Empoleon vs Serperior - Page 2

View Poll Results: Empoleon or Serperior?

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  • Empoleon

    40 48.19%
  • Serperior

    43 51.81%
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Thread: Empoleon vs Serperior

  1. #16
    Loch Ness Monster Zwampert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Jalorda. I never took a liking to Empoleon.

  2. #17
    Something for nothing Cyber Jet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    All empoleon has to do is fire his ice beam and jalorda and his smug snake ass it dead

  3. #18
    Registered User Buizelfan!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Empoleon easily!

  4. #19
    Registered User To lazy to think one's Avatar
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    I'll go with Empoleon, as it resists Jaroda's attacks and can KO it out with Ice Beam

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Quote Originally Posted by winstein View Post
    You are right. Empoleon has good Special Attack. I may not be a battler like you, but assuming damage calculations are the same from Generation 4, I found out that unless Empoleon's Special Attack increases (or Jaroda's Special Defence decreases), a 1 hit KO won't happen unless it's a critical hit, and because Empoleon is generally slower (he needs one turn to speed up), Jaroda has 2 chances to KO Empoleon before Empoleon does. I wouldn't have said this if I didn't check.

    I know you have more experience in battle that me, so you can always prove me wrong with experience, the only thing you have that I don't have.

    Thanks for reading.
    I going to have to go with this guy. If Jalorda invests in Sp. Defense and Sp. Attack, its able to survive one of Empoleons Ice Beams and 2HKO it with Perversity Leaf Storm. At least, I think that would happen.

    Besides, Jalorda actually has a good design.

  6. #21
    Surprise! winstein's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSeaking View Post
    I going to have to go with this guy. If Jalorda invests in Sp. Defense and Sp. Attack, its able to survive one of Empoleons Ice Beams and 2HKO it with Perversity Leaf Storm. At least, I think that would happen.
    Yeah. It's odd that people are giving Empoleon the benefit of credit here just because of his access to Ice Beam. If you are wondering, the calculations I got are as follows:

    Modest (+SpAtk/-Atk) Empoleon's Ice Beam with 252 SpAtk EVs -> Neutral Jaroda uninvested = 73.5% - 86.6%
    Modest (+SpAtk/-Atk) Empoleon's Ice Beam with 252 SpAtk EVs -> Calm (+SpDef/-Atk) Jaroda with 252 HP & 252 SpDef = 42.9% - 50.8%
    From the calculations, we can see that some people are overestimating Empoleon's offence, as unless Empoleon increases his Special Attack or switches to Blizzard, more damage is dealt. Of course, the attack is very hefty, so the second question comes in: who's faster? Empoleon's Base Speed is 60, and Jaroda's is 113. That's obvious, isn't it? Jaroda gets 2 attacks against Empoleon's 1. Let's see how much Jaroda does with Leaf Storm (assuming Perversity is on):

    Calm (+SpDef/-Atk) Jaroda's Leaf Storm with 252 SpAtk EVs -> Neutral Empoleon uninvested = 51.5% - 60.5% (+2 = 101.9% - 120.4%)
    Calm (+SpDef/-Atk) Jaroda's Leaf Storm with 252 SpAtk EVs -> Calm (+SpDef/-Atk) Empoleon with 252 HP & 252 SpDef = 30.6% - 36.3% (+2 = 60.8% - 71.8%)

    (For the same Empoleon who tries to KO Jaroda...)
    Calm (+SpDef/-Atk) Jaroda's Leaf Storm with 252 SpAtk EVs -> Modest (+SpAtk/-Atk) Empoleon's Ice Beam with 252 HP & 4 SpA = 42.2% - 50% (+2 = 84.1% - 99.5%)
    In this cases, Empoleon had a fair (not guaranteed) shot in winning the fight if he maxes his defences and if he's packed Choice Specs (Life Orb doesn't count because he would lose). But the same offensive Empoleon trying to take Jaroda down would lose for sure. Empoleon would then had to rely on luck to win, which are Leaf Storm misses, critical hits and Ice Beam freezing.

    That was why I think Jaroda had the advantage in a fight against Empoleon, because of Speed and powerful Leaf Storms. It would probably not be the same case if Blizzard is used, but since no one says Blizzard, my point stands that Ice Beam is not enough to take on Jaroda.

    Thanks for reading.

  7. #22
    OBEYMYGOD GoldenrodGOD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Hello? Bird Pokemon against Grass-Type Pokemon? Water/Steel-Type that can learn Ice-Type moves against a Grass-Type?
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  8. #23
    The Creeping Darkness Tsuness's Avatar
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    I hate Empoleon with a burning passion, and Tsutarja is one of the two grass types that I respect enough to use. Thus Jaroda is my vote.
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  9. #24
    Registered User S. Seagrave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Empoleon, if only because of the Napoleon name similarity.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Looks-wise, I definitely prefer Empoleon. Don't much like Tsutarja's final evolution, as awesome as its two previous forms are.
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  11. #26
    Mystery in another region Koukoubean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    I like Empoleon more, both for design, movepool (it can even learn Signal Beam which mops up any Psychic or Dark out thar) and personal atachment, since it was my first starter.
    But Jaroda/Jalorda doesn't fall behind too much, it's just some steps.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenrodGirl~ View Post
    Hello? Bird Pokemon against Grass-Type Pokemon? Water/Steel-Type that can learn Ice-Type moves against a Grass-Type?
    Typing is at times important, but isn't all there is to these kind of things. Winstein's previous posts show that Jaroda's stats can make him a likely winner.

    So, in a battle between the two, Jaroda would probably win, but otherwise, I like Empoleon slightly better...

    Thanks to King of Jesus (Neodark) for the banner!

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Smuglord looks cooler, so I'm gonna go with him.

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  14. #29
    Registered User Ivysaur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Empoleon is more useful (much more useful), but I prefer Jaroda's design.

    I went with Jaroda.
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  15. #30
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    Default Re: Empoleon vs Jalorda

    Quote Originally Posted by winstein View Post
    Yeah. It's odd that people are giving Empoleon the benefit of credit here just because of his access to Ice Beam. If you are wondering, the calculations I got are as follows:



    From the calculations, we can see that some people are overestimating Empoleon's offence, as unless Empoleon increases his Special Attack or switches to Blizzard, more damage is dealt. Of course, the attack is very hefty, so the second question comes in: who's faster? Empoleon's Base Speed is 60, and Jaroda's is 113. That's obvious, isn't it? Jaroda gets 2 attacks against Empoleon's 1. Let's see how much Jaroda does with Leaf Storm (assuming Perversity is on):



    In this cases, Empoleon had a fair (not guaranteed) shot in winning the fight if he maxes his defences and if he's packed Choice Specs (Life Orb doesn't count because he would lose). But the same offensive Empoleon trying to take Jaroda down would lose for sure. Empoleon would then had to rely on luck to win, which are Leaf Storm misses, critical hits and Ice Beam freezing.

    That was why I think Jaroda had the advantage in a fight against Empoleon, because of Speed and powerful Leaf Storms. It would probably not be the same case if Blizzard is used, but since no one says Blizzard, my point stands that [U]Ice Beam is not enough to take on Jaroda[/U].

    Thanks for reading.
    what about avalanche? Avalanche's base power double after getting hit. Is base power would go form 60 to 120, although the Royal Bird does lose a bit with physical attack rather then a Special Attack.

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