who also gets Aerial Ace and sure, Meganium will have a higher attack, but the point is, Jaroda is faster. Combine that with a poor defense to compensate a high attack and Meganium is screwed. So again, sweeper Jaroda is better than sweeper Meganium

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